The Quaife BDA on Collecting Cars this evening

The Quaife BDA on Collecting Cars this evening

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BertBert

Original Poster:

14,875 posts

175 months

Wednesday 3rd February
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Was anyone else watching the special BDA powered Quaife special on Collecting Cars this evening?
https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/1996-caterham-...
Very interesting one with the Freestyle stuff on... inboard front dampers plus super wide track.

I'm not a fan of the sequential, but looked a great car. Really love the idea of the the 1800 BDA!

Bert

generationx

3,611 posts

69 months

Thursday 4th February
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Blimey I didn't think Mike would ever sell this.

The sequential really suits the Caterham by the way.

BertBert

Original Poster:

14,875 posts

175 months

Thursday 4th February
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I think it got bid to about 32.5k and didn't meet reserve. Really hard car to value I reckon.

I definitely didn't enjoy my time driving a quaife sequentialled Caterham, but that's just personal taste!

Bert

generationx

3,611 posts

69 months

Thursday 4th February
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Yes with so many changes it really is a one-off. And lovely in the flesh too. A well-built BDA on its own is a fair chunk of change, as is the sequential, never mind the bespoke suspension, carbon bits etc.

To be fair I've only ever driven sequential Caterhams, generally Quaife's demonstrator (I used to work there). I have stupid size 12 feet which aren't particularly compatible with small footwells and closely-spaced pedals so I had to drive them without shoes on, so the less clutch action I had to use the better. Plus I'm used to driving competition cars so for me a sequential is much more "normal". They do require a very positive approach to get the best out of them though.

darreni

2,787 posts

234 months

Thursday 4th February
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It's a lovely thing, i'd buy it in a heartbeat. Just perfect.

There has to be £15k+ of engine alone?

BertBert

Original Poster:

14,875 posts

175 months

Thursday 4th February
quotequote all
generationx said:
Yes with so many changes it really is a one-off. And lovely in the flesh too. A well-built BDA on its own is a fair chunk of change, as is the sequential, never mind the bespoke suspension, carbon bits etc.

To be fair I've only ever driven sequential Caterhams, generally Quaife's demonstrator (I used to work there). I have stupid size 12 feet which aren't particularly compatible with small footwells and closely-spaced pedals so I had to drive them without shoes on, so the less clutch action I had to use the better. Plus I'm used to driving competition cars so for me a sequential is much more "normal". They do require a very positive approach to get the best out of them though.
Yes, much happier in race cars with sequential boxes than road cars, but as you say it's what you get used to and like!

The trouble with a car like this from a market point of view is whether the sum of the very expensive (and individually valuable) parts adds up to what the car is. If he reserve is 35k plus the 6%, that make's it a £37k car for a buyer. That is not far off used 620R territory from GP Sevens (from a quick look in the ads).
Bert

andy97

4,147 posts

186 months

Thursday 4th February
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generationx said:
Yes with so many changes it really is a one-off. And lovely in the flesh too. A well-built BDA on its own is a fair chunk of change, as is the sequential, never mind the bespoke suspension, carbon bits etc.

To be fair I've only ever driven sequential Caterhams, generally Quaife's demonstrator (I used to work there). I have stupid size 12 feet which aren't particularly compatible with small footwells and closely-spaced pedals so I had to drive them without shoes on, so the less clutch action I had to use the better. Plus I'm used to driving competition cars so for me a sequential is much more "normal". They do require a very positive approach to get the best out of them though.
Quite possibly £20k worth of BDA and £10k worth of gearbox on their own?

The trouble is that it is such a unique spec and the sequential box makes it very track focused, and yet in many ways it doesn’t look like a track car (no roll cage, 15 inch wheels etc). The BDA will need looking after carefully too. More £.
In many ways, I am not surprised it didn’t sell. Might make more money if the engine and box were sold separately from the chassis?

Edited by andy97 on Thursday 4th February 13:02

BertBert

Original Poster:

14,875 posts

175 months

Thursday 4th February
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I quite fancied a variant of the theme, which crossed my mind briefly...change the motor for a very standard duratec and the box for a sensible ford 5 speed or even a caterham 6 speed. But dismissed it as a silly idea. Or even just change the box, But you can't buy a caterham from Mr Q and immediately swap the box out, sacrilege!

Or even a trusty k-series and 6 speeder!

braddo

7,495 posts

152 months

Thursday 4th February
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That's a cool car. Maybe if the listing included a video with the sound of the shrieking BDA and Weber induction it would have reached reserve. biggrin

I'd change to a conventional manual box, throw on a trackday/FIA rollbar and be satisfied there's still a Q on the diff. driving

BertBert

Original Poster:

14,875 posts

175 months

Thursday 4th February
quotequote all
andy97 said:
Quite possibly £20k worth of BDA and £10k worth of gearbox on their own?
I don't know that they are. I don't think it's a real BDA and I don't think at 1800 it'll work for the historic guys. It may have cost £20k but would someone pay you 20k for it? I know less about the box, but I don't think it's worth £10k.

