Plato kills the Mustang Gt 500 on Fifth Gear
Discussion
A number of points:
The GT500 has been widely slagged off but that's because Ford have cynically marketed it under the Shelby banner, built up hopes and done nothing to it of any substance bar a 6 speed box and bigger brakes to compensate for the vast increase in weight over the stock GT occasioned by the use of a cast iron engine. It weighs 300kgs more than a stock GT so the weight kills the performance hike to some degree and even the stock Mustangs can be reflashed to make 325-350hp.
Because the GT500 has a giant cast iron engine, the handling has suffered. That is evident in every road test you read including the one between the GT500 and VXR500. It comes down to too much weight overall and too much weight in the nose plus the use of 18 inch wheels and no uprating to the suspension of any great note and no apparent lowering of any consequence. A half arsed effort in which the laws of physics have prevailed. Ford think it will sell on the looks and it will so why try any harder?
This is evident from the EVO PCOTY test which saw the lighter and less powerful Roush 420RE come second in it's category below the M3 but tellingly above the 350Z (which only has 2 seats) and way above the Corvette C6.
The Roush at £40k is this a better buy than the GT500 at current prices but it's still a little overpriced. The current GT500 prices arise out of having to pay $20k premiums to obtain these cars in the US. Atlantic Sports Cars have admitted as much. When the bubble bursts (and it will, big time) we will see a similar depression in buying prices that the C5 Z06 suffered when it dropped from around £40k used to £26k used. However, there will always be people who will want the Shelby because it is the ultimate pose and no amount of fact will ever dissuade an avid Shelby fan that it is possibly inferior to a well-sorted GT. It may keep it's price extremely well if a low number are brought into the UK too because lots of people got their fingers burnt importing the Mustang GT, the market flooded and they may be wary about doing it again.My feeling is, however, that it wion't because the used market won't pay high prices. Hell, you can get a Corvette C6 from Stratstones for £37k.
Anyone not infatuated by a cheap Shelby badge would be better off buying a 2007 Mustang GT for around £25k in it's top Premium with upgraded interior form (Shelbys still have the same basic interior) and then have the high output Vortech supercharger fitted for £4500 by the UK agent in London (as did I) and gain a better power to weight ratio than the Shelby and the Roush. You'll want a set of wheels and tyres (getting on for £2.5 -3k if you want 20's and Sport Maxx tyres) and certainly a set of adjustable Tokico D-Spec dampers and some lowering springs (or buy the Roush or Saleen kits) plus a louder exhaust. The Pick'n'Mix approach varies the price but for £35k, a car at least as good as the Roush can be yours.
For this reason, I bought a very low mile car for under £20k and did the mods myself so the total came to something around £28k. Brakes will cost more again and should be considered. Overall, depending on what comes with the Roush 420RE, it could therefore be a good buy if you wanted one new.
Other alternatives are a 325hp Saleen Mustang which sells here for around £33k and it has everything already (20" wheels, saleen suspension etc) so with only a 462hp Vortech needed, it would pan out at £37500 for which you get all the power you need, all the handling you need and the Saleen is drop dead gorgeous to look at too. This would be the route I would take if I did it again and offers the most performance and handling for your money. Still Corvette C6 money though and that has 400hp and a little less weight.
It will never be an RS4 of course and I don't pretend it will. But the Skyline was a performance god and still managed to feel bland. However, I imagine the RS4 will go the way of the M3 and depreciate steadily forever and a day until nobody wants to pay for the possible repairs and tricky and expensive maintenance in due course. There is, alternatively, a massive market for middle-aged American muscle cars, usually bought by people who can't afford a new car and who love American muscle. The cars tend to depreciate as normal to begin with but reach a very slow depreciation rate at about 3-5 years old. The reason is they are cheap to insure and cheap to run and service and easy to repair. The Mustang will be in even greater demand because it's so much better than American Mustangs of yore and looks and handles in a different league to the past offerings from Ford.
I'd love an RS4. Not sure I would love the bills attached to it though.
The GT500 has been widely slagged off but that's because Ford have cynically marketed it under the Shelby banner, built up hopes and done nothing to it of any substance bar a 6 speed box and bigger brakes to compensate for the vast increase in weight over the stock GT occasioned by the use of a cast iron engine. It weighs 300kgs more than a stock GT so the weight kills the performance hike to some degree and even the stock Mustangs can be reflashed to make 325-350hp.
Because the GT500 has a giant cast iron engine, the handling has suffered. That is evident in every road test you read including the one between the GT500 and VXR500. It comes down to too much weight overall and too much weight in the nose plus the use of 18 inch wheels and no uprating to the suspension of any great note and no apparent lowering of any consequence. A half arsed effort in which the laws of physics have prevailed. Ford think it will sell on the looks and it will so why try any harder?
This is evident from the EVO PCOTY test which saw the lighter and less powerful Roush 420RE come second in it's category below the M3 but tellingly above the 350Z (which only has 2 seats) and way above the Corvette C6.
The Roush at £40k is this a better buy than the GT500 at current prices but it's still a little overpriced. The current GT500 prices arise out of having to pay $20k premiums to obtain these cars in the US. Atlantic Sports Cars have admitted as much. When the bubble bursts (and it will, big time) we will see a similar depression in buying prices that the C5 Z06 suffered when it dropped from around £40k used to £26k used. However, there will always be people who will want the Shelby because it is the ultimate pose and no amount of fact will ever dissuade an avid Shelby fan that it is possibly inferior to a well-sorted GT. It may keep it's price extremely well if a low number are brought into the UK too because lots of people got their fingers burnt importing the Mustang GT, the market flooded and they may be wary about doing it again.My feeling is, however, that it wion't because the used market won't pay high prices. Hell, you can get a Corvette C6 from Stratstones for £37k.
