Ford motor company has lost it

[E63eeeeee...]

BunkMoreland said:

A500leroy said:

Dacia can manage it, 15k for the new spring.

They're claiming 130odd miles WLTP (Which really means 80-90) 45HP

Its not going to be a premium product is it! Its definitely not what people will expect from a hypothetical KA-EV

Does anyone really think the KA is premium? Surely only if they've never driven one. Or seen one.

[Silvanus]

E63eeeeee... said:

BunkMoreland said:

A500leroy said:

Dacia can manage it, 15k for the new spring.

They're claiming 130odd miles WLTP (Which really means 80-90) 45HP

Its not going to be a premium product is it! Its definitely not what people will expect from a hypothetical KA-EV

Does anyone really think the KA is premium? Surely only if they've never driven one. Or seen one.

Ka is definitely not premium in the slightest. The last model was designed for the South America and Indian market, doesn't feel up to European standards (cars like the Up and Piccanto are much nicer), probably the reason it didn't sell too well. The pre face-lift Spring is supposedly getting over 100 miles on a charge in winter.

[dxg]

Mikebentley said:

Not cheap but they are releasing the Explorer EV.

Which is a VW

[BunkMoreland]

Silvanus said:

E63eeeeee... said:

BunkMoreland said:

A500leroy said:

Dacia can manage it, 15k for the new spring.

They're claiming 130odd miles WLTP (Which really means 80-90) 45HP

Its not going to be a premium product is it! Its definitely not what people will expect from a hypothetical KA-EV

Does anyone really think the KA is premium? Surely only if they've never driven one. Or seen one.

Ka is definitely not premium in the slightest. The last model was designed for the South America and Indian market, doesn't feel up to European standards (cars like the Up and Piccanto are much nicer), probably the reason it didn't sell too well. The pre face-lift Spring is supposedly getting over 100 miles on a charge in winter.

A Ford will always be seen as more desirable than a Dacia by the masses.

But that's my point. People want a "premium" small EV for "cheap" And I'm telling you its not possible,

The EV-UP and EV Picanto (if such a thing ever exists) will be MORE expensive than their IC twin brothers.

[Silvanus]

BunkMoreland said:

Silvanus said:

E63eeeeee... said:

BunkMoreland said:

A500leroy said:

Dacia can manage it, 15k for the new spring.

They're claiming 130odd miles WLTP (Which really means 80-90) 45HP

Its not going to be a premium product is it! Its definitely not what people will expect from a hypothetical KA-EV

Does anyone really think the KA is premium? Surely only if they've never driven one. Or seen one.

Ka is definitely not premium in the slightest. The last model was designed for the South America and Indian market, doesn't feel up to European standards (cars like the Up and Piccanto are much nicer), probably the reason it didn't sell too well. The pre face-lift Spring is supposedly getting over 100 miles on a charge in winter.

A Ford will always be seen as more desirable than a Dacia by the masses.

But that's my point. People want a "premium" small EV for "cheap" And I'm telling you its not possible,

The EV-UP and EV Picanto (if such a thing ever exists) will be MORE expensive than their IC twin brothers.

I agree with regards cost, the VW eUp! Was a fair bit pricier than the ICE version. But I'm not sure I entirely agree with Fords being more desirable than Dacia, it entirely depends on the model, the Puma has proven very popular but the rest of their mainstream models are very uninspiring and the motoring equivalent of magnolia.

[Mikebentley]

dxg said:

Mikebentley said:

Not cheap but they are releasing the Explorer EV.

Which is a VW [/quote

Hold the front page. Ford in platform sharing shocker. Don’t really see your point. It doesn’t look like any European VW and is I’m guessing built on a shared EV Skateboard platform. New Caddy and Connect share too I believe.

[Oliver Hardy]

HTP99 said:

Other manufacturers will do the same at somepoint when they are struggling to hit the 22% of EV sales penetration vs ICE, it won't be exclusive to Ford.

The EV sales target rise every year, for cars is as follows


2024 22%
2025 28%
2026 33%
2027 38%
2028 52%
2029 66%
2030 80%
2035 100%


This is for vans
2024 10%
2025 16%
2026 24%
2027 34%
2028 46%
2029 58%
2030 70%

On TV the other day was a lady from stellantis saying they will be struggling to meet the requirements by 2030 and be looking at the UK market and the range of vehicles it sells here. She talked about 5000 jobs being at risk

[Sheepshanks]

A500leroy said:

Dacia can manage it, 15k for the new spring.

