Copyright Claim - Sounds Dodgy

Copyright Claim - Sounds Dodgy

Author
Discussion

superlightr

12,632 posts

250 months

Thursday 10th January 2019
quotequote all
CzechItOut said:
There are some clear attempts to hide the copyright in this instance, but photographers do go to court and do win:

http://www.webbaviation.co.uk/WebbvCardiff%20Steel...
absolutely - in the uk both the claimant and defendant.

The defendant tried/did alter the meta details of the photos to remove the owner's name, did not remove the images immediately and did not act in good faith to try and resolve the issues, did not try to mediate, did not try to resolve pre-court and did not turn up at court.

If they had done evert thing sensible then it looks like £390 would have been the amount awarded. Most of the award is for acting like a plonker in their actions and forcing the claimant to pursue at more cost then hassle then needed.

The OP & recent poster is talking about many thousands demanded by a 3rd party overseas person & not even the owner. Im sure the OP is sensible and reasonable enough to remove and take down the pics asap.

I can only say what happened to me and how I weighed up the risk of Getty taking me to court and my understanding of Copyright in the UK and what courts may do having acted as a solicitor in the UK. I took down the images, confirmed I was not aware it was not free from and acted quickly. It didnt go to court, I paid nothing I ignored all other letters.

As mentioned before Bigstock is great for images to buy/use. I sell images there myself smile



Edited by superlightr on Thursday 10th January 17:20


Edited by superlightr on Thursday 10th January 17:21


Edited by superlightr on Thursday 10th January 18:42

nikkivb

4 posts

51 months

Tuesday 29th January 2019
quotequote all
I am still getting emails always every Wednesday it is nevered answered promptly now they are saying they are gong to take me to court. For those people that were messaged years ago did you pay up or let it go to court. I have been advised to let them take me to court by a UK lawyer.

Its just really strange asa friend of mine had the same email for another photo from the same company. How many people are receveing this there must be and answer somewhere.

This company obviously has dealings with these situation so will probably try them:

https://hoesmann.eu/copyright-infringement-warning...

FurtiveFreddy

8,577 posts

224 months

Tuesday 29th January 2019
quotequote all
nikkivb said:
I am still getting emails always every Wednesday it is nevered answered promptly now they are saying they are gong to take me to court. For those people that were messaged years ago did you pay up or let it go to court. I have been advised to let them take me to court by a UK lawyer.

Its just really strange asa friend of mine had the same email for another photo from the same company. How many people are receveing this there must be and answer somewhere.

This company obviously has dealings with these situation so will probably try them:

https://hoesmann.eu/copyright-infringement-warning...
Have you removed the images from you site?

superlightr

12,632 posts

250 months

Tuesday 29th January 2019
quotequote all
nikkivb said:
I am still getting emails always every Wednesday it is nevered answered promptly now they are saying they are gong to take me to court. For those people that were messaged years ago did you pay up or let it go to court. I have been advised to let them take me to court by a UK lawyer.

Its just really strange asa friend of mine had the same email for another photo from the same company. How many people are receveing this there must be and answer somewhere.

This company obviously has dealings with these situation so will probably try them:

https://hoesmann.eu/copyright-infringement-warning...
please read the posts above. you have your answer and reasons behind. Im not going to repeat it.

nikkivb

4 posts

51 months

Tuesday 29th January 2019
quotequote all
Yes I removed this straight away

sofiaror

1 posts

49 months

Tuesday 26th February 2019
quotequote all
Hi nikkivb

I have received the same mail from robert.fechner@photography-defender.com, they are asking 5000 euros for each picture, i'm going to ask an advise from a lawyer as well, in order he can tell me how to proceed. At the moment we remove both photographs from the website

Can you tell me what has happened with you please?

Do you still receive mails from them?

StevieBee

11,726 posts

242 months

Thursday 28th February 2019
quotequote all
rich888 said:
Slightly off topic but it's worthwhile mentioning to anyone that has copied and used a image on their website that they might want to remove it quick and replace it with a photo they have taken.

Many years ago a friend of mine used a small generic shopping cart image on one of his websites and was contacted out of the blue by one of the well known USA based Image companies, they hounded him for several years until he settled with them for several thousand pounds.

It's a bit late now, but never ever use images that you haven't taken yourself, and even then, ensure that you can prove you took the pic because these vultures don't give up. I've even heard instances of folks using images that they purchased on a CD/DVD or as part of a stock website only to be on the receiving end of some legal letter or email which they received several years later.
To add to this is the advisory to check the terms related to images purchased from official image libraries.

We landed a client a few years back who'd previously commissioned a long-since gone company to design and build their website. That company had purchased the rights to use an image from library. This image had become a key part of their brand but the original company had only purchased a 12 month license. Because the web company had gone bust, the copyright owner assumed the company whose site it was to be using it illegally.




JoeFlighter

3 posts

50 months

Friday 15th March 2019
quotequote all
nikkivb said:
I am still getting emails always every Wednesday it is nevered answered promptly now they are saying they are gong to take me to court. For those people that were messaged years ago did you pay up or let it go to court. I have been advised to let them take me to court by a UK lawyer.

