Front vs. mid engine - the design

Front vs. mid engine - the design

Author
Discussion

optimal909

Original Poster:

194 posts

100 months

Wednesday 20th May
quotequote all
I'm sure this horse has already beaten dead and I don't want to open a can of worms, just interested in the popular opinion on the subject below it has been downvoted to oblivion on Reddit Cars (I should have known better).

I tried to make a point that to me front engine Vettes are more special than C8 for the reason that push-rod V8 allows a lower hood and waistline, therefore uniquely beautiful proportions that has been lost with C8, as IMHO design wise it is nothing special vs. other MR cars.
Perhaps I made a mistake not explaining that push-rod V8s are not as tall as regular OHC engines...

I know Corvette's performance has reached the very limits what an FR chassis allows, I don't question that part. I just happen to think that with C8 the automotive world lost its best looking front engine GT.

Is it really such a misguided opinion?

irocfan

23,922 posts

146 months

Wednesday 20th May
quotequote all
not in the slightest. I agree with you

Venturist

3,047 posts

151 months

Wednesday 20th May
quotequote all
I agree too - I’ve got lots of bugbears with the C8 design, lots of funny little bits that don’t add anything and lead the eye in unflattering ways... but it does sadden me that it’s lost it’s USP of front-mounted big engine with low bonnet line. I’d never considered the engine height before but you’re right, and the mid engine layout doesn’t allow exploitation of it. Personally I’ve no interest in another generic mid engine supercar, but I concede it is expanding that sector and democratising that layout a bit like the early cars did with sports cars in general.

budgie smuggler

4,113 posts

115 months

Wednesday 20th May
quotequote all
I hate reddit for this. Doesn't matter if you're right or wrong, if your comment doesn't meet the approval of the 'hive mind' it's getting downvoted and therefore disappears.

emperorburger

637 posts

22 months

Wednesday 20th May
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Personally, I think they nailed it with the latest model.

roscobbc

1,074 posts

198 months

Wednesday 20th May
quotequote all
With every marque of Vette from C1 though C7 there have been (at the time of introduction) controversial changes to the design of the car. Each marque has generally brought about improvements in comfort, handling or appearance and perhaps critically commented on at the time of introduction - a mid engine Vette is a natural evolution of this - in a few years when we see the 1000hp+ hybrid versions we'll still be debating it...........

UTH

646 posts

134 months

Thursday 21st May
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I also agree. I am the very proud owner of a C7 Z06 and I think it's a fantastic looking car, not to mention how it drives etc. The C8 at first glance just looks rather generic, before you look too closely you feel you could be looking at a number of different car brands' latest offering, whereas the C7 I don't think you can be left it much doubt as to what you're looking at.

unsprung

4,682 posts

80 months

Thursday 21st May
quotequote all

Even the engineers and designers who developed the C8 might agree with you, OP.

On the other hand, the pivot to a mid-engined layout has resulted in a product that appeals to a much younger buyer. Younger and more numerous than buyers of the C6 and C7. The value-for-money premise of Corvette has a disruptive potential in that gap where front-engined performance cars blend into mid-engined super cars.

This was Chevrolet's plan. And it appears to be working a treat, if we are to believe the significant demand reported in the C8's domestic market.



Edited by unsprung on Friday 22 May 05:28

emperorburger

637 posts

22 months

Friday 22nd May
quotequote all
roscobbc said:
With every marque of Vette from C1 though C7 there have been (at the time of introduction) controversial changes to the design of the car. Each marque has generally brought about improvements in comfort, handling or appearance and perhaps critically commented on at the time of introduction - a mid engine Vette is a natural evolution of this - in a few years when we see the 1000hp+ hybrid versions we'll still be debating it...........
Well said.

Artill

10 posts

163 months

Friday 22nd May
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Another here who prefers the front engined look. I have a C7 convertible, and thats another area the C8 doesnt really work. Although the convertible C8 somehow looks better than the regular coupe to my eyes, roof down it doesnt look to give the same open air experience or earlier soft top Corvettes. I also think its a shame they have finally given up on the manual, although i do understand why.


chris lake

50 posts

27 months

Sunday 24th May
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the c8 design was forced on gm due to the c7 being outlawed on emmissions in europe , the c7 does not pass euro 6 but most importantly because the c7 was being bop,d out of competetiveness in imsa and le mans racing,ironically the c8 has only raced twice and was bop,d before it even ran at daytona and cota, the c8 will grow on people but for now the C7 zr-1 , has a better look

unsprung

4,682 posts

80 months

Wednesday 27th May
quotequote all

chris lake said:
the c8 design was forced on gm due to the c7 being outlawed on emmissions in europe ,
That's false.

