New TVR still under wraps!

New TVR still under wraps!

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eliot

8,487 posts

199 months

Saturday 4th May
quotequote all
Many people build cars in their home garage, with the myriad of automotive and motorsport facilities in the UK it would be very easy to hand build a few cars and put them through IVA and get them out for testing.
The lack of a factory is just a convenient distraction from the fact that they have no investors.

El stovey

27,720 posts

208 months

Saturday 4th May
quotequote all
I think they should have started with a cheaper Porsche boxter (but more raw) or a lotus Elise type car to get sales and processes set up and people into the brand again.

This car is far too niche to succeed as a startup and it looks too divisive.

The group of people able to buy this car isn’t that large and they have lots of other fantastic options in the price range. Sure they’re not exactly the same but very few people only want the options that this car ticks.

TVR before was sold to young people that didn’t want a Porsche (like I was) or older people whose kids had left home or they were having a mid life crisis. This car only really works for the older group now and many of them are people used to things getting done and not going to put up with this rubbish communication.

Monkeylegend

16,333 posts

176 months

Saturday 4th May
quotequote all
Do they not have development facility where they originally said they would do just that, which kind of suggests the issue is lack of investment.

Edited to say in response to eliot's post above.

Tyre Smoke

12,081 posts

206 months

Saturday 4th May
quotequote all
There is no money. It's fast running out.

Les has already said he needs more investment to even build the factory.

He should have built a few cars in a small facility, the 500 deposits should have helped that along, SVA'd the cars and got them out to the motoring press.
Instead, he's wasted tens of thousands if pounds on a vanity project to put stickers on a LMP1 car.

It looks like, with the lack of any updates, that he is conning a lot of people for his own gratification with no morals.

Gazzab

17,070 posts

227 months

Saturday 4th May
quotequote all
And now that ford are stopping manufacturing the engine too. Fubar time.

Supraman

6,777 posts

216 months

Saturday 4th May
quotequote all
It seems like Les Edgar has been over ambitious and perhaps got carried away with owning a sports car brand, trying to build a GT winning track car and going to lemans.

I agree with the previous posts. I also couldn’t see why with this fantastically efficient iStream process that we’ve been told about, why these initial cars could not be put together in a small factory unit, just to get some cars out there on the road.

Surely it is now time for Mr Edgar to come clean and tell the depositors what is really happening with their cars.


Edited by Supraman on Saturday 4th May 13:16

robsco

6,628 posts

121 months

Saturday 4th May
quotequote all
Gazzab said:
And now that ford are stopping manufacturing the engine too. Fubar time.
Is this true?

leglessAlex

3,181 posts

86 months

Saturday 4th May
quotequote all
robsco said:
Gazzab said:
And now that ford are stopping manufacturing the engine too. Fubar time.
Is this true?
Please forgive the Fox News link, but this seems to indicate that it will still be being made, just in far fewer numbers:

https://www.foxnews.com/auto/ford-coyote-v8-godzil...

But I doubt it'll last more than a few years before it gets axed completely.

bullittmcqueen

802 posts

36 months

Saturday 4th May
quotequote all

It's 2019, with 2022 new admission stuff (GPS-ISA, BlackBox, etc.) already lurking around the corner. You can't build cars in a shed anymore, at least none that will be allowed to drive on a public road. And it's hard to make it profitable even in scale. So "handbuilding in a shed" is on opposing ends with "make it 2019-regulations compliant" and "cheaper". Also i-Stream only gets you to the chassis easier, it's not popping out finished cars with the flick of a switch.

Also, trying to make a cheaper car, like a Lotus Elise, as suggested, wouldn't have made any difference. They would still have to outsource, still have to engineer, still have to get financing, still have to get type approval, still have to get a factory. At this point, they'd be in exactly the same spot with ANY car. They also couldn't have reused the Sagaris. They would have had to start from scratch there as well.

Also, whether the Griff is too expensive will only be decided once (if ever) it's out.

