350i Water Pump

350i Water Pump

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Discussion

BlueWedgy

Original Poster:

128 posts

66 months

Tuesday 2nd February
quotequote all
Sorry me again smile

Well exhaust bits on order 2 olives and vibration mounts, thanks for the contributions to my previous post.

Now onto the next job...failing water pump. As time rolls on parts become scarce and solutions become more imaginative.

It would appear that the 350i has a water pump cast from precious metals (I am told by a 12-year-old Netherite). I have been looking at GWP2149 as a replacement. My current setup has 2 pulleys for alt/ps.
Just to add to my old muddled grey matter it appears that there are size differences and shaft configurations.

The only ones I can find, and not that many seem to go for 120 odd quid upwards when adding VAT and shipping.
Does anyone have any wise pearls of wisdom to reduce that cost?
Or even a shoutout, perhaps there is a spare of a spare sitting in the garage stock somewhere gathering dust.

I can stand to be corrected as usual.

Once again I look forward to more than helpful contributions on already done to death subject.

Cheers

KKson

3,144 posts

89 months

Tuesday 2nd February
quotequote all
According to the Rimmer site the GWP2149 is the correct water pump, but steep at £158.40. TVR Parts (Racing Green) also supply an upgraded version for £144 with TVRCC discount.

I did replace the pump on my 390SE a few years back and when the pump was removed it didn't actually match the recommended version so my local garage had to find a replacement to suit, but TBH I cant remember the details.

https://partsfortvrs.com/tvr-parts/part-details/tv...

RPI engineering offer a pump for £95 incl VAT but I'm not sure if it is a direct replacement, but would be worth calling them?

https://shop.v8engines.com/rover-v8-water-pump-for...

There are some advertised on ebay for £40, but not a clue as to whether they are any good??

BlueWedgy

Original Poster:

128 posts

66 months

Tuesday 2nd February
quotequote all
Hi,

Yes, thanks for the info I have been pretty much been to all of those sites.
Due to exhaust work ongoing, I haven't removed the water pump for comparison as yet.
However, I am aware of long and short nose versions.
What I do know is my dimension from the 3 hole inner flange to the end of the threaded shaft is around 40mm this accommodates the 2 pulleys and a nut.

It would appear from reading that Rover SD1 have many versions, to accommodate various fan/pulley setups, therein lies the problem with Fleabay second user ones of which there are a few (these are also a punt of condition). They all appear to have very long shafts outside of the casing, which do not match my short 40mm that I have, these will also potentially fail the upper cross member. I assume that the nut holds on the second pulley. The closest Fleabay one that I have found is 80mm long.

The protruding shaft size more matches this picture:


adam quantrill

11,264 posts

206 months

Tuesday 2nd February
quotequote all
You can cut the longer shaft off with a hacksaw!

I have been buying up fleabay ones when they are cheap (less common now) with a view to having them rebuilt when needed.

After all, it will only require a seal and a bearing. That can't cost a fortune, can it, especially if I have a batch to do all at once.

BlueWedgy

Original Poster:

128 posts

66 months

Tuesday 2nd February
quotequote all
Hi Adam, arh so that's where they have all gone. Yes had been reading about cutting down the shaft.
Also came across some guy rebuilding one. Parts are press fit but required a hydraulic press. Very detailed with pictures and alternative seal types.
I have yet to find a repair kit, although they must have sold them at some point I guess.
I have found one on Fleabay will give that a punt as an interim, at least I may end up with a couple to rebuild smile

Ray

Edited by BlueWedgy on Tuesday 2nd February 15:23


Edited by BlueWedgy on Tuesday 2nd February 15:53

adam quantrill

11,264 posts

206 months

Tuesday 2nd February
quotequote all
Hi Ray ooh please post a link to the MG guy. A hydraulic press I can borrow!

BlueWedgy

Original Poster:

128 posts

66 months

Tuesday 2nd February
quotequote all
Hi Adam,

No problem. Please see the below link to rebuild a pump.

https://roverp5.proboards.com/thread/11789/rover-v...

Ray

Thundered

22 posts

4 months

Tuesday 2nd February
quotequote all
Got my reconditioned from a place Birmingham way. I'll dig out the bill and let you know the details. They use better quality bearings than the originals, did a good job too.

BlueWedgy

Original Poster:

128 posts

66 months

Tuesday 2nd February
quotequote all
Thanks that would be interesting, as to cost.

Interestingly this seal looks very similar to that shown in the Rover / MG link above.

https://www.poolandspacentre.co.uk/products/waterw...

adam quantrill

11,264 posts

206 months

Tuesday 2nd February
quotequote all
That's a great spot Ray it would be useful to find out the internal diameter etc. to confirm, but at that price, worth a punt.

If we can find the bearings too in the UK then we are looking at a refurb for around 10-15 quid (cost of parts).

I used to own a P5 so I'll get an account on that site hand have a chat with Mr enigmas.

BlueWedgy

Original Poster:

128 posts

66 months

Tuesday 2nd February
quotequote all
Hi Adam,

Well again funnily having a bit of time on my hands at the moment I have been looking, and came across this:

https://www.hendersonbearings.co.uk/water-pump-spi...

And here same supplier.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Water-Pump-Spindle-Bear...

I have messaged them via fleabay to see if they sell the bearing on its own.

Although this not the bearing on its own, it matched the info posted on the MG site. I then began to think could the bearing be pushed off the shaft for reuse?

Ray

Edited by BlueWedgy on Wednesday 3rd February 07:20

BlueWedgy

Original Poster:

128 posts

66 months

Wednesday 3rd February
quotequote all
OK so after a couple of mind-numbing communications via Fleabay they say that it comes as an assembly only. So I guess they buy it from somewhere as a unit.

