Graphics interface for the 14CUX
Discussion
Blitz .. When I was with John Ravenscroft (ex TVR factory engine guru) he was with me in a chimaera with his (presumably lucas developer) software running .. and there's a fuel trim learned when the car is stationary, at idle, with full working temperature and stable idle and throttle inputs at idle. The ecu then learns a trim which is applied over the whole rev range. live lambda trimming is then applied on top of that trim. It's the long term adapted trim learned at idle that's cleared by disconnecting the ecu. This is what he described to me 15+ years ago so i hope I remembered it correctly. Does it tie in with what you're seeing on the diagnostics ?
I'd love to buy whatever is required to get this up and running for me (Im rubbish at electronics level stuff!) .. I've always shied away from mapping the Lucas because you never know what the live trim and adapted trim is being applied by the lambdas so you don' know how far the base map is out .. if these can now be read it makes mapping the Lucas a real possibility.
I'd love to buy whatever is required to get this up and running for me (Im rubbish at electronics level stuff!) .. I've always shied away from mapping the Lucas because you never know what the live trim and adapted trim is being applied by the lambdas so you don' know how far the base map is out .. if these can now be read it makes mapping the Lucas a real possibility.
spitfire4v8 said:
Blitz .. When I was with John Ravenscroft (ex TVR factory engine guru) he was with me in a chimaera with his (presumably lucas developer) software running .. and there's a fuel trim learned when the car is stationary, at idle, with full working temperature and stable idle and throttle inputs at idle. The ecu then learns a trim which is applied over the whole rev range. live lambda trimming is then applied on top of that trim. It's the long term adapted trim learned at idle that's cleared by disconnecting the ecu. This is what he described to me 15+ years ago so i hope I remembered it correctly. Does it tie in with what you're seeing on the diagnostics ?
I'd love to buy whatever is required to get this up and running for me (Im rubbish at electronics level stuff!) .. I've always shied away from mapping the Lucas because you never know what the live trim and adapted trim is being applied by the lambdas so you don' know how far the base map is out .. if these can now be read it makes mapping the Lucas a real possibility.
I got exactly the results you describe when testing the units lambda response after a reset- and the really good news after a bit more testing is both the Long term and Short term trim are available from the 14CUX- I managed to get both readings on some test software from Colin Bourossa last night. As you say the long term trim says so much about the overall mapping state of the car,or if sensor inputs are wrong, where the ECU is still coping. The jump from this to re mapping is quite a big one, as all we have at the moment is the basic map load point data tables based on airflow and RPM, and even if you know a specific load point that runs rich or lean at a specific RPM so you change it, that same load point may also be used at a different RPM / airflow, so I dont know the effect it will have. I need to download a test copy of WinOLS and see if I can work outs whats going on, now I have more data. I'd love to buy whatever is required to get this up and running for me (Im rubbish at electronics level stuff!) .. I've always shied away from mapping the Lucas because you never know what the live trim and adapted trim is being applied by the lambdas so you don' know how far the base map is out .. if these can now be read it makes mapping the Lucas a real possibility.
Edited by blitzracing on Wednesday 20th June 12:16
Edited by blitzracing on Wednesday 20th June 16:48
v8hotwire said:
Gentle reminder :-)
Arrived, and what an excellent piece of kit! Thanks Mark, really good work mate. 
All worked first time, by following the instructions in the pack.
The downside is that it has not helped me solve why the car won't start.
Oh well, can't have it all I suppose
v8hotwire said:
Arrived, and what an excellent piece of kit! Thanks Mark, really good work mate.
All worked first time, by following the instructions in the pack.
The downside is that it has not helped me solve why the car won't start.
Oh well, can't have it all I suppose
You should start a new thread. First of, do the diagnostics show an RPM signal when cranking? - yes - check fuel relay, no - check negative feed from coil to ecu.All worked first time, by following the instructions in the pack.
The downside is that it has not helped me solve why the car won't start.
Oh well, can't have it all I suppose
Then are you getting a spark and have you got fuel pressure?
Are- as said this is a fuel / ECU only diagnostic, and it only has one feed from the ignition but I would think you should get an RPM reading from the rev counter as you crank the engine if the ignition primary is firing. The diagnostic wont pick up no fuel pressure, but you can at least switch the pump on and off and listen to it.
blitzracing said:
Are- as said this is a fuel / ECU only diagnostic, and it only has one feed from the ignition but I would think you should get an RPM reading from the rev counter as you crank the engine if the ignition primary is firing. The diagnostic wont pick up no fuel pressure, but you can at least switch the pump on and off and listen to it.
Sounds like this is getting better by the day, what is your sum up of what you can do with this software now? Is there more to come?eliot said:
You should start a new thread. First of, do the diagnostics show an RPM signal when cranking? - yes - check fuel relay, no - check negative feed from coil to ecu.
Then are you getting a spark and have you got fuel pressure?
Jut done it Then are you getting a spark and have you got fuel pressure?
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...Back to the Rovergauge and the lead supplied by Mark, it is absolutely superb. The quality of the cable that Mark makes is top notch, and the instructions he supplies really clear and simple. I'm going to spread the word!
Edited by v8hotwire on Sunday 24th June 14:39
Ribol said:
blitzracing said:
Are- as said this is a fuel / ECU only diagnostic, and it only has one feed from the ignition but I would think you should get an RPM reading from the rev counter as you crank the engine if the ignition primary is firing. The diagnostic wont pick up no fuel pressure, but you can at least switch the pump on and off and listen to it.
Sounds like this is getting better by the day, what is your sum up of what you can do with this software now? Is there more to come?"Read" inputs:
Water temp.
