Why no 620R’s for sale?

[griffchris]

I’ve only been looking for a couple of weeks but I don’t think I’ve seen a single one come up for sale (maybe an SV but not an S3), despite there being 141 Caterhams for sale on PH, including a handful of 620s’s.

It used to be said that lots of people bought them new, quickly got scared by the power/sequential and put them up for sale. Is it the case that they’ve now made their way to more “suitable” owners who plan to keep them?

Chris

[agatebox]

My equivalent 620R configuration would cost north of £71k to buy today due to a series of relatively high price rises in recent years.
No way would I pay that sort of money for a Caterham and I’m guessing neither would a lot of other people, hence less used stock coming through

Edited by agatebox on Saturday 29th April 13:57

[griffchris]

The 12 month waiting list would suggest there’s no shortage of new orders being placed though, and all the new models are expensive, not just the 620.

[number2]

That's right.

I mentioned on the 'first caterham' post that used prices are going to be high when new prices are sky rocketing and demand is far outstripping ability to supply.

My lead time has recently been extended indefinitely due to there being no duratec engines available .

[Coolcatshaft]

number2 said:

That's right.

I mentioned on the 'first caterham' post that used prices are going to be high when new prices are sky rocketing and demand is far outstripping ability to supply.

My lead time has recently been extended indefinitely due to there being no duratec engines available .

What was your original allocated build week? I put down a deposit last May, was given a week 48 2022 build week, this has slipped consistently by a few weeks every few weeks!

Thankfully I got an email yesterday telling me my car has been released for production and is now "pending picking".

So was originally given a 9 month lead time but will end up being closer to 15 months by the time I get the car.

[number2]

Coolcatshaft said:

number2 said:

That's right.

I mentioned on the 'first caterham' post that used prices are going to be high when new prices are sky rocketing and demand is far outstripping ability to supply.

My lead time has recently been extended indefinitely due to there being no duratec engines available .

What was your original allocated build week? I put down a deposit last May, was given a week 48 2022 build week, this has slipped consistently by a few weeks every few weeks!

Thankfully I got an email yesterday telling me my car has been released for production and is now "pending picking".

So was originally given a 9 month lead time but will end up being closer to 15 months by the time I get the car.

You lucky bugger!

Can't recall the week number: 1st deposit August 2022 for factory build delivery end September 2023. Second deposit Feb 2023. Told a few weeks ago that they can't get any more engines (at the moment) so looks like you made the cut for the existing stock .

Was told 3 months delay but given they don't know when they'll get the engines, it's got to be at least 3 months .

[framerateuk]

number2 said:

That's right.

I mentioned on the 'first caterham' post that used prices are going to be high when new prices are sky rocketing and demand is far outstripping ability to supply.

It's quite interesting looking at prices. I'm seeing cars older than mine (with similar or lower specs), being sold for more than I paid (used) 10 years ago.

[Coolcatshaft]

number2 said:

You lucky bugger!

Can't recall the week number: 1st deposit August 2022 for factory build delivery end September 2023. Second deposit Feb 2023. Told a few weeks ago that they can't get any more engines (at the moment) so looks like you made the cut for the existing stock .

Was told 3 months delay but given they don't know when they'll get the engines, it's got to be at least 3 months .

Thanks, although I must admit I did not feel that lucky when the build slipped by 6 months over time, felt like a carrot on a stick! It sounds like yours will be about 15-16 months in total which is similar to what mine will end up as. I was told the most recent silp from week 15 go week 18 was due to the engine sourcing issue, so I hope for both our sake that they managed to resolve the supply issues. Where have you ordered yours from? Mines via Caterham Silverstone.

[number2]

Coolcatshaft said:

Thanks, although I must admit I did not feel that lucky when the build slipped by 6 months over time, felt like a carrot on a stick! It sounds like yours will be about 15-16 months in total which is similar to what mine will end up as. I was told the most recent silp from week 15 go week 18 was due to the engine sourcing issue, so I hope for both our sake that they managed to resolve the supply issues. Where have you ordered yours from? Mines via Caterham Silverstone.

