HTC Vive...let's try this VR stuff..

HTC Vive...let's try this VR stuff..

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Digby

Original Poster:

8,230 posts

245 months

Wednesday 4th May 2016
quotequote all
Have just picked one of these up and was wondering if anyone else has dipped their toe into the VR pool?

If so, what's best to try?

Am about to see how easy it is to set up and I will report back..


Digby

Original Poster:

8,230 posts

245 months

Wednesday 4th May 2016
quotequote all
Well, a quick review...

It's the future, this. It needs a better res and probably wireless tech, but it's the future.

I have been there for all the pivotal moments of PC / game development; from pong to the very first accelerated GPU's, all of the boundary pushing consoles, flat monitors, 3D.....you name it. It all started for me back in the 70's and I have spent a fortune. My jaw has been wide open a few times and it just happened again..

Setting it all up wasn't too sad. I screwed one sensor to a curtain rail and the other to a tall CD cabinet. Then you run through the web page instructions and off you go..

First of all, the tracking is nothing short of amazing. In the demo room, you can inflate balloons and with the two controllers, you can bat them around and grab them etc. This moment alone, as I managed to stop one flying away, made me let out an expletive hehe

Later and during the start of the story driven and part interactive Apollo 11, you find yourself in a room with a TV and projector playing. Just to my right was a table with a model of one of the landers on it. I spun my head to look at it, walked forward a little, knelt down and moved my head closer. I then moved all around it on my knees and it tracked me to perfection.

You can forget any thoughts of it not keeping up with you etc, it does. It is, as I say, amazing

Later, on the way up to the rocket cockpit, you are standing in an elevator with the two other pilots. You had such a feeling of being there that as I walked between them in this small space, I turned my body to make sure I would fit! I then got 'in the face' of one of them and it actually made me uncomfortable because graphics aside, you felt like you had just put yourself two inches from another human face and had locked eyes. I would imagine the first VR porn titles will sell well..

There were many more moments worth mentioning, but I have more demos to look at now so I shall report once again on my findings. Basically, resolution and a few gripes aside, it's an amazing experience. Nothing will ever be the same again.








Motorsport_is_Expensive

2,348 posts

121 months

Wednesday 4th May 2016
quotequote all
Great review. Thanks.

I had the DK2 for a short while and my thoughts were exactly the same; it's not there, yet (although I'm sure the Vive is way better than the DK2) but I had a few of 'those' moments... those milestones where your mouth involuntarily widens and you're thinking 'Jesus Christ this is it... '

Cant wait to build a machine powerful enough to do these things justice!

SturdyHSV

10,082 posts

166 months

Wednesday 4th May 2016
quotequote all
Just weighing in to echo the same thoughts really.

I borrowed a DK2 for a while after I put together a PC that could at least cope with it well.

I only played around with driving games (I have a wheel / shifter / seat set-up which helps) but there were still some of those moments.

As you say, the tracking is perfect, it's as simple as that. Playing Dirt Rally, even watching the replays being able to look around in spectator cam was mighty, as with on the 'fixed to the wing' cameras, you could move around and peer side on at the wheel etc.

I think the important thing is that your brain just believes that what you can see is 'there'. You instinctively reach out for the gear stick expecting it to be where it is virtually. You can't help but recoil / flinch back slightly as you head off the track towards something solid.

As the OP stated too, looking at the co-driver, you're not looking at a man on a little screen, there is a full sized man sat next to you, and your brain fires off the various feelings of social nuance that you can't control. There's not really a way to describe it other than you no longer feel like it's only you in the room, you feel the pull of social obligation to 'break the ice'.

It's those moments where it makes your brain subconsciously react in ways you didn't realise were lacking before.

Certainly with the DK2 I found the resolution really bugged me. Especially because in something like Dirt Rally, 90% of the time you're focused intensely on one very small point trying to read as far into the distance as possible, and all you can see is about 9 pixels with a black mesh over them. I also found that because I'm so used to driving in the seat etc. I just didn't look around much, things like looking over a shoulder to reverse out of a hedge having to be concious decisions that ended up feeling a bit unnatural and gimmicky, which was unexpected.

Likewise with the car sliding sideways etc. I'm just so used to not looking into the slide that I didn't. If I'd had a lot more time with it I'm sure I'd have probably adapted more though.

One last thing, the sense of depth and ability to place the car on the apex millimetres from a wall was immediate and appreciably better than I'd ever managed looking at a flat screen.

