New TVR still under wraps! (Vol. 3)
Discussion
Gazzab said:
OIC said:
Anyone looked into how much Robin Wells has spent?
Is he private equity funded or just mega wealthy?
Seems to be quietly getting on with developing and producing quite a nice car without too much obvious difficulty.
Les may want to cast an eye over the Wells Motor Cars Ltd. files between rounds (of golf and drinks) at his Club.
It’s a horrid looking thing. Is he private equity funded or just mega wealthy?
Seems to be quietly getting on with developing and producing quite a nice car without too much obvious difficulty.
Les may want to cast an eye over the Wells Motor Cars Ltd. files between rounds (of golf and drinks) at his Club.
crosseyedlion said:
The difference aiming small and a non-corporate approach makes.
Just pouring money onto a vehicle project makes the business case incredibly tough.
Unless you're selling for 7 figures it needs to be done on a shoestring (relatively) and low volume, or significantly more investment than TVR has had and significant volumes. In-between is absolute suicide.
I don't think they really aiming to sell cars outside the UK. The cost of complying with various legislations is huge especially compared to what appears to be required of low volume local manufacturers.Just pouring money onto a vehicle project makes the business case incredibly tough.
Unless you're selling for 7 figures it needs to be done on a shoestring (relatively) and low volume, or significantly more investment than TVR has had and significant volumes. In-between is absolute suicide.
Zeb74 said:
crosseyedlion said:
The difference aiming small and a non-corporate approach makes.
Just pouring money onto a vehicle project makes the business case incredibly tough.
Unless you're selling for 7 figures it needs to be done on a shoestring (relatively) and low volume, or significantly more investment than TVR has had and significant volumes. In-between is absolute suicide.
I don't think they really aiming to sell cars outside the UK. The cost of complying with various legislations is huge especially compared to what appears to be required of low volume local manufacturers.Just pouring money onto a vehicle project makes the business case incredibly tough.
Unless you're selling for 7 figures it needs to be done on a shoestring (relatively) and low volume, or significantly more investment than TVR has had and significant volumes. In-between is absolute suicide.
The EU does have low volume exemption/derogations for low volumes, so they can sell there. And plenty of foreign markets on an individual basis.
None of this has changed since Les & Co took the reigns. Which is what makes it frustrating to me.
Wells isn't really comparable with TVR, at least post 1990s. It's comparable to Ginetta pre LNT. It even looks like an old Ginetta. It's in the realms of kit-car, built for you. You can see all the parts from other manufacturers parts bins in the interior and it looks kit-car inside.
There is no power steering, not even any servo for the brakes, let alone ABS, and you can forget about airbags etc. I don't think it will have have passed any crash test etc. They are being built under the basic IVA scheme.
You might say that is all fine, but the price tag is £65K. That's basically a nearly new 2.0 Lotus Emira with less than 500 miles on the clock, and you can collect the Emira today, whereas another thread on here suggests that Wells haven't delivered a customer car yet, even though Autocar tested one in 2021.
You can a not yet 3 years old Cayman 4.0 GTS with less than 6,000 on the clock for the same money, and I think that you will sell that more easily and lose less on it than you would with a Wells.
Have a look at the company's accounts too. The only director gives his address as the UAE and the liabilities exceed the assets by quite a margin. How many cars will be built before it folds?
There is no power steering, not even any servo for the brakes, let alone ABS, and you can forget about airbags etc. I don't think it will have have passed any crash test etc. They are being built under the basic IVA scheme.
You might say that is all fine, but the price tag is £65K. That's basically a nearly new 2.0 Lotus Emira with less than 500 miles on the clock, and you can collect the Emira today, whereas another thread on here suggests that Wells haven't delivered a customer car yet, even though Autocar tested one in 2021.
You can a not yet 3 years old Cayman 4.0 GTS with less than 6,000 on the clock for the same money, and I think that you will sell that more easily and lose less on it than you would with a Wells.
Have a look at the company's accounts too. The only director gives his address as the UAE and the liabilities exceed the assets by quite a margin. How many cars will be built before it folds?
Freshly announced new EV car manufacturer with two planned models (speedster and roadster).
www.longbowmotors.com
They want to bring 2x 150 cars into the market in 2026.
Let's wait and see...
www.longbowmotors.com
They want to bring 2x 150 cars into the market in 2026.
Let's wait and see...
Antoinne said:
You can a not yet 3 years old Cayman 4.0 GTS with less than 6,000 on the clock for the same money, and I think that you will sell that more easily and lose less on it than you would with a Wells.
