Waterless Engine Coolant

Waterless Engine Coolant

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Discussion

TOV!E

Original Poster:

2,016 posts

177 months

Wednesday 17th October 2012
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Hi, after seeing this stuff on wheeler dearlers last night i would like to know if is alright to use in our TVRs.......??????????????????????????

teamHOLDENracing

5,039 posts

210 months

Wednesday 17th October 2012
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I use Evans in my LS3 powered race Sagaris, having previously suffered damage to an LS6 from detonation.

It doesn't make the car run any cooler but it does mean that if it does run very hot (e.g. if we are held on the grid or getting out on track), we don't get localised boiling in the cylinder heads and lose a piston from det.

Have now done 2 seasons with no issues. Rollcentre/Mosler Europe also use it in their LS7 Moslers.

It is flamable though, and very slippery if spilt (and it doesn't evaporate). So you do need to be careful with it and make sure your hoses etc are in good condition, as Evans coolant plus exhaust could lead to a fire.


jackdale

3 posts

14 months

Tuesday 24th July 2018
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not true that Evans waterless coolant is flammable please read what evans says about it ! as it is under no pressure it is unlikely to boil over ! and only in the perfect conditions could it be flammable all rad fluid could theoreticly burn ! but not bloody likely !

blaze_away

896 posts

156 months

Tuesday 24th July 2018
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jackdale said:
not true that Evans waterless coolant is flammable please read what evans says about it ! as it is under no pressure it is unlikely to boil over ! and only in the perfect conditions could it be flammable all rad fluid could theoreticly burn ! but not bloody likely !
Despite what is claimed I am sorry but I have to disagree having witnessed it catch fire in a TVR DUNLOP CHALLENGE RACE Chimeara in 2017. It does burn.

Sardonicus

16,149 posts

164 months

Tuesday 24th July 2018
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I quote ......"I've had a bad experience with Evans coolant. I had a KTM sx450 that had Evans coolant in it the y-pipe broke between the two radiators and hit the hot header pipe the bike caught on fire. luckily we got the fire put out and was able to save the bike for another day" I dislike products that dont do as they claim also
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Plmd_Rrcn8

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Shanksy87

106 posts

65 months

Tuesday 24th July 2018
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I would avoid this personally.

A coolant/water mixture has the benefit of boiling around hotspots in the water jacket to rapidly cool the block through the state change process, therefore preventing serious block damage. Waterless coolant seems to promote this as a benefit which feel naive at best as chances are you end up masking a problem that should really be resolved if you're boiling coolant frequently.

I'm also unsure how running at zero pressure offers a tangible benefit as the system is fundamentally designed to work under pressure, as such solving a problem that doesn't exist.


cjb44

329 posts

61 months

Tuesday 24th July 2018
quotequote all
teamHOLDENracing said:
I use Evans in my LS3 powered race Sagaris, having previously suffered damage to an LS6 from detonation.

It doesn't make the car run any cooler but it does mean that if it does run very hot (e.g. if we are held on the grid or getting out on track), we don't get localised boiling in the cylinder heads and lose a piston from det.

Have now done 2 seasons with no issues. Rollcentre/Mosler Europe also use it in their LS7 Moslers.

It is flamable though, and very slippery if spilt (and it doesn't evaporate). So you do need to be careful with it and make sure your hoses etc are in good condition, as Evans coolant plus exhaust could lead to a fire.
I was under the impression that this type of coolant was not allowed for racing, am I mistaken.

Toltec

5,739 posts

166 months

Tuesday 24th July 2018
quotequote all
Shanksy87 said:
I would avoid this personally.

A coolant/water mixture has the benefit of boiling around hotspots in the water jacket to rapidly cool the block through the state change process, therefore preventing serious block damage. Waterless coolant seems to promote this as a benefit which feel naive at best as chances are you end up masking a problem that should really be resolved if you're boiling coolant frequently.

I'm also unsure how running at zero pressure offers a tangible benefit as the system is fundamentally designed to work under pressure, as such solving a problem that doesn't exist.
Interesting, I hadn't thought about that, however providing there is sufficient flow then the state changes are a good way to distribute the heat into the bulk of the coolant from small area hotspots. I know it is important that there is a restriction in the outflow from the head so that the pressure in the head is much higher than in the rest of the system.

Mr2Mike

20,143 posts

198 months

Tuesday 24th July 2018
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Evans coolant has lower specific heat capacity and is more viscous than water/antifreeze mix i.e. circulates more slowly and absorbs less heat, meaning engine temperature increases are very likely, and indeed Evans do admit this if you wade through their website.

It is also indisputably flammable.

Sardonicus

16,149 posts

164 months

Tuesday 24th July 2018
quotequote all
Mr2Mike said:
Evans coolant has lower specific heat capacity and is more viscous than water/antifreeze mix i.e. circulates more slowly and absorbs less heat, meaning engine temperature increases are very likely, and indeed Evans do admit this if you wade through their website.

It is also indisputably flammable.
rofl ...Quote.... Does Evans burn? "It burns like a mutha fka" laugh brilliant straight to the point 10 mins & 30 seconds into vid hehe

julian64

12,793 posts

197 months

Tuesday 24th July 2018
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It is meant to have the one big advantage of no corrosion to the metal though. Even with inhibitors a normal water engine will leave corrosion behind. I understood the oil based coolants didn't do this so the inside of the water parts stays pristine.


Sardonicus

16,149 posts

164 months

Tuesday 24th July 2018
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Here is your corrosion for G12 coolant (red 5 year) filled all alloy engine, with G12 fitted by me since 2002 car is 2000 year changed last year because of bearing failure after 150k miles, coolant was renewed 5 yearly approx, its a family members car so I know the history, original rad and hoses with no furring to ali hose barbs etc note pump impeller ......................