It's remarkable, your great enthusiasm for posting porkie pies here on Pistonheads.

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...



roscobbc

1,074 posts

198 months

Wednesday 27th May
quotequote all
Irrespective of front engine C8 not meeting European emissions (and why would front/mid engine make any difference) why would GM concern themselves too much about a relatively small 'fringe' market like Europe. However looking in to the future 'Globally' (and rhd/lhd markets specifically) perhaps Ford have shown GM the potential of alternative markets for USA manufactured products (as indeed HD have with motorcycles over the last couple of decades) With the ever increasing (and expensive) performance versions of the Corvette competing comfortably with other European performance cars perhaps GM will need to become better established.........

chris lake

50 posts

27 months

Wednesday 27th May
quotequote all
unsprung said:
That's false.

It's remarkable, your great enthusiasm for posting porkie pies here on Pistonheads.

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
this post is over a year old,i didnt write it but its common knowledge the old pushrod engine would struggle on emmissions,the C7 IS 279G/KM, I DIDNT WRITE THIS POST UNSPRUNG SO DONT SHOOT THE MESSENGER, chevrolet wouldnt have introduced the c8 in rhd if they didnt care about "little old europe sales" they are obviously following fords lead with the mustang, i dont really give a hoot about the road cars,more intrested in the IMSA/LE MANS programme. you could give away a page 3 model with any new corvette but the dealers ian allen although a superb service is not very inviting place at a time when the C8 could capitalise on mclarens downturn especially at the bargain price shame the £ will take a hit from the $ though

irocfan

23,922 posts

146 months

Wednesday 27th May
quotequote all
chris lake said:
unsprung said:
That's false.

It's remarkable, your great enthusiasm for posting porkie pies here on Pistonheads.

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
this post is over a year old,i didnt write it but its common knowledge the old pushrod engine would struggle on emmissions,the C7 IS 279G/KM, I DIDNT WRITE THIS POST UNSPRUNG SO DONT SHOOT THE MESSENGER, chevrolet wouldnt have introduced the c8 in rhd if they didnt care about "little old europe sales" they are obviously following fords lead with the mustang, i dont really give a hoot about the road cars,more intrested in the IMSA/LE MANS programme. you could give away a page 3 model with any new corvette but the dealers ian allen although a superb service is not very inviting place at a time when the C8 could capitalise on mclarens downturn especially at the bargain price shame the £ will take a hit from the $ though
not wanting to have it tested is not the same as saying it failed. Quite probably, given the 8 was on the way, it just wasn't worth the ball-ache to get it certified for less than a year's worth of possible sales

Venturist

3,047 posts

151 months

Wednesday 27th May
quotequote all
irocfan said:
not wanting to have it tested is not the same as saying it failed. Quite probably, given the 8 was on the way, it just wasn't worth the ball-ache to get it certified for less than a year's worth of possible sales
I think exactly this. Manufacturers make this sort of decision all the time.

Artill

10 posts

163 months

Wednesday 27th May
quotequote all
I believe the problem was the direct injection, which produces more particulates that indirect injection, and why most (all?) petrol engines in the EU now have a particulate filter on them. I think with the small numbers of Corvettes and Camaros sold in the EU, Chevy didnt want to spend the money making the cars meet the EU requirements. I suspect they have engineered the particulate filters into the C8 from outset.

unsprung

4,682 posts

80 months

Wednesday 27th May
quotequote all

chris lake said:
this post is over a year old,i didnt write it but its common knowledge the old pushrod engine would struggle on emmissions,the C7 IS 279G/KM, I DIDNT WRITE THIS POST UNSPRUNG SO DONT SHOOT THE MESSENGER, chevrolet wouldnt have introduced the c8 in rhd if they didnt care about "little old europe sales" they are obviously following fords lead with the mustang, i dont really give a hoot about the road cars,more intrested in the IMSA/LE MANS programme. you could give away a page 3 model with any new corvette but the dealers ian allen although a superb service is not very inviting place at a time when the C8 could capitalise on mclarens downturn especially at the bargain price shame the £ will take a hit from the $ though
We know from published reports that Chevrolet had looked into going to the mid-engined format with the C7, but that the GFC made this unsustainable. This was no mere continuation of the "Corvette should yet again think about being mid-engined," but a genuine effort.

We also know that Chevrolet were not "forced" -- as you say -- into this decision, but chose it, freely, so as to take its value-for-money USP into exotic car territory. All of this was long before current emissions requirements.

Lastly, but by no means least, we know that Corvette sales in Europe are a tiny number, an arguably inconsequential number, and that Chevrolet seeks not volume in Europe, but legitimacy.

A great percentage of your comments here on PH are de facto lies. It's important that you own up to that.