Taken by face value, the whole venture (leaving the general madness of starting a small scale sports car manufacturer aside) was (hopefull still is) pretty promising:

iconic British brand revival, going for the niche, tech-credibility by GM, government involvement.

The mounting headwinds are breathtaking, though. 3 years ago i would not have thought that public sentiment would swing this fast, but now we got Fridays for future, Brexit, CO2 in every second headline.

The question is not, whether we like the front of the Griff, what's ahead is a series of extinction level events for cars like this.

I'm holding on, either way.











unrepentant

19,348 posts

201 months

Saturday 4th May
quotequote all
leglessAlex said:
robsco said:
Gazzab said:
And now that ford are stopping manufacturing the engine too. Fubar time.
Is this true?
Please forgive the Fox News link, but this seems to indicate that it will still be being made, just in far fewer numbers:

https://www.foxnews.com/auto/ford-coyote-v8-godzil...

But I doubt it'll last more than a few years before it gets axed completely.
V8's generally going away. Ford offer the F-150 with a 6 cylinder ecoboost and you can even get a 6 cylinder Raptor. Mustang's can be had with a 4 banger as can the Camaro. I would have thought that Ford would want to keep the smaller numbers of V8's that they are going to produce for their own products in the US market.

N7GTX

4,006 posts

88 months

Saturday 4th May
quotequote all
8ball_Rob said:
From a quick Google search, I'd say it's the Ivanpah Solar Power Facility. I remember reading an article about this type of solar plant (concentrated solar power) in New Scientist back in the 90s and thinking that it sounded like pure science fiction Then again, I seem to remember that the article was proposing farms with central towers taller than 1km, which still is science fiction. Still, it's amazing what can be done if you throw enough time and money at a problem - now, if only they could crack fusion power build a bloody TVR...
Tidied that up a little bit wink

This thread is about to reach 500 pages. Amazing considering there is no car.

Classic Chim

9,360 posts

94 months

Saturday 4th May
quotequote all
The factory has been a smoke screen all along by the looks of it and hoping to use Brexit as an excuse or the welsh government who are incompetent blar blar
The bloke has let everyone down from day 1 and the comms suggest he and his team are incompetent or just don’t give two fks about your money. After all it’s only 5k a piece he’s spunked off you.

Testarossa

1,050 posts

166 months

Saturday 4th May
quotequote all
bullittmcqueen said:
It's 2019, with 2022 new admission stuff (GPS-ISA, BlackBox, etc.) already lurking around the corner. You can't build cars in a shed anymore, at least none that will be allowed to drive on a public road. And it's hard to make it profitable even in scale. So "handbuilding in a shed" is on opposing ends with "make it 2019-regulations compliant" and "cheaper". Also i-Stream only gets you to the chassis easier, it's not popping out finished cars with the flick of a switch.

Also, trying to make a cheaper car, like a Lotus Elise, as suggested, wouldn't have made any difference. They would still have to outsource, still have to engineer, still have to get financing, still have to get type approval, still have to get a factory. At this point, they'd be in exactly the same spot with ANY car. They also couldn't have reused the Sagaris. They would have had to start from scratch there as well.

Also, whether the Griff is too expensive will only be decided once (if ever) it's out.

Taken by face value, the whole venture (leaving the general madness of starting a small scale sports car manufacturer aside) was (hopefull still is) pretty promising:

iconic British brand revival, going for the niche, tech-credibility by GM, government involvement.

The mounting headwinds are breathtaking, though. 3 years ago i would not have thought that public sentiment would swing this fast, but now we got Fridays for future, Brexit, CO2 in every second headline.

The question is not, whether we like the front of the Griff, what's ahead is a series of extinction level events for cars like this.

I'm holding on, either way.
There is a positive take on this - we may have lost £5k but the alternatives (AMG GTR, AM Vantage, various Macs, 488, Huracan etc.) have lost more than 5k in depreciation since the unveil in 2017 smile so we are probably up when Les admits defeat. Think of it like Les's Asset Management, if he returns the money...