I'd really have loved to try a flight sim with the Oculus, or Elite: Dangerous. I think being in a slightly more unfamiliar environment you'd take to the VR more readily, and the sense of scale you get would be magical hehe

Oakey

27,523 posts

215 months

Wednesday 4th May 2016
quotequote all
Wait till you see the smut movies!

paulrockliffe

15,639 posts

226 months

Wednesday 4th May 2016
quotequote all
Very interesting. I've not really looked into VR much, but keep seeing adverts for it, that don't really explain it. What is the extent of the tracking you talk about, is it tracking your body by camera, or just your hands by tracking the controllers? Are you able to walk around in a space?

What sort of processing power do you need? I can think of reasons why it wouldn't need much, but also reasons why it would need loads.

I'm never been big into gaming, I think because I'm not very good without the realism. I could get the hang of driving games with a steering wheel, but only really with force feedback, though I could never get the feeling of braking at all, so that was just guess work. If the realism is properly there, I could probably really enjoy gaming again.

What are they like for cinema? Should be great, but less sociable I'd guess. Might hold off on the projector for the workshop for a while. Would be great for when the missus tells me to put some Channel 4 crap on when I'm watching proper TV.

Anyway, keep the thread updated, I'm sure there's lots of people interested in how you get on and if you find any little niggles etc.

Altrezia

8,517 posts

210 months

Wednesday 4th May 2016
quotequote all
I have a vive too - still waiting for proper games, but the actual immersion is brilliant smile

FourWheelDrift

88,375 posts

283 months

Wednesday 4th May 2016
quotequote all
Have you tried the Brookhaven Experiment?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEl4nj15Jpc

Guvernator

13,103 posts

164 months

Wednesday 4th May 2016
quotequote all
I'm on the fence. I really want to jump in with both feet but I just don't think the technology is quite there yet in terms of graphics fidelity and I'd probably prefer to wait until it's better.

However a friend is due to get his OR in a couple of months so I will beg, steal or borrow it for at least a couple of days to see if I can live with the limitations of the first gen stuff.

Digby

Original Poster:

8,230 posts

245 months

Wednesday 4th May 2016
quotequote all
FourWheelDrift said:
Have you tried the Brookhaven Experiment?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEl4nj15Jpc
Yep. As with most games, you can forget 2k, 4k graphics at this stage, so things are less sharp and detailed than playing on a PC screen, but - and it's a big but - my heart started to pound as things progressed in that demo. I was spinning around all over the place and letting them get close to save bullets for headshots was.....unnerving.

Again, re: the tracking, as you hold the Vive controller up in front of your face, you are looking at your gun. You can put it right up to your nose, out at arms length and even spin it around and fire it at yourself if you wish. Same with the torch. And if you move your torch and shine it at your right hand, the gun casts a massive shadow. I could kneel down and shoot, stand and shoot and spin around as quickly as possible and it was all replicated 100%.


Digby

Original Poster:

8,230 posts

245 months

Wednesday 4th May 2016
quotequote all
paulrockliffe said:
Very interesting. I've not really looked into VR much, but keep seeing adverts for it, that don't really explain it. What is the extent of the tracking you talk about, is it tracking your body by camera, or just your hands by tracking the controllers? Are you able to walk around in a space?

What sort of processing power do you need? I can think of reasons why it wouldn't need much, but also reasons why it would need loads.

I'm never been big into gaming, I think because I'm not very good without the realism. I could get the hang of driving games with a steering wheel, but only really with force feedback, though I could never get the feeling of braking at all, so that was just guess work. If the realism is properly there, I could probably really enjoy gaming again.

What are they like for cinema? Should be great, but less sociable I'd guess. Might hold off on the projector for the workshop for a while. Would be great for when the missus tells me to put some Channel 4 crap on when I'm watching proper TV.

Anyway, keep the thread updated, I'm sure there's lots of people interested in how you get on and if you find any little niggles etc.
The HTC Vive allows you to walk around a little by using body tracking sensors and two wireless control pads. You can look up, down, anywhere you like. Want to hide behind a concrete pillar in a game and just peek around it? No problem. Want to lay yourself on the floor and look up at the underside of a table? No problem.

The larger and more clear your room is, the better. Obviously what you can't do is walk for two miles, so the games so far have adopted a 'point and teleport' kind of approach, or by using platforms that move around etc. You can walk a little, but only as far as your room allows.