Anyone not infatuated by a cheap Shelby badge would be better off buying a 2007 Mustang GT for around £25k in it's top Premium with upgraded interior form (Shelbys still have the same basic interior) and then have the high output Vortech supercharger fitted for £4500 by the UK agent in London (as did I) and gain a better power to weight ratio than the Shelby and the Roush. You'll want a set of wheels and tyres (getting on for £2.5 -3k if you want 20's and Sport Maxx tyres) and certainly a set of adjustable Tokico D-Spec dampers and some lowering springs (or buy the Roush or Saleen kits) plus a louder exhaust. The Pick'n'Mix approach varies the price but for £35k, a car at least as good as the Roush can be yours.
For this reason, I bought a very low mile car for under £20k and did the mods myself so the total came to something around £28k. Brakes will cost more again and should be considered. Overall, depending on what comes with the Roush 420RE, it could therefore be a good buy if you wanted one new.
Other alternatives are a 325hp Saleen Mustang which sells here for around £33k and it has everything already (20" wheels, saleen suspension etc) so with only a 462hp Vortech needed, it would pan out at £37500 for which you get all the power you need, all the handling you need and the Saleen is drop dead gorgeous to look at too. This would be the route I would take if I did it again and offers the most performance and handling for your money. Still Corvette C6 money though and that has 400hp and a little less weight.
It will never be an RS4 of course and I don't pretend it will. But the Skyline was a performance god and still managed to feel bland. However, I imagine the RS4 will go the way of the M3 and depreciate steadily forever and a day until nobody wants to pay for the possible repairs and tricky and expensive maintenance in due course. There is, alternatively, a massive market for middle-aged American muscle cars, usually bought by people who can't afford a new car and who love American muscle. The cars tend to depreciate as normal to begin with but reach a very slow depreciation rate at about 3-5 years old. The reason is they are cheap to insure and cheap to run and service and easy to repair. The Mustang will be in even greater demand because it's so much better than American Mustangs of yore and looks and handles in a different league to the past offerings from Ford.
I'd love an RS4. Not sure I would love the bills attached to it though.
Couldn't agree more...
At one point, I always thought I might sell the GT to get hold of a GT500. Not any more...
I really do think that the standard Mustang GT is tremendous value for money. You can get a better car by buying a standard GT and modifying it. You can save a fortune, and still have a supercharged engine, big wheels, lowered looks and big brakes. And it will still handle better than a GT500.
It's a no-brainer. Unless you simply must have a "Shelby" badge on it!
BTW, I've got Shelby Razor wheels on my GT. And they have "Shelby" emblazoned on one of the spokes. So it might not be an official Shelby (which as we know, the GT500 is not a real Shelby). But at least it has the "Shelby" name on it. If you catch my drift!
At one point, I always thought I might sell the GT to get hold of a GT500. Not any more...
I really do think that the standard Mustang GT is tremendous value for money. You can get a better car by buying a standard GT and modifying it. You can save a fortune, and still have a supercharged engine, big wheels, lowered looks and big brakes. And it will still handle better than a GT500.
It's a no-brainer. Unless you simply must have a "Shelby" badge on it!
BTW, I've got Shelby Razor wheels on my GT. And they have "Shelby" emblazoned on one of the spokes. So it might not be an official Shelby (which as we know, the GT500 is not a real Shelby). But at least it has the "Shelby" name on it. If you catch my drift!
4WD said:
I wonder how you rate the new stangs against the c5 zo6?
I sold a C5 Z06 to buy the Stang simply because it has 4 seats and because in many ways I actually preferred my modified Z28. In many ways, they're like chalk and cheese but with the supercharger, the Stang has no problem being as fast as a Z06 and the gearbox is so much better, it could actually prove faster. The Z06 brakes are better but overall, I don't find myself missing the Z06 at all except in the exotic looks department. Then again, believe it or not, the Mustang gets far more attention than the Z06 ever got.
Irish boy - You've hit the nail on the head! It's the flaws in a car that give it character. A car that is "too good" ends up being clinical and therefore boring. Sadly, many german cars fall into this category. It's ok for your "accountant type" that prefer a safe bet. But for us "more interesting" people, Audi's & BMW's (whilst technically superior) do not cut it.
In my opinion, these too cars have handling that is best described as flamboyant & wildly entertaining. That's right up my street. I want a car that love's to slide about in a cloud of unrefined smoke. Handling that's edgy. A car that puts a massive grin on your face.
I don't want a car to be a faceless machine. I want my car to have a soul... to almost breathe. You need to almost feel that it lives to really understand it. When you turn the key, you want to feel that you are waking it from it's slumber. Giving the devil inside a prod, and saying "let's go"
My Mustang GT makes me grow horns everytime I drive it. And pure satisfaction once I park her back in the garage. I end up smiling for the rest of the day!!!
In my opinion, these too cars have handling that is best described as flamboyant & wildly entertaining. That's right up my street. I want a car that love's to slide about in a cloud of unrefined smoke. Handling that's edgy. A car that puts a massive grin on your face.
I don't want a car to be a faceless machine. I want my car to have a soul... to almost breathe. You need to almost feel that it lives to really understand it. When you turn the key, you want to feel that you are waking it from it's slumber. Giving the devil inside a prod, and saying "let's go"
My Mustang GT makes me grow horns everytime I drive it. And pure satisfaction once I park her back in the garage. I end up smiling for the rest of the day!!!
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