Fuel Temp.
Speedo signal.
RPM.
Target idle speed (as set in Eprom)
Supply voltage
Stepper position.
Throttle pot voltage
AFM voltage.
Current fuel map number and live load positions in the map, Fuel map adjustment (engine size scaling).
Fuel pump status.
Gear status (for auto boxes)
Fault codes
Lambda trim offsets (see below)
Copy Eprom contents.
Sensor logging facility.(text based)
"Write" inputs:
Position the stepper motor
Turn the fuel pump on and off
Clear fault codes
Current developments:
Lambda trim displays.
At the moment you can have either the ECU short fuel trim or long fuel trim, but it requires a different library file to be used for either display, and the graphic display does not support both trims at the same time. The trim values show how much the ECU has to trim the amount of fuel from base map setting to get the lambda probes to switch correctly. It has 255 steps available in total so it starts at position 128 (mid point) and adds trim to remove fuel (shown as 0 to + 100% )or subtracts trim to make the mixture richer (shown as 0 to -100%), so this goes the opposite way you would expect. This value is what the ECU is applying to get the mixture right, NOT what the lambda outputs are. So if a Lambdas voltage output is reading rich at say 1 volt the ECU, the ECU adds a positive trim value, and if the Lambda voltage is 0 volts reading lean, the ECU removes fuel trim.
The long term trim value does not change much once set, and far as I can see at the moment, will only alter if a lambda stops switching (rich or lean) for a period at idle. Ive not managed to get mine to move from a very good +3% even by boosting the fuel pressure, as the short term trim simply compensates within its range, so the Lambdas keep switching. I think I need to put the wrong fuel chip to introduce a big fueling error in, to see when the long term fuel trim changes. The short term trim simply changes the mixture on a second by second basis, and can be seen by a constantly fluctuating reading if all's well.
There will be an update to put both long and short trim levels one one display, and some additional fault code information as not all the codes are listed, but not forgetting this software is FREEWARE, and this extreme thanks to Colin and Dan Bourassa, for being so generous with both their skill and time at cracking this so far and not charging us a Cent, I suspect we will owe them many beers!
Edited by blitzracing on Saturday 30th June 18:59
Finally got round to plugging in and getting it all up and running - absolute doddle, thanks to Mark for the lead, Colin and Dan for the software.
Only had time for a quick play with the car idling in the garage, but already have loads of questions!
So, I have a 1995 Griff 500, completely standard. Stuff that looks ok:-
Running map 5
Adjustment factor 0x6784
All temps and gauges working as expected, no fault codes showing
Stuff that is probably not great:-
Speedo packed in a few weeks ago, so road speed jumped up to the traditional 36 mph when I started up, then went to zero. I'm guessing it'll stay at zero when I'm on the move - am I causing any damage by leaving it? (was planning to fix speedo over Winter).
No ground plug on 3 pin connector
TPS only showing 0 to 80% over the full pedal travel. No dead spots, assume its worth adjusting to get closer to 100%?
Stuff that I have no idea about (values taken once fully warmed up):-
Lambda trim settled down until showing -67% on left and -25% on right
Idle bypass settled at 42%, idling nicely around 930 (target idle 900)
Any advice welcome - once again, many thanks to the guys who made this valuable tool available
Only had time for a quick play with the car idling in the garage, but already have loads of questions!
So, I have a 1995 Griff 500, completely standard. Stuff that looks ok:-
Running map 5
Adjustment factor 0x6784
All temps and gauges working as expected, no fault codes showing
Stuff that is probably not great:-
Speedo packed in a few weeks ago, so road speed jumped up to the traditional 36 mph when I started up, then went to zero. I'm guessing it'll stay at zero when I'm on the move - am I causing any damage by leaving it? (was planning to fix speedo over Winter).
No ground plug on 3 pin connector
TPS only showing 0 to 80% over the full pedal travel. No dead spots, assume its worth adjusting to get closer to 100%?
Stuff that I have no idea about (values taken once fully warmed up):-
Lambda trim settled down until showing -67% on left and -25% on right
Idle bypass settled at 42%, idling nicely around 930 (target idle 900)
Any advice welcome - once again, many thanks to the guys who made this valuable tool available
You have nothing to worry about there basically, and Id expect you will get a speed reading once the car is moving- I think it would have thrown a fault code otherwise. The throttle pot needs tweaking to get a 5% reading with the throttle shut, as less than this could be mistaken by 0 volts by the ECU and it can throw a TP error. The fuel trim values you have are fine- but its the long term fuel trim, the basic mixture setting the ECU sets with a warm engine and at idle, and the two sides of the V8 can be different without any issues. The latest version of RoverGauge now has extra error codes and switchable long / short term fuel trim and the short term is useful for looking at the live fueling status of the engine at different RPM bands, that you cant see with the long term trim. It also has some tweaks to the AFM scaling.
Download here
http://code.google.com/p/rovergauge/downloads/deta...
Download here
http://code.google.com/p/rovergauge/downloads/deta...
blitzracing said:
Ribol said:
blitzracing said:
Are- as said this is a fuel / ECU only diagnostic, and it only has one feed from the ignition but I would think you should get an RPM reading from the rev counter as you crank the engine if the ignition primary is firing. The diagnostic wont pick up no fuel pressure, but you can at least switch the pump on and off and listen to it.
Sounds like this is getting better by the day, what is your sum up of what you can do with this software now? Is there more to come?
Just a quick note to say a big thanks to Mark and the software developers, the lead and software worked perfectly and helped me track down what was becoming a significant problem quickly. Car is now running like a dream (touch wood) and i would recommend this bit of kit to anyone still running a 14cux, superb.
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