I think this situation will always be the immersion killer until the platforms which allow you to walk on the spot etc become readily available, but for now, just taking a few steps in the real world and having your character move is still pretty impressive. The Vive also allows you to scan your room space and during a game, should you trundle too close towards your furniture whilst swinging a sword, a grid system appears in your lenses to let you know. It works quite well actually and will stop people falling out of windows..


The Oculus rift currently only allows you to sit or stand and move your head whilst using an Xbox pad for everything else, but developments are coming to make it more like the Vive apparently.

I'm not actually sure how much BHP you need, but I have 2 GTX 970's in SLI so shouldn't have too many issues. Obviously a lot will depend on the games. Many are quite basic despite being fun, but we will no doubt see better and better titles. I would imagine this will go the way of TV's, projectors, consoles etc and will end up with 4k VR headsets which will demand the latest Nvidia cards and all that jazz. i think, however, it's safe to say that you need a bit of 'oomph' to get the most out of it.

Not sure about movies, but I think some of the youtube videos now allow VR and you can, for example, look at a cinema screen with something playing but also turn around and look at the fire exits and entrance doors hehe

I think some may find the 'wow' factor wearing off quite quickly, though. I played a dungeon hack and slash type affair a while ago and it's surprising how quickly you get used to it all. Again, it was let down by the forward moving teleporting. It works perfectly well, but as I walked say, five feet across my own bedroom to open a door in the game, once that door opens, I can no longer walk forward due to my real life wall. I either have to walk five feet backwards and teleport back to the door so I can walk another five feet before I hit my wall, or, use the teleport to angle myself so I can walk back the way I just came but on screen, it will be through that door.

The thing is, just as you are thinking "Oh that's a shame, I hope they hurry up with cheap treadmills", you find a sword and a shield and are blocking and slashing and having a great time. You get used to things again and are thinking of having a bit of a break and then you find a bow and arrows and you have to hold it and draw your arms back in the exact same way you would in real life...and off you go again for a play.

This IS the future, but it is going to get so much better..

SturdyHSV said:
I think the important thing is that your brain just believes that what you can see is 'there'. You instinctively reach out for the gear stick expecting it to be where it is virtually. You can't help but recoil / flinch back slightly as you head off the track towards something solid.
Don't laugh, but during part of my dungeon slashing, I walked up to an alter and at that point decided to remove the headset and have a cup of tea. I looked down at the alter and tried to place my two hand controllers on it...laugh It's not like it was amazing on the graphics front, either; rather in-game I had just dropped two other items on to it and as you say, my brain just wanted to do the same again.

I bet there will be a few busted pads as time goes on..

Edited by Digby on Wednesday 4th May 13:33

Irrotational

1,577 posts

187 months

Wednesday 4th May 2016
quotequote all
Altrezia said:
I have a vive too - still waiting for proper games, but the actual immersion is brilliant smile
Hiya! How are you getting on with it? Sounds good?

Still waiting/hoping for my Rift to come through.

FourWheelDrift

88,375 posts

283 months

Wednesday 4th May 2016
quotequote all
A walking system (of sorts) was used on the Gadget Show acouple of years back, but it was a very big system, not for all sitting rooms hehe

https://youtu.be/eg8Bh5iI2WY?t=99


The Virtuix Omni is more compact but you can't crouch - http://www.virtuix.com/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpS67kQIx9g

Altrezia

8,517 posts

210 months

Wednesday 4th May 2016
quotequote all
Irrotational said:
Hiya! How are you getting on with it? Sounds good?

Still waiting/hoping for my Rift to come through.
Yes, better now - wife loves it and has spent much more time with it than I have - but I really like the simple things like archery and what-not - you really can forget that you're not 'in' a game.

Rift still looks good, and the sim-racer's I've spoken to with the CV1 rate it highly. Still want!

Motorsport_is_Expensive

2,348 posts

121 months

Wednesday 4th May 2016
quotequote all
SturdyHSV said:
Just weighing in to echo the same thoughts really.

I borrowed a DK2 for a while after I put together a PC that could at least cope with it well.

I only played around with driving games (I have a wheel / shifter / seat set-up which helps) but there were still some of those moments.

As you say, the tracking is perfect, it's as simple as that. Playing Dirt Rally, even watching the replays being able to look around in spectator cam was mighty, as with on the 'fixed to the wing' cameras, you could move around and peer side on at the wheel etc.

I think the important thing is that your brain just believes that what you can see is 'there'. You instinctively reach out for the gear stick expecting it to be where it is virtually. You can't help but recoil / flinch back slightly as you head off the track towards something solid.