Via Caterham Gatwick.

It's frustrating just hanging on indefinitely.

I'm rationalising it by telling myself that I'm only missing a Winter of what would be limited driving. Not quite true, but what can you do.

I don't quite understand why ford can't provide timeframes for numbers/supply, unless this is such a small silo of their business and is right down their priority list, that they aren't paying it any attention right now.

[Coolcatshaft]

number2 said:

Via Caterham Gatwick.

It's frustrating just hanging on indefinitely.

I'm rationalising it by telling myself that I'm only missing a Winter of what would be limited driving. Not quite true, but what can you do.

I don't quite understand why ford can't provide timeframes for numbers/supply, unless this is such a small silo of their business and is right down their priority list, that they aren't paying it any attention right now.

I think thats exactly it, from what I've heard Caterham are a relatively small customer for parts like engines and gearboxes, so without the larger buying clout often have issues getting reliable stock, this then gets passed down to us in the form of delays!

[BertBert]

Well if Caterham have to stop production pending availability, they will be in deep do do.

[BertBert]

Coolcatshaft said:

I think thats exactly it, from what I've heard Caterham are a relatively small customer for parts like engines and gearboxes, so without the larger buying clout often have issues getting reliable stock, this then gets passed down to us in the form of delays!

500 engines pet year maybe, pretty small beans for Ford!!

[Coolcatshaft]

BertBert said:

Well if Caterham have to stop production pending availability, they will be in deep do do.

Has happened before

https://www.lastsuperseven.co.uk/2022/05/delivery-...

I remember this chap posting on Blatchat saying there was a week or two where no cars were leaving the factory

[K800 RUM]

agatebox said:

My equivalent 620R configuration would cost north of £71k to buy today due to a series of relatively high price rises in recent years.
No way would I pay that sort of money for a Caterham and I’m guessing neither would a lot of other people, hence less used stock coming through

Edited by agatebox on Saturday 29th April 13:57

71 grand for a Caterham no matter how fast is simply crazy. Talk about squeezing as much money out of the brand as they can.

[Blue 7]

Figures like that make my head spin too!

I bought one of the last live axle kits in 2002 & it cost £14,000. The basic price before options was £11,500.

[number2]

Being devil's advocate, the cost of everything is through the roof, including cars in general, and I don't think Caterham have been making profits hand-over-fist.

Otherwise, yes, if we're being reductive they all look very expensive for 'a bit of steel frame, aluminium and a ford motor' .

[the av8er]

They are massively over priced !!!
There is one very easy way to get the price down to a more realistic value ......... STOP BUYING THEM !!!

[BertBert]

number2 said:

Being devil's advocate, the cost of everything is through the roof, including cars in general, and I don't think Caterham have been making profits hand-over-fist.

Otherwise, yes, if we're being reductive they all look very expensive for 'a bit of steel frame, aluminium and a ford motor' .

We've probably discussed this before, but caterham don't make a profit as they can't produce enough cars even at what looks like very high prices. If they had to pay their pay they'd have gone by now. It's only a series of beneficial owners that have enabled them keep going in the hope that profitability can some day be achieved.

Edited by BertBert on Wednesday 10th May 10:38

[number2]

BertBert said:

We've probably discussed this before, but caterham don't make a profit as they can't produce enough cars even at what looks like very high prices. If they had to pay their pay they'd have gone by now. It's only a series of beneficial owners that have enabled them keep going in the hope that profitability can some day be achieved.

Edited by BertBert on Wednesday 10th May 10:38

Quite right Bert. I tend to be non-committal when I don't have or can't recall the actual numbers, my point being they're not making hay even at these prices.

Hopefully with increased production things will improve for them. However, there are more and continuing challenges down the road, excuse the pun.

[Blue 7]

Yes, I understand the reasons for the price rises.

Obviously Caterham are having to fund their forthcoming electric car too. The figures do make my head spin, when viewed in comparison to what Caterham used to charge. But ultimately we should be thankful that Caterham are still in existence.