SEPT 2017 £5,000 purchase of TVR securities
MAY 2019 Value of purchased securities £5,000 par value - FTSE Indexed Tracker down 1.1%

Thanks Les, just don't do a public offering for your investment bank, you ain't no Morgan









Stanley.




baconsarney

9,049 posts

106 months

Saturday 4th May
quotequote all
I had my first experience of TVR nearly 50 years ago......

Sorry but probably some suck eggs here, but, this is my take......

TVR started in 1946/7, and went into liquidation briefly in September 1964... but was saved from extinction by Arthur and Martin Lilley, the company was back on its feet in around 12 months.........I worked for Caterham in 1970, and thereabouts they were a TVR agent building V6 Tuscans and four pot Vixens for customers (avoiding the dreaded purchase tax). Those cars were awesome by the standards of the day.... I owned a Cosworth powered Lotus 7 at the time, but the TVR's were something else... The company continued producing cars right through until it went in to administration in late 2006.

The current ownership started circa June 2013, now nearly 6 years ago.

I'm sorry to say this, but, and solely in my opinion, the new Griffith is no more a TVR than the BMW Mini is a Mini. It's a badge. Back in the day, my second car when youngest sprog was born (1972) was a 1275 Cooper S. I loved it... I see modern Mini's now with the Cooper badge and its just ridiculous.. but I am a dinosaur... hehe

In some ways I wish Mr Edgar had started his new sports car company with a different branding.... The marque has always had many detractors...

So, Mr Edgar and Mr iStream are trying (unsuccessfully so far) to bring a new (slightly retro) car to the market place... I just wish they hadn't called it a TVR............... Because it isn't.....

Apologies if anyone is offended by the above, it's just my (honest) opinion.....

Chilli..


glow worm

4,294 posts

172 months

Saturday 4th May
quotequote all
baconsarney said:
I had my first experience of TVR nearly 50 years ago......

Sorry but probably some suck eggs here, but, this is my take......

TVR started in 1946/7, and went into liquidation briefly in September 1964... but was saved from extinction by Arthur and Martin Lilley, the company was back on its feet in around 12 months.........I worked for Caterham in 1970, and thereabouts they were a TVR agent building V6 Tuscans and four pot Vixens for customers (avoiding the dreaded purchase tax). Those cars were awesome by the standards of the day.... I owned a Cosworth powered Lotus 7 at the time, but the TVR's were something else... The company continued producing cars right through until it went in to administration in late 2006.

The current ownership started circa June 2013, now nearly 6 years ago.

I'm sorry to say this, but, and solely in my opinion, the new Griffith is no more a TVR than the BMW Mini is a Mini. It's a badge. Back in the day, my second car when youngest sprog was born (1972) was a 1275 Cooper S. I loved it... I see modern Mini's now with the Cooper badge and its just ridiculous.. but I am a dinosaur... hehe

In some ways I wish Mr Edgar had started his new sports car company with a different branding.... The marque has always had many detractors...

So, Mr Edgar and Mr iStream are trying (unsuccessfully so far) to bring a new (slightly retro) car to the market place... I just wish they hadn't called it a TVR............... Because it isn't.....

Apologies if anyone is offended by the above, it's just my (honest) opinion.....

Chilli..
Agree Completely and he could have saved the cost of buying the TVR badge.

leglessAlex

3,181 posts

86 months

Saturday 4th May
quotequote all
baconsarney said:
I'm sorry to say this, but, and solely in my opinion, the new Griffith is no more a TVR than the BMW Mini is a Mini. It's a badge.
Why do you think that? Is it because of the engine?

Unlike MINI, TVR are not owned, built and designed by a parent company. They are will be might be designed and built by TVR themselves.

baconsarney

9,049 posts

106 months

Saturday 4th May
quotequote all
leglessAlex said:
baconsarney said:
I'm sorry to say this, but, and solely in my opinion, the new Griffith is no more a TVR than the BMW Mini is a Mini. It's a badge.
Why do you think that? Is it because of the engine?