As the OP stated too, looking at the co-driver, you're not looking at a man on a little screen, there is a full sized man sat next to you, and your brain fires off the various feelings of social nuance that you can't control. There's not really a way to describe it other than you no longer feel like it's only you in the room, you feel the pull of social obligation to 'break the ice'.

It's those moments where it makes your brain subconsciously react in ways you didn't realise were lacking before.

Certainly with the DK2 I found the resolution really bugged me. Especially because in something like Dirt Rally, 90% of the time you're focused intensely on one very small point trying to read as far into the distance as possible, and all you can see is about 9 pixels with a black mesh over them. I also found that because I'm so used to driving in the seat etc. I just didn't look around much, things like looking over a shoulder to reverse out of a hedge having to be concious decisions that ended up feeling a bit unnatural and gimmicky, which was unexpected.

Likewise with the car sliding sideways etc. I'm just so used to not looking into the slide that I didn't. If I'd had a lot more time with it I'm sure I'd have probably adapted more though.

One last thing, the sense of depth and ability to place the car on the apex millimetres from a wall was immediate and appreciably better than I'd ever managed looking at a flat screen.

I'd really have loved to try a flight sim with the Oculus, or Elite: Dangerous. I think being in a slightly more unfamiliar environment you'd take to the VR more readily, and the sense of scale you get would be magical hehe
Get out of my brain!

Edit to say, I actually tried to punch the Alien in the face when naptured during Alien Isolation. Once you're 'in' the game, it doesnt let go easily.

Edited by Motorsport_is_Expensive on Wednesday 4th May 14:02

rpguk

4,458 posts

283 months

Wednesday 4th May 2016
quotequote all
I had a go on a meaty vive test rig.

I was blown away. You often hear about the early cinematic experience and people jumping out of the way of approaching trains and I can understand that now. One of the demos was the robot repair one and there is a bit where a door opens and there is a big robot and my first instinct was to jump back - it is very invasive. It was an interesting moral dilemma actually as it was friendly biggrin

Agree that the room size thing was an issue - I was in a fairly big studio and still hit a wall (buggers watching could have warned me!) - tripping over cables wasn't as much as a problem as I expected as you do get a feel for where they are.

I'm not quite tempted to buy in yet as I think there are still some big questions about how it's all going to work in practice but I suspect Christmas 2016 will see some more consumer friendly stuff and it'll drive another leap in hardware that's needed to run it all after a few years of stagnation. I'm sure by 2017 there will be a really mainstream version along the lines of the Nintendo Wii - whether the concept follows the Wii back into obscurity or makes a lasting difference will be interesting to see.

Edited by rpguk on Wednesday 4th May 20:07

Guvernator

13,103 posts

164 months

Wednesday 4th May 2016
quotequote all
I'm not sure I'd be that interested in walking around my own house or on a treadmill. I play games to chill out and that just sounds like too much physical effort tbh so I'd be happy to forego those features as long as the rest of the immersion experience was solid.

Saying that I can definitely see a market for augmented reality VR lazer tag type places to pop up where you actually have the space to replicate the virtual environment. Just imagine a game of lazer tag in a big warehouse augmented with VR. I'm pretty sure I saw something about such a place opening up in the US so I reckon they could become all the rage in a few years. Going to such a place would be a more active experience so I wouldn't mind the running around then.

FourWheelDrift

88,375 posts

283 months

Wednesday 4th May 2016
quotequote all
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7ANUIr50ts

Have you worn out the groinal attachment again sir?

Bullett

10,873 posts

183 months

Wednesday 4th May 2016
quotequote all
I have a DK2 with a Vive, CV1 and Morpheus on order.
Not sure I will keep them all or even complete the order but I have seen enough with the DK2 to know it's the future.
I mostly use mine for sim racing in iracing. It's so immersive I don't even notice the SDE (much) when I'm racing. Playing on a flat screen just doesn't compare. I find myself looking to the apex and running much closer and more accurate lines. Ordered the CV1 to support the racing mostly as all I needed was a seated experience and I had all the controllers I needed.

The Vive is coming this month. I was impressed by the room scale demos, it looked a lot more general fun and usable. Assuming it works as well as described and support comes in for iracing and other racers then I may drop my order for the CV1.

The PS4VR will be interesting to see what they can do with the technology available to them. I think this will be the big one, technically inferior to the others but possibly the one to make it big with the general public.

Steven_RW

1,727 posts

201 months

Wednesday 4th May 2016
quotequote all
Interesting updates guys. Appreciated and please keep the views coming.

Cheers

Steven_RW