TVR's and the London ULEZ Charge

TVR's and the London ULEZ Charge

Author
Discussion

Silkyskills

Original Poster:

201 posts

60 months

Tuesday 18th February 2020
quotequote all
According to TFL's website in order to be exempt from their £12.50 per day charge your car has to meet the ULEZ standard which, for TVR's, is

Euro 4 (NOx) for petrol cars, vans, minibuses and other specialist vehicles

Euro 4 became mandatory for all new cars in 2005 and light vans in 2006

https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emissio...

I put my registration number into their vehicle checker and it came back that according to their records it was in breach of this standard and I'd have to pay. If I want to dispute this I have to send in my V5c and wait. My car is a late 2003 T-Car.

As the Euro standards had been about since 1992 surely TVR were complying with them by the 2000's? TFL say you can send in a letter from the manufacturer stating that your car meets their standard but obviously thats a non-starter with a TVR.

Anybody else enquired about this?

DCerebrate

360 posts

118 months

Tuesday 18th February 2020
quotequote all
I believe your car would have met the Euro 3 standard for NOx which was below 0.15g/km. Euro 4 is below 0.08g/km.
There is a company called cambustion which mskes NOx analysers but it is unlikely that even if your car was under that level, that TFl would accept the evidence. Best bet is to try to contact current TVR company to see if they have any legacy data on your car.
Look on the bright side - at least you can still drive in London. The proposal for Edinburgh as I understand it is that the centre will be a no go area for Euro 3 or earlier petrol cars, full stop.

Byker28i

68,373 posts

225 months

Thursday 20th February 2020
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That'll explain why there were so many Prius's yesterday in that London.
Is this the end of tunnel runs? biggrin

GAjon

3,812 posts

221 months

Thursday 20th February 2020
quotequote all
Byker28i said:
That'll explain why there were so many Prius's yesterday in that London.
Is this the end of tunnel runs? biggrin
This is the hypocrisy, you can pollute as much as you like. As long as you pay!

EvoOlli

612 posts

171 months

Thursday 20th February 2020
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Euro 1 < Euro 2 < Euro 3 < Euro 4 .......

If your T350 would be registered in Germany, it would get maximum an Euro3 and that only with some exceptions (for example the missing OBD2 Protocol) and a closed eye.
So Euro4 ist simply not possible for these cars.

2gins

2,846 posts

170 months

Thursday 20th February 2020
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The reality is that as these things become more widespread there will be an increasing amount of places where we can't go, at least not without paying extra charges.

Many may say, "doesn't matter, I don't want to drive in London/Bristol/Birmingham etc anyway", which is fine unless you happen to live in one of these places. In which case you're looking at £12.50 to take the car off the drive or £25 for a weekend away. It's quite galling to contemplate a surcharge to drive in my case less than a mile to the M4 in order to get out of the city.

But, that's the reality. It will only get worse unless we start standing up for ourselves, but without organisation and representation it's just a handful of luddites howling at the moon. You wonder what owner's clubs are for, but ours doesn't seem at all bothered about it.

The AGM is at the end of next month.

TV8

3,223 posts

183 months

Thursday 20th February 2020
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I would be amazed if Mayor Khan doesn’t extend the ULEZ outto the current LEZ boundary in the not to distant future.

Central government are intent on banning traditional engines despite the huge environmental impact of manufacture and the same on electricity generation, so a simple tweaking of the rules and timescales for ULEZ is a strong certainty in my view.

MonkeyJez

86 posts

205 months

Thursday 20th February 2020
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Just checked my 2006 registered Sag on the TfL website and it's states there is no ULEZ charge due. Just lucky I guess!

2gins

2,846 posts

170 months

Thursday 20th February 2020
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Right then, I'm buying a Sag.

TV8

3,223 posts

183 months

Thursday 20th February 2020
quotequote all
2gins said:
Right then, I'm buying a Sag.
Check the registration before buying it. I was chatting with an owner who has 5 TVRs today and he has two cars with the same version of engine and one is subject to the charge!!

2gins

2,846 posts

170 months

Thursday 20th February 2020
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It was a non serious comment. I can't afford a Sagaris. But that does highlight the other point, the online checker is not accurate. Chances are no TVRs are compliant, except the new Griffith.