Unlike MINI, TVR are not owned, built and designed by a parent company. They are will be might be designed and built by TVR themselves.
Hi Alex, no nothing to do with the engine at all.... I think you may have missed my point... When you say TVR themselves, It is my opinion that 'TVR themselves' ceased to exist around 2006, in fact, a few years before that even. The MG badge is another similar example of a great British marque resurrected purely by the purchase of a badge... As I said, it's just my opinion...

sjc

10,917 posts

215 months

Saturday 4th May
quotequote all
Ok... as a four time owner of new TVR’s from 1992 to 2000 and someone who regularly put deposits on as soon as a model was announced hopefully although it’s 19 years since I had one I’m qualified to make a comment. ( At one point by the end of the motorshow in 94 I owned a pre -cat Griff, had a deposit on a Griff 500 and had immediately also put a deposit on what was then the Rover V8 engined Cerb.)
So I’ll say it ....what on earth is this bloke playing at ?? By his lack of communication to those that wanted him to succeed he is, one by one, alienating each bloody one of them.In late ‘95 there were whimperings by some of the Cerb deposit holders (many who had come from other brands) as to whether this car actually existed. So TVR invited those deposit holders down to Pinewood studios and showed the pre-production cars to us and let us have a brief drive.Although they was as rough as could possibly be, at least we saw that something existed, and we felt valuable. With this blokes PR the absolute opposite is true, he’s making himself, the car and the brand become a laughing stock.
I was tentatively asked by Kerridges if I wanted to put a deposit down and it was an immediate “ no” based on what seemed fag packet stuff with a couple of big names thrown in for effect. It was no more likely to appear in 3 years as the Trident Iceni or the Arash Farboud let alone be a success.
Who’s hare -brained scheme was it to pretend to be part of a race team, does anyone honestly think that will/has helped to sell even one car ??
Get your money out, it’s not happening, the message in the lack of info is deafening and the treatment of those who have chucked 5k at him is nothing sort of disgusting.Who’d have thought that the new TVR could have learned anything about customer service and PR .. from the old TVR ?!

Tyre Smoke

12,081 posts

206 months

Saturday 4th May
quotequote all
Loving the fanboy who is trying to portray investing £5k in Les' round the world WEC tour as cheaper than losing depreciation on a AMG. rofl

Perhaps, you might have something to show for it though? Might have enjoyed blatting about?

Anyway, anyone else who wants to avoid the depreciation on a new Merc or Aston by not buying one, please PM me, I'll take your money and piss it against the wall for you. No point in nobody enjoying it.

unrepentant

19,348 posts

201 months

Saturday 4th May
quotequote all
Looking back I posted the following on July 5th 2015 on a thread about the "New TVR" and deposits etc..

The post will be having it's 4th birthday soon. Plenty of people apparently handed over $5k for "New TVR", to misquote Paul Simon "on a pocket full of mumbles, such are promises".

Still a man hears what he wants to hear, and disregards the rest. wink

Astonishingly there were few takers for my beans but I think they were a better bet. biggrin

unrepentant said:
Looks like there's some truly discerning punters on here who know a good thing when they see it.

That being the case I have recently acquired some special beans. I can't say too much at this stage but they have certain properties that will deliver a certain result that will make everyone involved very rich. I'm not prepared to discuss the exact properties of the beans or when I will be actually delivering the first batch to the lucky investors but I think I've told you enough to make it clear that I am well versed in the matter of magic beans and can be trusted with your money. At this stage I'm going to be very particular about who I let have access to the beans. I'm going to restrict supply to those believers who send me a cheque (or cash - used non sequential bills only please) by way of an initial deposit for 5000 pounds.

Mail your cheques (made out to cash) or cash to;

Unreps Magic Beans Ltd
PO Box 666
Geneva
Switzerland

I'll be in touch once enough lucky customers have signed up.







Unrep's magic beans ltd make no representation, verbally or otherwise to the quality or otherwise of any beans that may or may not exist and do not undertake to deliver said beans at any time now or in the future. All deposits are final, no refunds. In the event of any dispute contracts are executed in Somalia and any dispute arising thereof will be heard and settled in the court of Judge Unrepuncle in Mogadishu.
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