EVs are $10K in China. Certain buyers can get Tesla Model 3 for $22K in the US.

Look at Motability deals on EVs in the UK - there’s no VAT but the overall package pricing is astonishingly low and shows where pricing could be if manufacturers wanted to.

[CLK-GTR]

Sheepshanks said:

EVs are $10K in China. Certain buyers can get Tesla Model 3 for $22K in the US.

Look at Motability deals on EVs in the UK - there’s no VAT but the overall package pricing is astonishingly low and shows where pricing could be if manufacturers wanted to.

They're not making massive margins so either we are subsidising other markets or there's something else going on that requires the high pricing.

[cptsideways]

So many manufacturers have chased premium pricing it's difficult to backtrack. The 40k price point is also going to effect so many EV,s too. Unless the European legacy manufacturers do an about turn soon they will be in big trouble.

Looks like Ford are chasing the van market, which will also be flooded with Chinese EV vans soon.

This is where the Chinese are going to clean up, high volume means low cost to produce. The volumes of the Chinese market are quite staggering.

[ironv8]

I’m on a few tradesman’s fb groups (as I’m a tradesman) the problems with new Tranny vans and the tales of multiple days wasted whilst the dealer tries to fix it. are very disappointing , combined with the ease with which your tools can be stolen from what should be a reliable product.
The moment the Chinese sell a competent, secure , well priced van, Ford are screwed.

[Matthen]

I think so - had the local ford dealer ring me up as my PCP is approaching end date.

Bottom spec Pumas over £400 PCM.

I laughed at them. I might pay the balloon, I might get something else. Either way, I can't see them surviving if that's the best they can do.

[craigjm]

Matthen said:

I think so - had the local ford dealer ring me up as my PCP is approaching end date.

Bottom spec Pumas over £400 PCM.

I laughed at them. I might pay the balloon, I might get something else. Either way, I can't see them surviving if that's the best they can do.

How much of that is down to the jump in interest rates though? PCP cars have only been cheap because credit was cheap

[Sheepshanks]

Matthen said:

I think so - had the local ford dealer ring me up as my PCP is approaching end date.

Bottom spec Pumas over £400 PCM.

I laughed at them. I might pay the balloon, I might get something else. Either way, I can't see them surviving if that's the best they can do.

What's your current car's GFV and how does that compare to its trade-in value?

A dealer told me earlier this year that they used to be able to get people into new cars before their old deal had run out but p/x values had dropped so much that had become impossible. It's deceptive because forecourt retail used prices have remained high.

[Gas1883]

Daughter is getting constant phone calls from Ford dealer she brought her fiesta a vignale from 4 yrs ago , surprisingly they said they had new vignale avaliable ( I thought they had finished making fiestas a while ago

[fishkeeper84]

Replying because I can't create a topic, I think I must need a certain amount of replies before I can create my own...

[Master Bean]

fishkeeper84 said:

Replying because I can't create a topic, I think I must need a certain amount of replies before I can create my own...

You can start a topic in General Gassing if you're selling Dubai call girls.

[Matthen]

Sheepshanks said:

Matthen said:

I think so - had the local ford dealer ring me up as my PCP is approaching end date.

Bottom spec Pumas over £400 PCM.

I laughed at them. I might pay the balloon, I might get something else. Either way, I can't see them surviving if that's the best they can do.

What's your current car's GFV and how does that compare to its trade-in value?

A dealer told me earlier this year that they used to be able to get people into new cars before their old deal had run out but p/x values had dropped so much that had become impossible. It's deceptive because forecourt retail used prices have remained high.

I imagine there is a couple of K of equity in it - not bothered to ask yet (Will get a valuation when it goes in for its service).

Point is - (interest rates or not - and there are plenty of 0% deals around); their cars are not worth what they're asking for them. - Fully expecting them to start discounting fairly aggressively toward the end of Q3, especially if Vauxhall et. al continue to undercut them fairly significantly.

[dxg]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqrW1Zv9Zlo

Nice intro!

[HTP99]

dxg said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqrW1Zv9Zlo

Nice intro!

Oh dear Ford!