Edited by Sardonicus on Tuesday 24th July 16:02

GAjon

2,988 posts

156 months

Tuesday 24th July 2018
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if this allows your engine to run hot and not blow the pressure cap ( your fuse if you will) everything, including your oil is running outside it’s working temperature causing damage?

I use water wetter, which also has a reputation to be nonsense, but makes me feel better and won’t mask a problem.

Sardonicus

16,149 posts

164 months

Tuesday 24th July 2018
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My problem being why would you want cylinder head temps to run hotter than with regular coolant/water mix? from a performance point of view this makes no sense to me frown its certainly not beneficial rolleyes and the whole cooling system not no longer pressurised means jack st

Mr2Mike

20,143 posts

198 months

Tuesday 24th July 2018
quotequote all
julian64 said:
It is meant to have the one big advantage of no corrosion to the metal though. Even with inhibitors a normal water engine will leave corrosion behind. I understood the oil based coolants didn't do this so the inside of the water parts stays pristine.
Conventional coolants work fine provided they are replaced at the correct intervals. The corrosion inhibitors get used up with age until nothing is left and corrosion starts.

julian64

12,793 posts

197 months

Wednesday 25th July 2018
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Mr2Mike said:
julian64 said:
It is meant to have the one big advantage of no corrosion to the metal though. Even with inhibitors a normal water engine will leave corrosion behind. I understood the oil based coolants didn't do this so the inside of the water parts stays pristine.
Conventional coolants work fine provided they are replaced at the correct intervals. The corrosion inhibitors get used up with age until nothing is left and corrosion starts.
Not been my experience. Cars with adequately replaced inhibitor, and likewise in house heating systems have all suffered from corrosion in my experience.

I might try one of these new systems,, but they are certainly a lot more expensive if you have a leak.

Sardonicus

16,149 posts

164 months

Wednesday 25th July 2018
quotequote all
julian64 said:
Mr2Mike said:
julian64 said:
It is meant to have the one big advantage of no corrosion to the metal though. Even with inhibitors a normal water engine will leave corrosion behind. I understood the oil based coolants didn't do this so the inside of the water parts stays pristine.
Conventional coolants work fine provided they are replaced at the correct intervals. The corrosion inhibitors get used up with age until nothing is left and corrosion starts.
Not been my experience. Cars with adequately replaced inhibitor, and likewise in house heating systems have all suffered from corrosion in my experience.

I might try one of these new systems,, but they are certainly a lot more expensive if you have a leak.
Not in my opinion scratchchin I have been on the tools for the last 33 years coolant changed on time and with quality brands virtually no corrosion and in recent years with serviced on time OAT based coolants results are the same as the above picture near 0 visible furring or corrosion wink just my experience thats all

Penelope Stopit

4,588 posts

52 months

Wednesday 25th July 2018
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Sardonicus said:
Here is your corrosion for G12 coolant (red 5 year) filled all alloy engine, with G12 fitted by me since 2002 car is 2000 year changed last year because of bearing failure after 150k miles, coolant was renewed 5 yearly approx, its a family members car so I know the history, original rad and hoses with no furring to ali hose barbs etc note pump impeller ......................



Edited by Sardonicus on Tuesday 24th July 16:02
Thanks for the info and image
What do you mean by "coolant was renewed 5 yearly approx" Is the "5" a typo error?
Why I ask is because if all goes well I will soon be putting coolant in my replacement engine and all the metal water pipes and core plugs are as new, even inside the block where the water pump impeller turns is shiny steel, I want to keep it like this if possible
I'm well impressed with the condition of the impeller in the image, my water pump impellers have been rusting away after 2 years work, the new water pump I fitted has a plastic impeller but everything else still could become a problem

TwinKam

1,211 posts

38 months

Wednesday 25th July 2018
quotequote all
Sardonicus said:
julian64 said:
Mr2Mike said:
julian64 said:
It is meant to have the one big advantage of no corrosion to the metal though. Even with inhibitors a normal water engine will leave corrosion behind. I understood the oil based coolants didn't do this so the inside of the water parts stays pristine.
Conventional coolants work fine provided they are replaced at the correct intervals. The corrosion inhibitors get used up with age until nothing is left and corrosion starts.
Not been my experience. Cars with adequately replaced inhibitor, and likewise in house heating systems have all suffered from corrosion in my experience.

I might try one of these new systems,, but they are certainly a lot more expensive if you have a leak.
Not in my opinion scratchchin I have been on the tools for the last 33 years coolant changed on time and with quality brands virtually no corrosion and in recent years with serviced on time OAT based coolants results are the same as the above picture near 0 visible furring or corrosion wink just my experience thats all
Likewise in mine (38 years and still going), cooling system corrosion is simply not an issue these days (which is just as well as there are plenty of other 'issues' with today's cars...!)

Mr2Mike

20,143 posts

198 months

Wednesday 25th July 2018
quotequote all
Penelope Stopit said:
Thanks for the info and image
What do you mean by "coolant was renewed 5 yearly approx" Is the "5" a typo error?
Why I ask is because if all goes well I will soon be putting coolant in my replacement engine and all the metal water pipes and core plugs are as new, even inside the block where the water pump impeller turns is shiny steel, I want to keep it like this if possible
I'm well impressed with the condition of the impeller in the image, my water pump impellers have been rusting away after 2 years work, the new water pump I fitted has a plastic impeller but everything else still could become a problem
5 years is about right for OAT and HOAT coolants, 3 years for the conventional silicate based coolants.