New TVR still under wraps! (Vol. 3)
Discussion
https://propertylink.estatesgazette.com/property-d...
Maybe its this? Roof might need repairing though
Maybe its this? Roof might need repairing though
Who the hell sunk 19 million into that outfit, I imagine all the deposits have been repaid so it wont be potential buyers, and apart from GMH building one car for them what has their actual expenditure been? say that was a mill then where has the other 18 gone!
Surely all of the creditors for that 19 mill must be asking the same, lucky to get a penny on the pound if they call in the receivers though.
Surely all of the creditors for that 19 mill must be asking the same, lucky to get a penny on the pound if they call in the receivers though.
ant550lag said:
https://propertylink.estatesgazette.com/property-d...
Maybe its this? Roof might need repairing though
Lol, deja vu springs to mind. Its only a piddling 29,000 sq ft which is a bit of a come down from the 188,000 in Welsh Wales. Maybe its this? Roof might need repairing though
PAUL.S. said:
Who the hell sunk 19 million into that outfit, I imagine all the deposits have been repaid so it wont be potential buyers, and apart from GMH building one car for them what has their actual expenditure been? say that was a mill then where has the other 18 gone!
Surely all of the creditors for that 19 mill must be asking the same, lucky to get a penny on the pound if they call in the receivers though.
Not forgetting the much publicised 'bond issue' that expires in April, just over 5 months away. So a LOT of money to be paid back with interest too. Ouch.Surely all of the creditors for that 19 mill must be asking the same, lucky to get a penny on the pound if they call in the receivers though.
BritishTvr450 said:
Viper201 said:
Lol, deja vu springs to mind. Its only a piddling 29,000 sq ft which is a bit of a come down from the 188,000 in Welsh Wales.
He’s only got one car to park in it 
t in them....If the airfields I've worked on are anything to go by the breeze is likely to be constant and also freezing.
He probably decided the gas bill will outway any profit he might make from a few car and T shirt sales.
When he talked about a brand centre I envisioned a very small unit, the sort you get on “start up” company type Industial estates where your employing a few locals on minimum wage
PAUL.S. said:
Who the hell sunk 19 million into that outfit, I imagine all the deposits have been repaid so it wont be potential buyers, and apart from GMH building one car for them what has their actual expenditure been? say that was a mill then where has the other 18 gone!
Surely all of the creditors for that 19 mill must be asking the same, lucky to get a penny on the pound if they call in the receivers though.
TVR as an entity was based on property owned by LE though, so for the best part of a decade TVR has probably been paying rent to another of LE's LTDs. That and 7 full time salaries. Surely all of the creditors for that 19 mill must be asking the same, lucky to get a penny on the pound if they call in the receivers though.
At a guess:
Lets say 50k per year on the offices and running costs. = 500k
7 Salaries on a conservative average of 70k for 8 years (all the positions seem to have been 'head of' or something) = 3.9mil.
Branding, web/graphic design and legal costs probably bring it up to 4.5mil ish.
Before any Gordon Murray/Prototype spend. The way they've been doing it it wouldn't be hard at all to have sunk >20mil over the last decade. All without selling any cars. Not even a continuation. They should have bought/set up a specialist from day one and started offering an official TVR workshop and sales. But apparently outsourcing every single thing is the way forward?
Honestly they've messed this up so badly something doesn't smell right.
BritishTvr450 said:
If the airfields I've worked on are anything to go by the breeze is likely to be constant and also freezing.
He probably decided the gas bill will outway any profit he might make from a few car and T shirt sales.
When he talked about a brand centre I envisioned a very small unit, the sort you get on “start up” company type Industial estates where your employing a few locals on minimum wage
Or you could take the view that back in 2014 they thought they could build and sell the kind of car that people in 2014 would want to buy - a powerful interesting sports car for around the £100k mark (so perhaps a similar cost to the 1992 Griffith after adding on 22 years inflation) that would be road legal and up to the relevant standards.
They got excited about it, got a team together and raised the funds to build the first car, using the services of a recognised sports car designer, and then set about getting deposits for the first wave of production cars, enough orders to interest potential backers for the production funding.
The market for such cars, indeed all cars, has changed dramatically in a very short time since the prototype was first shown to the public, enough to discourage potential investors. It has only changed even more since then. For example, I manage a small company car fleet. Back in 2014 it consisted of 4 diesel and one petrol car. In 2024 it now consists of 5 electric cars and 5 hybrids. But the first hybrid bought by the company was bought in 2016.
The only question is why they haven't closed the whole thing down, but I guess that's only a mater of time.
They got excited about it, got a team together and raised the funds to build the first car, using the services of a recognised sports car designer, and then set about getting deposits for the first wave of production cars, enough orders to interest potential backers for the production funding.
The market for such cars, indeed all cars, has changed dramatically in a very short time since the prototype was first shown to the public, enough to discourage potential investors. It has only changed even more since then. For example, I manage a small company car fleet. Back in 2014 it consisted of 4 diesel and one petrol car. In 2024 it now consists of 5 electric cars and 5 hybrids. But the first hybrid bought by the company was bought in 2016.
The only question is why they haven't closed the whole thing down, but I guess that's only a mater of time.
crosseyedlion said:
TVR as an entity was based on property owned by LE though, so for the best part of a decade TVR has probably been paying rent to another of LE's LTDs. That and 7 full time salaries.
At a guess:
Lets say 50k per year on the offices and running costs. = 500k
7 Salaries on a conservative average of 70k for 8 years (all the positions seem to have been 'head of' or something) = 3.9mil.