For sure, and I could also have bought a Boxster instead of my Chimaera for the same price. But I could also have bought a Toyota Corolla, much more practical, much more reliable and comfortable.Honestly, for the same price, because I'm a bit masochist I guess, I would sign for a Wells instead of the Porsche. In fact, I think I like to suffer, on the 5 cars I own, 4 of them are English and I live in France
.Why do both the Wells and Longbow websites only quote ESTIMATED top speed and 0-60 time? Either they haven't made one yet, or they don't dare drive it to its max. Both would make me very suspicious. Especially when you read the Longbow small print down at the asterisk :
"*The performance and efficiency figures quoted are derived from simulated and real-world test results, are provided for comparability purposes only and might not reflect the actual driving experience. "
Elsewhere, Longbow say : "1 of only 150 Limited Editions: Arriving 2026". Hmm - where have we heard that before?
And as well as being ugly, for £84,995 they don't even give you a windscreen. "BUILT LIKE THEY USED TO BE"? Err ... not.
"*The performance and efficiency figures quoted are derived from simulated and real-world test results, are provided for comparability purposes only and might not reflect the actual driving experience. "
Elsewhere, Longbow say : "1 of only 150 Limited Editions: Arriving 2026". Hmm - where have we heard that before?
And as well as being ugly, for £84,995 they don't even give you a windscreen. "BUILT LIKE THEY USED TO BE"? Err ... not.
frontfloater said:
Why do both the Wells and Longbow websites only quote ESTIMATED top speed and 0-60 time? Either they haven't made one yet, or they don't dare drive it to its max. Both would make me very suspicious. Especially when you read the Longbow small print down at the asterisk :
"*The performance and efficiency figures quoted are derived from simulated and real-world test results, are provided for comparability purposes only and might not reflect the actual driving experience. "
Elsewhere, Longbow say : "1 of only 150 Limited Editions: Arriving 2026". Hmm - where have we heard that before?
And as well as being ugly, for £84,995 they don't even give you a windscreen. "BUILT LIKE THEY USED TO BE"? Err ... not.
Because they are absolutely not about the numbers. Rolls never used to quote bhp outputs. iirc Gordon Murray didn't quote the figures for the T.50 for a long time"*The performance and efficiency figures quoted are derived from simulated and real-world test results, are provided for comparability purposes only and might not reflect the actual driving experience. "
Elsewhere, Longbow say : "1 of only 150 Limited Editions: Arriving 2026". Hmm - where have we heard that before?
And as well as being ugly, for £84,995 they don't even give you a windscreen. "BUILT LIKE THEY USED TO BE"? Err ... not.
Like the Wells mentioned above, the 2 directors of Longbow, Davey and Tapscott, are UAE based and call themselves 'entrepreneurs'. Previously called Aetha Motors. Company was formed in August 2023 so if they are producing cars next year that would be a very fast start up.
The 3rd person is Jenny Keisu who is CEO of X Shore, a Swedish electric boating company.
The 3rd person is Jenny Keisu who is CEO of X Shore, a Swedish electric boating company.
The Three D Mucketeer said:
crosseyedlion said:
Because they are absolutely not about the numbers. Rolls never used to quote bhp outputs. iirc Gordon Murray didn't quote the figures for the T.50 for a long time
What about my brothers 1926 Rolls 20 ? Straight Six 20 Horse Power , successor to the Rolls 10 
,tvrolet said:
The Three D Mucketeer said:
crosseyedlion said:
Because they are absolutely not about the numbers. Rolls never used to quote bhp outputs. iirc Gordon Murray didn't quote the figures for the T.50 for a long time
What about my brothers 1926 Rolls 20 ? Straight Six 20 Horse Power , successor to the Rolls 10 , ..... I know nothing , but I know people who do Although thinking about it my Rotavator 5.5 bhp and I can't image 4 of them getting his heavy Rolls up a hill
My mistake , confirmed by my Brother, you're perfectly correct. He says it was after WW2 that ratings changed .
Edited by The Three D Mucketeer on Saturday 15th March 13:07
tvrolet said:
O/T but wouldn’t that be the taxation horsepower class? In the early days the rated horsepower of a car or motorcycle was calculated on the formula bore (in inches) squared X number of cylinders / 2.5. So no mention of stroke, valves, revs or anything else that would affect power. So most of the early cars/bikes with a horsepower rating in their name were based on this formula and nothing to do with what the motor actually made.
Fascinating works well for the Austin 7 and 10. Gotta dash to tinker with the Ford Mexico 16hp lump.
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