Its just really strange asa friend of mine had the same email for another photo from the same company. How many people are receveing this there must be and answer somewhere.

This company obviously has dealings with these situation so will probably try them:

https://hoesmann.eu/copyright-infringement-warning...
Just wanted to let you know that they are still emailing myself as well - three months going, and apparently they found new images to collect for.

JoeFlighter

3 posts

50 months

Friday 15th March 2019
quotequote all
sofiaror said:
Hi nikkivb

I have received the same mail from robert.fechner@photography-defender.com, they are asking 5000 euros for each picture, i'm going to ask an advise from a lawyer as well, in order he can tell me how to proceed. At the moment we remove both photographs from the website

Can you tell me what has happened with you please?

Do you still receive mails from them?
Mr. Fechner is continuing to use reverse image search in an attempt to find more images from the same photographer they represent, asking for a ludicrous 3500 Euros for each image. They've been emailing me for 3-months now...

JulianPH

Original Poster:

9,731 posts

101 months

Sunday 17th March 2019
quotequote all
I've just received a PM that has alerted me to this thread being resurrected, so I though I would add an update:

After receiving proof that the legal firm was acting on behalf of the copyright holder I negotiated a settlement.

There was no dispute regarding the source of the image not stating it was copyrighted, but it was nevertheless copyrighted. Basically no malicious intent was involved, but copyright was still breached.

My advice to anyone else who finds themselves in this position is to act fairly and honourably upon receiving such a notice, remove the image immediately and come to a fair settlement for inadvertently using such image. This is the case regardless of whether you (like I) used an image in good faith.

At the end of the day, in my circumstances, the barrage of emails meant that it was (in any event) cheaper for me to pay rather than defend the innocence of the breach.

I started this thread as it originally appeared to be a scam email. TBH I am still not 100% sure as my offers to pay for ongoing use of the image were completely ignored. That didn't resonate with me as being the stance a legal representative would take when acting on behalf of a client.

Anyway, the lessons learnt from this brief encounter were;

  • Never, without fail, assume any image is copyright free
  • Always have a contractual agreement in place between you and the copyright holder that enables you to use the image for all purposes you may require it for (website, brochure, advertising, etc.)
  • Do not assume that because you have a licence to use the image for one of the above you are able to use it for any other purpose
  • If you use a third party for any design element, require the same as above
  • Ensure your licensed usage is not time frame restricted
  • Once again, when using a third party to design and source images, ensure they are contractually responsible for the copyright clearance both now and 30 years after they no longer exist - but you still want to use the image (I know that is repetition, but it is important)
I hope this is helpful

Cheers smile


spangle82

317 posts

226 months

Sunday 17th March 2019
quotequote all
Thats a very good, bullet-proof reply. The internet has made us think we can have stuff for free and/or no-one will notice. Most times they may not. But usually, everything belongs to somebody, and sometimes they bite. 'Copyright vests with the author of the work'. It can be assigned, or licenced, but not taken (unless you carelessly send your photos into a competition where the small print says they will take it).

Stefania

1 posts

44 months

Friday 12th July 2019
quotequote all
sofiaror said:
Hi nikkivb

I have received the same mail from robert.fechner@photography-defender.com, they are asking 5000 euros for each picture, i'm going to ask an advise from a lawyer as well, in order he can tell me how to proceed. At the moment we remove both photographs from the website

Can you tell me what has happened with you please?

Do you still receive mails from them?
Hey guys! I have received the same e-mail from robert.fechner@photography-defender.com
Any news? Is this real?

RandomAnon123

2 posts

44 months

Saturday 27th July 2019
quotequote all
Does anyone have any updates? We received the same thing. We received a letter from Fechner Legal and they claimed to have sent us multiple emails prior to the letter which we never received. Our business ceased trading over 2 years ago and we’re just now hearing from them. They want approx €2,800, but I feel like it’s fake/a scam? I’ve seen lots of people receive the same contact either by email or letter and all of whom are international (UK, US, IRE, etc). Some people are saying to ignore it and that it’s fake, others just don’t know.

Apparently they contacted us May 2017 via email (no emails were ever received) asking for payment in June 2017, then July 2017, then they said they emailed us to let us know they would be taking further legal proceedings as we didn’t pay which brings us to now, 2 years later when we received a letter July 2019 from them asking for payment July 2019 and now August 2019. There’s so many things that make me think it’s a scam and I don’t know how to proceed. Can anyone help?

Pedro Raynard

95 posts

95 months

Saturday 27th July 2019
quotequote all
Hi It appears the update was posted on the 17th March 2019, 3 posts above your post.