PuffsBack

2,433 posts

233 months

Friday 21st February 2020
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Lol don't bet on it - my 2005 Sag isn't compliant. Must be the alloy stalks and Teddy Bear seats hitting the emissions as the engine is the same as MonkeyJez's 2006 Sag! laugh

Edited by PuffsBack on Friday 21st February 00:34

Englishman

2,237 posts

218 months

Friday 21st February 2020
quotequote all
MonkeyJez said:
Just checked my 2006 registered Sag on the TfL website and it's states there is no ULEZ charge due. Just lucky I guess!
Same for mine smile

The reason being I believe is that all cars sold after 2005 had to be Euro 4 compliant by law....

Edited by Englishman on Friday 21st February 09:22

N7GTX

8,076 posts

151 months

Friday 21st February 2020
quotequote all
Car tax based on CO2 figures of over 225g/km changed on the 23rd March 2006. So identical cars just a day apart will pay almost double in road tax after this date. Made sure my X5 was registered before this date.
Might explain the difference for Sag owners.

PuffsBack

2,433 posts

233 months

Friday 21st February 2020
quotequote all
Englishman said:
Same for mine smile

The reason being I believe is that all cars sold after 2005 had to be Euro 4 compliant by law....

Edited by Englishman on Friday 21st February 09:22
LOL so either TVR did a huge amount of regulatory work to make the engine Euro 4 compliant and get all the necessary paperwork signed off. Or the website checks date of registration and if post 2006 = pass

Now let me think which is most likely laugh

PuffsBack

2,433 posts

233 months

Friday 21st February 2020
quotequote all
N7GTX said:
Car tax based on CO2 figures of over 225g/km changed on the 23rd March 2006. So identical cars just a day apart will pay almost double in road tax after this date. Made sure my X5 was registered before this date.
Might explain the difference for Sag owners.
Same here - I had a Disco 3 registered on the 19th of March 2006 smile

N7GTX

8,076 posts

151 months

Friday 21st February 2020
quotequote all
PuffsBack said:
N7GTX said:
Car tax based on CO2 figures of over 225g/km changed on the 23rd March 2006. So identical cars just a day apart will pay almost double in road tax after this date. Made sure my X5 was registered before this date.
Might explain the difference for Sag owners.
Same here - I had a Disco 3 registered on the 19th of March 2006 smile
clap

mk1fan

10,664 posts

233 months

Friday 21st February 2020
quotequote all
The regs are that a PETROL car needs to be Euro 4 or better AND be 2005 or newer/younger. There are mistakes being made though wink and some lucky people are getting exemptions on older cars biggrin

Suni is exempt. Tamy is not. Both are Euro 4 on the V5.

2gins

2,846 posts

170 months

Friday 21st February 2020
quotequote all
mk1fan said:
The regs are that a PETROL car needs to be Euro 4 or better AND be 2005 or newer/younger. There are mistakes being made though wink and some lucky people are getting exemptions on older cars biggrin

Suni is exempt. Tamy is not. Both are Euro 4 on the V5.
No, this is wrong, I think.

https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emissio...

My understanding of the regs are that petrol cars must be Euro IV (4). End of. My 2002 TT was exempt. Same engine as a 2006 car. My 2004 Saab 9-3 wasn't, then they fixed the online checker a little bit and it was. The online checker is crap. This is well documented.

Another example of the general steness of the TFL checker - my Chimaera is apparently subject to the LEZ (NOT the same as the ULEZ) - this has been in existence since 2008 and applies only to commercial vehicles. Do not take the TFL checker as gospel.

It would be incredible for any of the late Wheeler-era TVRs to be compliant except through such errors, which will eventually be ironed out. I'm going out on a limb here but I'd be amazed to find that TVR did the R&D to develop either the AJP8 or S6 engine to Euro IV spec, and I'm pretty confident that nobody's developed filters etc to make them compliant, put them through the necessary approvals, fitted them to cars and had them certified either. The cars are not compliant, and the best you can hope for is a waiver on your first offence.

Pre-1981 cars will be exempt from 2021 on the 40 year historics rule, the rest of us are stuffed - in London, and wherever else determines to bring in such clean air zones based on Euro IV specs.

Edited by 2gins on Friday 21st February 21:21

v8sss

158 posts

234 months

Saturday 22nd February 2020
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My 95 Griff 500 is exempt whereas a friends of the same year is not...rolleyes