My best guess at this point would be as mentioned see if it can be separated from its shaft, is this worth the £20 odd pound punt?
If all bits fit and the original failed unit is still serviceable this will give a refurbed pump price of about £25 + time and effort. Obviously, a press will be required for all aspects of this.

However, as I am currently a casualty of the Covid-19 unemployment situation, I may well carry on trawling the Interweb for the bearing on its own. If I can find anything other than that posted previously, I will update as and when.

Ray






adam quantrill

11,264 posts

206 months

Wednesday 3rd February
quotequote all
Looking at the drawing it's obvious that the spindle forms part of the bearing:



I suppose you could look for a similar-sized bearing that would shrink onto the shaft, having cut off the old one. However it would be immersed in boiling hot water so it's questionable how long it would last if not designed for that environment.

BlueWedgy

Original Poster:

128 posts

66 months

Friday 5th February
quotequote all
Been a while so here’s a bit of an update on this…

I tend to agree with Adam's observation regarding removal, which I will mention a bit later on.
After much searching I am unable to find a direct bearing replacement, I have concentrated only on UK suppliers. The supplier that I found does not charge delivery (which can bump up price) if anyone has any other bearing requirements.

However, the UK based supplier that I found (simplybearings.co.uk) stock a shaft and bearing. Linked here:
https://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/advanced_search_...

They have confirmed Adams's comment that removal of the bearing would be difficult, they cannot supply the bearing that is not attached to the shaft.

Further to this, I found a bearing that is very near to the bearing dimensions shown in the US topic however the OD is below that of 30mm, being 28.58. I am also not sure how robust it is.
My thought is could this be sleaved to fit?

https://simplybearings.co.uk/shop/p690204/LMB10UU-...

Currently, I do not have an water old pump to try and disassemble to compare internals.

That’s about it I think.

adam quantrill

11,264 posts

206 months

Sunday 7th February
quotequote all
Hi the linear bearing will be no good for this application, it's for things like CNC and 3D printers where your want the motion along the axis of the shaft, it's not designed for rotation.

What about the first link you posted, this appears to be designed as a water pump bearing.



How do the dimensions compare with the original? To me it looks pretty close, the main difference is that the bearing housing isn't as deep, so it night not put up with as much belt tension as the original, but at a tenner a pop, I'll take that.

So we could be looking at a refurb price of 20 quid or less, plus pressing costs, or build your own press with a bottle jack and some scrap steel.

BlueWedgy

Original Poster:

128 posts

66 months

Sunday 7th February
quotequote all
Hi Adam,

Always good for another pair of eyes to look at these things. I was so concentrated on the dimensions. I missed the description and fact that it was a linear version bow Thanks for pointing out the error of my ways.

As the exact OD has as yet eluded me I was also trying to find a bearing that was at the very least undersize, as opposed to oversize as the casting would probably not take any if much machining oversize.
Yes it is also a tad under in length as well.

I notice that the make is KG which appears to be an Indian company linked here:
https://www.kginternational.com/water-pump-bearing...

Yes, presses are a little expensive for the probability of so little use. There is plenty of info on the Interweb on homemade bottle jack presses, something else I was looking at as well.
When things pick up for us all and me I may well revisit this.

On an up note my secondhand pump has turned up and seems in really good overall condition spins freely and no movement in any direction. So I can see about removing the failed one, and installing it hopefully this will keep things going for a while.

adam quantrill

11,264 posts

206 months

Thursday 11th February
quotequote all
If you have a few minutes to while away try going through this lot:

https://www.alibaba.com/showroom/water-pump-shaft-...

Yes I have used a bottle jack press before they are quite easy to make and cheap too. So I was thinking of making one (already have the jack) that could double as a log splitter.

adam quantrill

11,264 posts

206 months

Sunday 14th February
quotequote all
This listing has a big table of bearings, for further selection, but wib1630132 seems to be about right:

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Water-Pump-...

or possibly

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Good-price-...


Edited by adam quantrill on Sunday 14th February 19:53

BlueWedgy

Original Poster:

128 posts

66 months

Sunday 14th February
quotequote all
Hi Adam,

Good spot for the Alibaba many links. I have looked at a fair few and lots could to fit the bill. However, with the postage it pushes the price to over £15, I have never had it but import duty may well be payable as well, if you are the unlucky one.

Unless I am wrong the original linked information from Enigmas shows 2 bearing lengths in the first picture (lower Image) the bearing is quoted 2-1/4". The second picture (further down in the thread) shows 1-1/4" both classed as SD1 shaft bearings.
Which one is in the water pump to be repaired? It would need to be disassembled to determine this I guess.

I have also just noticed that Simply Bearings do not now seem to list the water pump bearing anymore frown.
This said it is in the clearance section so I assume soon to be obsolete.

adam quantrill

11,264 posts

206 months

Monday 15th February
quotequote all
It should be a simple matter to measure the overall length in situ, I have one I took off in the garage I'll have a look at.

(Well I didn't even need to go to the garage, as an eBay purchase came to light!) Overall length = 155mm. Impeller shaft diameter 15.75mm.

But there's a wide-looking spindle at the pulley end looks like 24.7mm?

Yes the alibaba ones need a bulk buy to make sense. I reckon 10-off would bring the unit price right down. I don't mind doing this especially if I have some commitment up front for peeps to take some off my hands. Also we need to find the seals preferably from the same company so they can be shipped in one go,


Edited by adam quantrill on Wednesday 17th February 10:02