RE: Ginetta G4
Discussion
So many things change with time yet some things never change.
So what's the scenario for dare ginetta's in the USA (baring finding a nice original in the UK or Japan)? the USD is stronger now vs. the pound and I'm entertaining ideas again of finally getting one of these.
I'm also looking closely at a Stratos replica that is imported by a firm in Texas from the uk.
So what's the scenario for dare ginetta's in the USA (baring finding a nice original in the UK or Japan)? the USD is stronger now vs. the pound and I'm entertaining ideas again of finally getting one of these.
I'm also looking closely at a Stratos replica that is imported by a firm in Texas from the uk.
no problems regarding importing a new Dare into the US as far as i know. Not sure if it would have to be without engine/box.
Dare's new midengined car is not far off finished. It will be a better option than a G4 i believe. Roomy interior- with far greater range of engines from 2.0 duratec to 3 litre v6. I would hold off until that is finished
Dare's new midengined car is not far off finished. It will be a better option than a G4 i believe. Roomy interior- with far greater range of engines from 2.0 duratec to 3 litre v6. I would hold off until that is finished
jpf said:
I have never read a comparison test between the Elise and the G4. How do you think it would play out?
I think the G4 would be easier to ingress/egress and, the way Ginetta has tuned the Ford motor, the sound is better. Acceleration/Handling would go to the Ginetta G4 compared to a standard Elise. Does the AC, engine position, air bag, radio tilt things towards the Elise?
I'm not sure that the Zetec is such a good choice for the Dare G4 anymore, its reasonably heavy & "tall"; a better bet would be the Duratec. Caterham and Westfield (and Formula Ford single seaters) have switched to this motor now because it is light, robust, can be packaged well and tuned well. It would make the G4 an even better car and would match the cars light weight characteristics.I think the G4 would be easier to ingress/egress and, the way Ginetta has tuned the Ford motor, the sound is better. Acceleration/Handling would go to the Ginetta G4 compared to a standard Elise. Does the AC, engine position, air bag, radio tilt things towards the Elise?
Back to the question of the comparison between the DARE G4 & Elise etc. I believe that question was originally asked with respect to new cars (although I might be wrong). Perhaps a more relevant comparison now is between second hand cars and....even bringing second hand G27 and G20's in to the equation. You can get road legal G27s for c£6-7K (Paul Matty has a G27R for sale as we speak); an Elise can be had for about £8K but second hand Ginetta/ DARE G4s? If they come up at all then they are more expensive than that I would guess. So, if the DARE G4 is a better car than the current Ginetta road car range (G20) and the Elise when new, is it still so much better to be worth the second hand premium?
I guess that the high second hand prices for G4s (and G12s) is one of the problems (or benefits) of DARE's relatively limited production runs. Personally I think that DARE should join forces with an established manufacturer who knows how to get cars built in reasonable volumes, such as Westfield, although no doubt the purists will shout me down!
Edited by andy97 on Tuesday 10th February 07:54
Edited by andy97 on Tuesday 10th February 17:04
"I guess that the high second hand prices for G4s (and G12s) is one of the problems (or benefits) of DARE's relatively limited production runs. Personally I think that DARE should join forces with an established manufacturer who knows how to get cars built in reasonable volumes, such as Westfield, although no doubt the purists will shout me down!"
This is so true.
I had a good look at a recent new Dare G4 and found it to be of awful quality except for the paint which was quite nice.
G4s are pretty but there isn't really anything else to recommend about them. An exception could be made for those cars where an owner has carefully built and rebuilt one to straighten chassis, sort electrics, strengthen the many failure points.
I have owned a round tube so I would say buy an Elise.
This is so true.
I had a good look at a recent new Dare G4 and found it to be of awful quality except for the paint which was quite nice.
G4s are pretty but there isn't really anything else to recommend about them. An exception could be made for those cars where an owner has carefully built and rebuilt one to straighten chassis, sort electrics, strengthen the many failure points.
I have owned a round tube so I would say buy an Elise.
Which 'recent' 'new' Dare G4 did you look at then?
I agree the asking prices are high, but the ones (Dare) I have driven have a bit more than 'nice' paint and being 'pretty'!
They can see off any Elise that's for sure, whether on the track or road. It is a 60s (well, 1961) design anyway.
I agree the asking prices are high, but the ones (Dare) I have driven have a bit more than 'nice' paint and being 'pretty'!
They can see off any Elise that's for sure, whether on the track or road. It is a 60s (well, 1961) design anyway.
OK.
The anti-roll bar was a joke. The roll over bar was never MSA legal despite being specified in the order. Thw wiring was poor ( starter and alternator ceased working at various times). These items had to be replaced (by competent motorsport providers) The pedal box had large gaps requiring the bulkhead to be modified and gussetted. The chassis was about 1/4" out of true laterally at the front resulting in negative camber on one side and positive on the other even with all available adjustment used, caster was also nearly zero ( non adjustable ) resulting in near total lack of steering feel - new fully adjustable wishbones now being built to address this problem!!. At speed the side and rear windows blew out and there was considerable flexibility of the hardtop allowing the front screen to partially unseat.
This car cost well north of £20,000.00 and has required a substantial extra amount of money to get it to a usable condition.
