New TVR still under wraps! (Vol. 3)
Discussion
It would make an ideal car factory. The Gilbern Owners Club owns the rights and trademarks of the Gilbern name so a crowdfund should raise enough to get started. I would not advise a bond issue.
Must be struggling to get anyone interested if after all this time its now on Rightmove. The council said they had interested parties but it might yet end up being left to rot like its predecessor.
Must be struggling to get anyone interested if after all this time its now on Rightmove. The council said they had interested parties but it might yet end up being left to rot like its predecessor.
Who ever ends up in it will most certainly not be paying £63k a month! it will be the usual peppercorn rent plus loads of subsidies on top, until the hand outs run dry and they also then go bankrupt, it is the standard Welsh Assembly business model 
As highlighted on Not the Nine Oclock News way back in the late 70s and no lessons learned since then.
As highlighted on Not the Nine Oclock News way back in the late 70s and no lessons learned since then.
Penrhyn said:
They had a Turkish glass company looking to make wine glasses at the site.
But the price of utilities has rocketed, not least electric which they use loads of.
The factory is in an enterprise zone so there must be government concessions to try and attract businesses - surely? They have the wind turbine on site along with storage. The government originally said electricity would be subsidised for TVR. What politicians say and what politicians do are completely different things.But the price of utilities has rocketed, not least electric which they use loads of.
Viper201 said:
TVR issued bonds through Audacia Capital based in Dublin in the (forlorn?) hope of raising £25 million.
That was one clue that the project would never happen.
£25 million in the car manufacturing world, hardly pays for anything. Perhaps enough for the design, testing and approval of a cup holder.
Look at the English and Welsh car manufacturer, Aston Martin.
They have got through £1.8 billion in the last 7 years.
Just £25 million will get you nowhere, which is exactly where TVR is now.
Jon39 said:
Viper201 said:
TVR issued bonds through Audacia Capital based in Dublin in the (forlorn?) hope of raising £25 million.
That was one clue that the project would never happen.
£25 million in the car manufacturing world, hardly pays for anything. Perhaps enough for the design, testing and approval of a cup holder.
Look at the English and Welsh car manufacturer, Aston Martin.
They have got through £1.8 billion in the last 7 years.
Just £25 million will get you nowhere, which is exactly where TVR is now.
Jon39 said:
Viper201 said:
TVR issued bonds through Audacia Capital based in Dublin in the (forlorn?) hope of raising £25 million.
That was one clue that the project would never happen.
£25 million in the car manufacturing world, hardly pays for anything. Perhaps enough for the design, testing and approval of a cup holder.
Look at the English and Welsh car manufacturer, Aston Martin.
They have got through £1.8 billion in the last 7 years.
Just £25 million will get you nowhere, which is exactly where TVR is now.
So why did they do the bond again?
Edited by GeneralBanter on Saturday 1st March 17:51
GeneralBanter said:
Put that way it shows it’s impossible to get a car produced for £25m so it would have disappeared in overhead costs: directors remuneration, lunches, weekends in top hotels brainstorming and fine wines etc etc.
So why did they do the bond again?
So why did they do the bond again?
We will probably never know the answer.
There are also many other unanswerable questions including;
Apparently a huge sum was paid to have the prototype car designed and built by GMA.
Not unique to have the first car built by another firm (the Aston Martin V8 Concept, later to become the 2005 V8 Vantage, was built in India).
Did Mr. Edgar initially expect to have that car driven as a prototype development car for tens of thousands of miles, as is normal practice?
It hardly went anywhere.
When did Mr. Edgar realise that the amount of money needed to begin car production, could never be obtained?
Quite soon I would suggest.
Why continue the charade of repeatedly promising that production would begin?
He blamed others for the premises delay, but if really serious could have quickly obtained other suitable premises, which did not need to be as large as the dilapidated Welsh building.
Not forgetting that when TVR first tried to raise investor money they went with Pello Capital in London for 12 months long before going with the Irish connection with Audacia. They raised absolutely zero. Surely there must have been serious doubts back then?
Pello went bust in late 2022 and is now under investigation. And the racing team TVR sponsored also went bust shortly after. There's a common theme here...
