S1 Sump Mod

S1 Sump Mod

Author
Discussion

Adrian@

3,635 posts

226 months

Tuesday 16th July
quotequote all
Yes, I have always welded a sacrificial 3x3 angle plate3 to the top and bottom of the central chassis section, cropped of each side (enough to drop a 10mm drill through), made the new central section with chamfered/gapped and 10mm drill holes, and extensions to the outriggers then created two inner tubes, and puddle TIG'd the 10mm holes and all the through to the inners (through chamfer/gap). I TIG copper/bronze my work and dress everything back to invisible ( I know when I get to steel as it sparks). A@

88S1

180 posts

5 months

Tuesday 16th July
quotequote all
Adrian@ said:
Yes, I have always welded a sacrificial 3x3 angle plate3 to the top and bottom of the . A@
Okay, so that’s if your replacing the centre section too, assume you’ve chopped the outriggers off at this point and position your new centre piece and knock the insert splice in from the chopped off outrigger side, leaving a length protruding to weld the new outrigger onto as well, then weld up. So this leaves a portion of the original outrigger, let’s say 50mm for example sticking out each side of the main chassis (probably 100mm on the outrigger side).

If you are just doing the outriggers then similar operation, with the splices but just to the outside and no need for the 3x3 angle.


Adrian@

3,635 posts

226 months

Tuesday 16th July
quotequote all
Pretty much...adding 15mm press plated folds to the shell mounts and plasma cutting off 13mm (to give them a lip) then infilling the undercut with bronze where the flat plates meet a round tube, blanking off the voids in seat belt mounts, (I have made them in S/S in the dim distant past). A@

88S1

180 posts

5 months

Tuesday 16th July
quotequote all
Adrian@ said:
Pretty much...adding 15mm press plated folds to the shell mounts and plasma cutting off 13mm (to give them a lip) then infilling the undercut with bronze where the flat plates meet a round tube, blanking off the voids in seat belt mounts, (I have made them in S/S in the dim distant past). A@
Some good tips there. Thanks.

greymrj

3,062 posts

148 months

Tuesday 16th July
quotequote all
The method that Shaun has used is the very best engineered solution I have seen. Note the three bolt fastening which deals with the stress issue I referred to. If I was to cut out this member on my car this is the only way I have seen that I would consider. Proper understanding of the issues. Proper job!

Adrian@

3,635 posts

226 months

Tuesday 16th July
quotequote all
greymrj said:
The method that Shaun has used is the very best engineered solution I have seen. Note the three bolt fastening which deals with the stress issue I referred to. If I was to cut out this member on my car this is the only way I have seen that I would consider. Proper understanding of the issues. Proper job!
Well done ..back on topic..agreed. A@

88S1

180 posts

5 months

Tuesday 16th July
quotequote all
Agreed. Good simple solution using minimal parts. Sold.

phillpot

15,159 posts

127 months

Tuesday 16th July
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Maybe not the best "engineered" solution but a few years and a lot of miles later there are no signs of distortion, cracking, twisting or whatever so I'm happy smile




PotlessPaul

313 posts

184 months

Tuesday 16th July
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But you hardly use your car Mike!! laugh

Kitchski

6,142 posts

175 months

Wednesday 17th July
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This is what I did on the S1:



Was simple to do in-situ, and no issues to date. I know it's not moving, because I paint-marked it. Its primary function is to resist tension, due to the weight of the engine bobbing up and down as you drive along. You could cut it out completely, and likely notice no difference. The V8S has a totally different X-brace arrangement, mounted further forward.

Have done others (under my Southways banner) which were different designs, like a threaded plate welded to the rails.

tel595

683 posts

116 months

Wednesday 17th July
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Did this to my S3c ages ago when the big ends nipped up. Went on 3 tours, Italy and back, 3 track days and it didn't fall off or bend once..!! smokin


https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

GreenV8S

27,309 posts

228 months

Wednesday 17th July
quotequote all
Kitchski said:
This is what I did on the S1:
Looks like a perfectly good solution for that problem. It occurs to me that turning the flanges through 90 degrees would enable it to also resist axial twisting in the chassis rails i.e. the outriggers trying to move up and down.

Kitchski

6,142 posts

175 months

Thursday 18th July
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GreenV8S said:
Looks like a perfectly good solution for that problem. It occurs to me that turning the flanges through 90 degrees would enable it to also resist axial twisting in the chassis rails i.e. the outriggers trying to move up and down.
It would, but it wouldn't be possible to get to the top of the bracket to weld it properly, what with everything else in-situ. With the bracket this way round, I was able to weld the top in between the eyelets.

Originally I had ideas to have two bolts in each eyelet, mounted at 45degrees to each other, which would have stopped any torsional movement, but I really don't think it's as big an issue as people are making out. These chassis' aren't exactly precision engineered! I've had chassis' through the doors here where the outrigger on one side is 20mm higher than the other, because the holes in the lower rails were drilled at different heights, and the kink in the tube was in the wrong place!
The fact that subsequent chassis' ditched this design is probably telling.

greymrj

3,062 posts

148 months

Thursday 18th July
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I really do not THINK it is a big issue either Richard, but I don't KNOW so as an engineer I don't know the risk factor and would prefer to obviate it! I regularly get shot down for caution, I can live with that!!

phillpot

15,159 posts

127 months

Thursday 18th July
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I think it's only there because its was easier to get things (somewhere near) straight and level when building the chassis to push one length of tube straight through?


But I guess there is some logic in that it helps prevent the main chassis rails splaying out under the not inconsiderable weight of the engine scratchchin

Kitchski

6,142 posts

175 months

Thursday 18th July
quotequote all
phillpot said:
But I guess there is some logic in that it helps prevent the main chassis rails splaying out under the not inconsiderable weight of the engine scratchchin
That's where I sit with it. Imagine that lump getting thrown up, down and all around on Welsh mountain roads too!

TVRees

898 posts

56 months

Thursday 18th July
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Here are some pics of my sump mod ......










AND FINALLY - WELDED AND PAINTED .......




88S1

180 posts

5 months

Thursday 18th July
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TVRees said:
Here are some pics of my sump mod


AND FINALLY - WELDED AND PAINTED .......

Are the flanges a bought item or something you had made?

greymrj

3,062 posts

148 months

Thursday 18th July
quotequote all
Proper job Tim, very good engineering.

88S1

180 posts

5 months

Friday 19th July
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88S1 said:
TVRees said:
Here are some pics of my sump mod


AND FINALLY - WELDED AND PAINTED .......
Are the flanges a bought item or something you had made?
Nylocks and spring washers, them nuts ain’t going anywhere.