Branding, web/graphic design and legal costs probably bring it up to 4.5mil ish.
Before any Gordon Murray/Prototype spend. The way they've been doing it it wouldn't be hard at all to have sunk >20mil over the last decade. All without selling any cars. Not even a continuation. They should have bought/set up a specialist from day one and started offering an official TVR workshop and sales. But apparently outsourcing every single thing is the way forward?
Honestly they've messed this up so badly something doesn't smell right.
He certainly has a lot of charges against his farm which must run to a lot of millions.At a guess:
Lets say 50k per year on the offices and running costs. = 500k
7 Salaries on a conservative average of 70k for 8 years (all the positions seem to have been 'head of' or something) = 3.9mil.
Branding, web/graphic design and legal costs probably bring it up to 4.5mil ish.
Before any Gordon Murray/Prototype spend. The way they've been doing it it wouldn't be hard at all to have sunk >20mil over the last decade. All without selling any cars. Not even a continuation. They should have bought/set up a specialist from day one and started offering an official TVR workshop and sales. But apparently outsourcing every single thing is the way forward?
Honestly they've messed this up so badly something doesn't smell right.
TVR Automotive - 1 charge against the farm - probably the £2m loan via the CBILS - Fiduciam his main lender.
TVR Electric Vehicles - 1 charge against Lister House (or Griffith House now) which is leased - Fiduciam
TVR Finance - 1 charge against the farm - Audacia the bond issuer
Heritage Farms - 5 charges against the farm - Fiduciam
HFL Property Services Ltd (Development of Building Services) - 2 charges against the farm - Hampshire Trust Bank
Interesting video of Harry Metcalfe on the sport cars market and the huge depreciations https://youtu.be/bs0-G2vIWiU?si=kUUBNO-cOJ-J8Oae.
Can we conclude that it's definitely too late for TVR and that they have definitely missed an opportunity to produce something more raw before all those regulations?
Can we conclude that it's definitely too late for TVR and that they have definitely missed an opportunity to produce something more raw before all those regulations?
crosseyedlion said:
PAUL.S. said:
Who the hell sunk 19 million into that outfit, I imagine all the deposits have been repaid so it wont be potential buyers, and apart from GMH building one car for them what has their actual expenditure been? say that was a mill then where has the other 18 gone!
Surely all of the creditors for that 19 mill must be asking the same, lucky to get a penny on the pound if they call in the receivers though.
TVR as an entity was based on property owned by LE though, so for the best part of a decade TVR has probably been paying rent to another of LE's LTDs. That and 7 full time salaries. Surely all of the creditors for that 19 mill must be asking the same, lucky to get a penny on the pound if they call in the receivers though.
At a guess:
Lets say 50k per year on the offices and running costs. = 500k
7 Salaries on a conservative average of 70k for 8 years (all the positions seem to have been 'head of' or something) = 3.9mil.
Branding, web/graphic design and legal costs probably bring it up to 4.5mil ish.
Before any Gordon Murray/Prototype spend. The way they've been doing it it wouldn't be hard at all to have sunk >20mil over the last decade. All without selling any cars. Not even a continuation. They should have bought/set up a specialist from day one and started offering an official TVR workshop and sales. But apparently outsourcing every single thing is the way forward?
Honestly they've messed this up so badly something doesn't smell right.
I don't see the single one Les has, going for Mclaren F1 type money to recoup any of it
baconsarney said:
Remember Marham Alun? Was there last wednesday but not for a track day,,,,, happy memories.......
Great venue, a great day. Lots of fun sliding around on rock hard tyres!
Them were the days.
More track days should be set up for charitable purposes. I remember thinking that at the time.
I really enjoyed it being ran by the RAF boys and girls and bringing them and us public a little closer together.
What took you there this time Ric.
PAUL.S. said:
crosseyedlion said:
PAUL.S. said:
Who the hell sunk 19 million into that outfit, I imagine all the deposits have been repaid so it wont be potential buyers, and apart from GMH building one car for them what has their actual expenditure been? say that was a mill then where has the other 18 gone!
Surely all of the creditors for that 19 mill must be asking the same, lucky to get a penny on the pound if they call in the receivers though.
TVR as an entity was based on property owned by LE though, so for the best part of a decade TVR has probably been paying rent to another of LE's LTDs. That and 7 full time salaries. Surely all of the creditors for that 19 mill must be asking the same, lucky to get a penny on the pound if they call in the receivers though.
At a guess:
Lets say 50k per year on the offices and running costs. = 500k
7 Salaries on a conservative average of 70k for 8 years (all the positions seem to have been 'head of' or something) = 3.9mil.
Branding, web/graphic design and legal costs probably bring it up to 4.5mil ish.
Before any Gordon Murray/Prototype spend. The way they've been doing it it wouldn't be hard at all to have sunk >20mil over the last decade. All without selling any cars. Not even a continuation. They should have bought/set up a specialist from day one and started offering an official TVR workshop and sales. But apparently outsourcing every single thing is the way forward?
Honestly they've messed this up so badly something doesn't smell right.
I don't see the single one Les has, going for Mclaren F1 type money to recoup any of it
We live in a time when a lot of people collect £1.5m+ hypercars and many more think 900k on a terraced house in London isn't rediculous. Sinking a few million into a car company doesn't feel daft (to some)
BritishTvr450 said:
Great venue, a great day. Lots of fun sliding around on rock hard tyres!
Them were the days.
More track days should be set up for charitable purposes. I remember thinking that at the time.
I really enjoyed it being ran by the RAF boys and girls and bringing them and us public a little closer together.
What took you there this time Ric.
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