Pello went bust in late 2022 and is now under investigation. And the racing team TVR sponsored also went bust shortly after. There's a common theme here...
Rose tinted glasses and a lot of media hype at the start probably fueled the mistaken belief that such a niche car could actually be profitable, clearly he had never seen the spoof advert often trotted out on PH about such endeavours.
Who in their right mind would invest in such apart from a small group of die hards. It failed before it even began, as was predicted by so many who were called out as being doom mongers at the time.
Who in their right mind would invest in such apart from a small group of die hards. It failed before it even began, as was predicted by so many who were called out as being doom mongers at the time.
PAUL.S. said:
Rose tinted glasses and a lot of media hype at the start probably fueled the mistaken belief that such a niche car could actually be profitable, clearly he had never seen the spoof advert often trotted out on PH about such endeavours.
Who in their right mind would invest in such apart from a small group of die hards. It failed before it even began, as was predicted by so many who were called out as being doom mongers at the time.
Who in their right mind would invest in such apart from a small group of die hards. It failed before it even began, as was predicted by so many who were called out as being doom mongers at the time.
Well said Paul. Exactly right.
My technique with any business investment is always to step back away from hype and those with vested interests, then think about the fundamental prospects. Not difficult.
I had to laugh when I was accused of being a doom monger on PH in 2018, at the time of the Aston Martin stock exchange flotation (IPO).
I simply pointed out that the issue price was ridiculously high, in relation to the fundamentals.
One person said that I was using a very old fashioned way of valuing a business !
You can still read those discussions.
They might have laughed at me then, but anyone who bought shares in that IPO and held long-term are certainly not laughing now.
97% of their money has gone.
In fact anyone who was holding in the past week, has lost 30% of their money.
With TVR, the Welsh government might have lost money, they have a very long record of wasting other peoples' money, but I understand that the customers who placed deposits did have their money returned, so TVR were honourable.
Edited by Jon39 on Sunday 2nd March 16:45
Returning to this thread after about 4 years, without wanting to sift through 373 pages, I'm just wondering what happened in the end? I put down a £5k deposit in 2018 but asked for it back around a year later.. are others able to get it back, assuming now the car won't be developed, especially given it's 8 years old now!
alphonso said:
Returning to this thread after about 4 years, without wanting to sift through 373 pages, I'm just wondering what happened in the end? I put down a £5k deposit in 2018 but asked for it back around a year later.. are others able to get it back, assuming now the car won't be developed, especially given it's 8 years old now!
TVR have tried pretending they’re doing stuff but realised no one believed them so they’ve given up. Anyone looked into how much Robin Wells has spent?
Is he private equity funded or just mega wealthy?
Seems to be quietly getting on with developing and producing quite a nice car without too much obvious difficulty.
Les may want to cast an eye over the Wells Motor Cars Ltd. files between rounds (of golf and drinks) at his Club.
Is he private equity funded or just mega wealthy?
Seems to be quietly getting on with developing and producing quite a nice car without too much obvious difficulty.
Les may want to cast an eye over the Wells Motor Cars Ltd. files between rounds (of golf and drinks) at his Club.
OIC said:
Anyone looked into how much Robin Wells has spent?
Is he private equity funded or just mega wealthy?
Seems to be quietly getting on with developing and producing quite a nice car without too much obvious difficulty.
Les may want to cast an eye over the Wells Motor Cars Ltd. files between rounds (of golf and drinks) at his Club.
It’s a horrid looking thing. Is he private equity funded or just mega wealthy?
Seems to be quietly getting on with developing and producing quite a nice car without too much obvious difficulty.
Les may want to cast an eye over the Wells Motor Cars Ltd. files between rounds (of golf and drinks) at his Club.
GTRene said:
Excellent and good luck to them. They just got on with it !GeneralBanter said:
Excellent and good luck to them. They just got on with it !
The difference aiming small and a non-corporate approach makes. Just pouring money onto a vehicle project makes the business case incredibly tough.
Unless you're selling for 7 figures it needs to be done on a shoestring (relatively) and low volume, or significantly more investment than TVR has had and significant volumes. In-between is absolute suicide.
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