Natskiee

1 posts

44 months

Tuesday 30th July 2019
quotequote all
Was this ever resolved? I have received the exact same emails nothing in the post. I removed it immediately and explained I had researched the metadata with no results. Very aggressive in their manner demanding money to be paid within a week etc.

superlightr

12,632 posts

250 months

Tuesday 30th July 2019
quotequote all
RandomAnon123 said:
Does anyone have any updates? We received the same thing. We received a letter from Fechner Legal and they claimed to have sent us multiple emails prior to the letter which we never received. Our business ceased trading over 2 years ago and we’re just now hearing from them. They want approx €2,800, but I feel like it’s fake/a scam? I’ve seen lots of people receive the same contact either by email or letter and all of whom are international (UK, US, IRE, etc). Some people are saying to ignore it and that it’s fake, others just don’t know.

Apparently they contacted us May 2017 via email (no emails were ever received) asking for payment in June 2017, then July 2017, then they said they emailed us to let us know they would be taking further legal proceedings as we didn’t pay which brings us to now, 2 years later when we received a letter July 2019 from them asking for payment July 2019 and now August 2019. There’s so many things that make me think it’s a scam and I don’t know how to proceed. Can anyone help?
Ive given my tale of what happened to me. its in the thread above.

so they said in 2017 that would take you to court but didint and saying the same again. if your business has closed who are they going to take to court?

Dont reply, ignor is my answer.

RandomAnon123

2 posts

44 months

Friday 9th August 2019
quotequote all
Natskiee said:
Was this ever resolved? I have received the exact same emails nothing in the post. I removed it immediately and explained I had researched the metadata with no results. Very aggressive in their manner demanding money to be paid within a week etc.
I contacted the alleged client and asked if this was true, they ignored me and about 4 days later I received a letter from Fechner Legal in my junk box telling me not to speak to them (The fact that it went into my junk box was also a flag for me). They conveniently attached all previous emails which I never received from 2+ years ago so I could see the alleged emails they sent, however how could I have not received one? Not even in my junk mail. Anyways, I responded to that email that I received in my junk and said that I was very confused (as I am), and I asked for proof that I was in use of this copyrighted image (this was so long ago, I don’t even know if it is true or not). They responded 11 days later (unprofessional) and was very rude, and said that he didn’t believe that I had never received an email as all emails were attached (very unprofessional to call someone a liar, and he attached them all to his one email that I received). Then he told me it wasn’t hard to find proof (also, very unprofessional and just doesn’t really make sense). Well, no proof was received as requested and instead he is referring to a link he provided over 2 years ago that of course doesn’t work as the business ceased trading and shut over 2 years ago. They have now extended my date of payment once again (not to sound like a broken record, but very unprofessional). All-in-all, they have called me a liar, not provided the evidence I asked for, have asked for payment 5 different times, and said they was going to escalate to further legal actions 2+ years ago and then after that period of silence came back with the exact same thing as before just asking for money again. I’m ignoring it now, nothing adds up and they are extremely unprofessional and give off scam vibes in every way.

painting

2 posts

42 months

Monday 9th September 2019
quotequote all
Hi I have also received one of these letters with demands. Can I please ask Julian how much you negotiated for please
Thank you

painting

2 posts

42 months

Wednesday 11th September 2019
quotequote all
JulianPH said:
I've just received a PM that has alerted me to this thread being resurrected, so I though I would add an update:

After receiving proof that the legal firm was acting on behalf of the copyright holder I negotiated a settlement.

There was no dispute regarding the source of the image not stating it was copyrighted, but it was nevertheless copyrighted. Basically no malicious intent was involved, but copyright was still breached.

My advice to anyone else who finds themselves in this position is to act fairly and honourably upon receiving such a notice, remove the image immediately and come to a fair settlement for inadvertently using such image. This is the case regardless of whether you (like I) used an image in good faith.

At the end of the day, in my circumstances, the barrage of emails meant that it was (in any event) cheaper for me to pay rather than defend the innocence of the breach.

I started this thread as it originally appeared to be a scam email. TBH I am still not 100% sure as my offers to pay for ongoing use of the image were completely ignored. That didn't resonate with me as being the stance a legal representative would take when acting on behalf of a client.

Anyway, the lessons learnt from this brief encounter were;

  • Never, without fail, assume any image is copyright free
  • Always have a contractual agreement in place between you and the copyright holder that enables you to use the image for all purposes you may require it for (website, brochure, advertising, etc.)
  • Do not assume that because you have a licence to use the image for one of the above you are able to use it for any other purpose
  • If you use a third party for any design element, require the same as above
  • Ensure your licensed usage is not time frame restricted
  • Once again, when using a third party to design and source images, ensure they are contractually responsible for the copyright clearance both now and 30 years after they no longer exist - but you still want to use the image (I know that is repetition, but it is important)
I hope this is helpful

Cheers smile

Hi can you advise me on what I should be asking for at negotiation please?

spangle82

317 posts

226 months

Wednesday 11th September 2019
quotequote all
RandomAnon123 said:
stuff.
Ultimately they have to make it harder for you not to pay than to pay. How much management time/money will they spend in order to try to get money from you? I dont know how much a of a case you may or may not have but if you think they have no case Id simply ignore them. 'Shooting at the spotlights will simply get their attention'...