The anti-roll bar was a joke. The roll over bar was never MSA legal despite being specified in the order. Thw wiring was poor ( starter and alternator ceased working at various times). These items had to be replaced (by competent motorsport providers) The pedal box had large gaps requiring the bulkhead to be modified and gussetted. The chassis was about 1/4" out of true laterally at the front resulting in negative camber on one side and positive on the other even with all available adjustment used, caster was also nearly zero ( non adjustable ) resulting in near total lack of steering feel - new fully adjustable wishbones now being built to address this problem!!. At speed the side and rear windows blew out and there was considerable flexibility of the hardtop allowing the front screen to partially unseat.
This car cost well north of £20,000.00 and has required a substantial extra amount of money to get it to a usable condition.
Sounds like you did more than 'have a look' - it wouldn't be so obvious as 'you've bought a 'LEMON' and now have 'sour grapes'... yes/no?!
And you didn't answer the obvious question.
Which 'new' Dare G4 was it? I think I know all the ones that have appeared up for sale.
There are some rubbish ones out there IF you don't know what you are looking for, but they don't start off like that. If they all had suspension set ups like that I don't think they'd win much, but the contrary is true.
As for the side and rear windows blew out at speed, obviously wasn't the car I did and indicated 135 in then
There are also fakes out there you know - anything good in short supply gets...
And you didn't answer the obvious question.
Which 'new' Dare G4 was it? I think I know all the ones that have appeared up for sale.
There are some rubbish ones out there IF you don't know what you are looking for, but they don't start off like that. If they all had suspension set ups like that I don't think they'd win much, but the contrary is true.
As for the side and rear windows blew out at speed, obviously wasn't the car I did and indicated 135 in then
There are also fakes out there you know - anything good in short supply gets...
Edited by dandarez on Saturday 19th December 20:38
I think we know the G4 MikeG145 is talking about and, if it is the one we think it is then the owner writes lyrically about it on another chatroom, and sounds very happy with it (and yes, he is getting adjustable wishbones made at Crossle). Perhaps it is the owner's opinion we should be interested in - I don't think he plans to sell the car...
It is no secret that there were things that needed to be attended to on our G4 (which Ginetta Heritage attended to for us), but that does not make the G4 a bad car. We still love it, but the opportunity to buy a new Porsche in the summer came up and we cannot justify three road sportscars in this house (we have the Z3 as well) - if that had not come about, then the G4 would still be here in our garage and we would be very proud to own it. It has its flaws, but it will always be a Work of Art in my eyes and Works of Art don't come cheap....
It is no secret that there were things that needed to be attended to on our G4 (which Ginetta Heritage attended to for us), but that does not make the G4 a bad car. We still love it, but the opportunity to buy a new Porsche in the summer came up and we cannot justify three road sportscars in this house (we have the Z3 as well) - if that had not come about, then the G4 would still be here in our garage and we would be very proud to own it. It has its flaws, but it will always be a Work of Art in my eyes and Works of Art don't come cheap....
Edited by Broomsticklady on Saturday 19th December 21:12
geeeman said:
(lwb race spec)
Please excuse a foreigner for interrupting - lwb? What is the meaning of that? Edit: LongWheelBase, maybe?
Could "race spec" explain the difference in right hand and left hand front wheel alignment - a set up that will work better at a more or less circle track?
"windows blowing out"... Not being detached from the car, but an opening between the flexible lexan window and the hardtop allows a pressure difference to be reduced. Thereby reducing wind drag and increasing top speed.
There are a lot of tricks in the racing that may seem odd or even incorrect to a layman.
Tom
humble wannabe racer.
Edited by GinELla on Sunday 20th December 14:08
Regarding the Elise / G4 / G20 debate I can offer the following:
The Elise is a much more complete car than a G20, well built, but way too muted for my taste. The Ginetta is much more fun from a driving experience point of view. Granted the elise has a roof and windows, and wipers, but my Ginetta makes me feel like I am driving a race car where the Elise is a fast sports car. When I drove a friend's Elise I had to keep checking the gauges to see what was happening where in the Ginetta I can always go by sound. Here the Elise is at least about a 50% premium, and I'd go for Ginetta G20 (again) if I was looking to buy today.
Driving through the mountains I think the G20 would edge out the Elise with equal drivers. On more open roads the Elise would surely win out.
The Elise always looks good to me in photos, but in person I prefer the look of the Ginetta.
BT
The Elise is a much more complete car than a G20, well built, but way too muted for my taste. The Ginetta is much more fun from a driving experience point of view. Granted the elise has a roof and windows, and wipers, but my Ginetta makes me feel like I am driving a race car where the Elise is a fast sports car. When I drove a friend's Elise I had to keep checking the gauges to see what was happening where in the Ginetta I can always go by sound. Here the Elise is at least about a 50% premium, and I'd go for Ginetta G20 (again) if I was looking to buy today.
Driving through the mountains I think the G20 would edge out the Elise with equal drivers. On more open roads the Elise would surely win out.
The Elise always looks good to me in photos, but in person I prefer the look of the Ginetta.
BT
By the way there is a nice looking G4 available in the US at www.newenglandclassics.com
Good price too (compared to other G4's that have been sold in the past year).
The specific page for the G4 is here:
http://www.newenglandclassics.com/cars/NE-1961-8/
BT
Good price too (compared to other G4's that have been sold in the past year).
The specific page for the G4 is here:
http://www.newenglandclassics.com/cars/NE-1961-8/
BT
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