Don't get me wrong I'd love a Caterham with that motor in it. But I'm just too much of a cheapskate!

ChrisW.

3,951 posts

219 months

Saturday 6th February
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I always thought that BDA was 1600cc, BDR 1800 and BDG 2000 ?

andy97

4,147 posts

186 months

Sunday 7th February
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ChrisW. said:
I always thought that BDA was 1600cc, BDR 1800 and BDG 2000 ?
Much more complicated than that. I think most variants are just generically known as the BDA or BDG but there was loads of different version from A to T although I don’t think there was a version for every letter of the alphabet in between! Some had cast iron blocks and some had alloy.
I don’t think it’s helped by the fact that many rally Mk1 Ford Escort RS1600s actually had a 1700cc engine and many rally Mk2 Escort RS1800s had 2 litre engines!

Off the top off my head, BDA was 1601, BDE was 1833, BDR was 1700, BDM was 1598 (for Formula Atlantic) and the BDT was turbocharged, and I think the BDR was developed specifically for the original Caterham HPC but might be wrong.

ETA: a quick google gives this: https://historicmotorsportcentral.com/2014/04/16/t...



Edited by andy97 on Sunday 7th February 08:28

rossb

583 posts

185 months

Thursday 11th February
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I have had an alloy injected 2.0 BDG Caterham 7 with a quaife type 9 box for nearly 20 years. It is used as a track hack - in fact we did 3 events over 10 days - 2 at Donington GP and one at Brands GP just before lockdown in December and one glorious day at Goodwood in the summer. It was actually built as a factory BDR - with the standard 1700 engine which was supposedly good for 170 bhp. The BDG with comparatively flexible L1 cams is good for about 240 - maybe a little more - and is a completely different animal - albeit still friendly to drive on track. It is like comparing a standard cooking rs1600 escort with a full spec race alloy BD mk1 escort - have one of those too (BD addiction!)

The challenge I think with the car which was auctioned is that the main market for "collector" types is that they tend to only really want completely standard cars and are clueless as to what mods actually do to the driving experience of the car. There is also a load of bks spouted about reliability of BD engines - touch wood - mine has been really reliable after loads of track miles - which admittedly less demanding than race use - but it was last rebuilt by Terry Hoyle who knows a little bit about these engines and it is always warmed up and has regular oil changes. The engines are expensive - but cheaper to maintain these days due to extensive parts supply and partly because full race BD's end up being used in much more exotic competition cars than Caterham's so command a premium. There is not much detail on what spec the engine in the auction car is either. If you really want a BD you know that a full race spec BD is a valuable motor which is expensive to build/valuable commodity - but if it is mildly modified - many modern more production orientated engines produce more beans at far less cost. The car also has 15" wheels - I have 13" Dymags on mine - which are much more suited to track use. Sequential box is cool - especially with the manufacturer provenance - but really an acquired taste on the road even for a hardcore enthusiast. Then you have got the issue that if it registered new in 1996 - assume it was not a factory BDR - think they stopped in 1995 and surely this would have been profiled? Chassis replacement is good - mine is original and probably would benefit from replacement - which means a costly rebuild in the future. Freestyle wide track on this car is also good news.

I think it is a lovely car and if £35k would be the number to buy - it would not be close to build cost - but it is a finite market for modified 7's - and if the bid was real at £32k it is probably where it is. If you want a track 7 you could achieve a similar lap time for much less money if BD is of no relevance to you.

My car has now been modified with a big cage because it is only used on track - it is road registered but is a faff to use on the road getting in an out of it/paddle clutch etc and with no irony - if it had a cooking standard 1700 BDR + removal of full cage it would be worth much more as it would have a much wider appeal. It would also not nearly be as much fun to drive. The sound of a full race BD at full chat when it comes on cam is motivation to get up early and arrive at a freezing cold winter track day. I have had loads of other track cars which have come and gone over the years - but the 7 has now has generated so many fun memories that I don't imagine that I would ever sell it.

One irrefutable fact is that when you run a modify a roadcar like a 7 to be a thrill on track - you gradually reduce its appeal as a road car and the potential market - commensurately almost reducing its value by how much you spend making it more extreme - 'twas ever thus and probably the dilemma Mr Quaife knows all too well creating his singular vision of a high spec exotic 7.

Edited by rossb on Thursday 11th February 18:20

BertBert

Original Poster:

14,875 posts

175 months

Friday 12th February
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Sounds like an epic track car!

rossb

583 posts

185 months

Saturday 13th February
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BertBert said:
Sounds like an epic track car!
Yes its great fun thanks - but lets face it any 7 is fun on track and due to lightweight - so much cheaper to run than heavier tackle to run on trackdays in respect of tyres and brakes etc

BertBert

Original Poster:

14,875 posts

175 months

Saturday 13th February
quotequote all
rossb said:
BertBert said:
Sounds like an epic track car!
Yes its great fun thanks - but lets face it any 7 is fun on track and due to lightweight - so much cheaper to run than heavier tackle to run on trackdays in respect of tyres and brakes etc
Very true, all mine have been fab on track from 130bhp to 230bhp!