Alloy wheel spacers safe on steel wheels?

Alloy wheel spacers safe on steel wheels?

Author
Discussion

u33db

Original Poster:

122 posts

23 months

Wednesday 9th June
quotequote all
Hi there,

I want to fit some wheel spacers with some steel wheels have have read elsewhere - i beleive H&R state this - that it is not recommended to do so.

Does anyone know why?




Tony1963

3,109 posts

129 months

Wednesday 9th June
quotequote all
One reason would be the likelihood of corrosion.

u33db

Original Poster:

122 posts

23 months

Wednesday 9th June
quotequote all
Not sure.

I did wonder if it was due the steel wheel potentially digging into the alloy...as you know the rear of steel wheels aren't flat.

Interestingly i can't find any warnings on the Eibach site so maybe not a big issue

DaveyBoyWonder

1,250 posts

141 months

Wednesday 9th June
quotequote all
I wouldn't have thought it would be a problem. Can't be corrosion otherwise alloys and steel hubs wouldn't ever work.

tapkaJohnD

1,610 posts

171 months

Wednesday 9th June
quotequote all
Copperease grease to try and isolate the two metals? Might help prevent corrosion.

E-bmw

6,199 posts

119 months

Wednesday 9th June
quotequote all
Not a problem, you get alloy wheels on steel hubs the world over, just the same.

Tony1963

3,109 posts

129 months

Wednesday 9th June
quotequote all
E-bmw said:
Not a problem, you get alloy wheels on steel hubs the world over, just the same.
And some of them do corrode and stick to each other, quite badly.

stevieturbo

15,488 posts

214 months

Wednesday 9th June
quotequote all
Depends on the spacer, some are thing wobbly bits of st.

If it's a full face flat surface...can't see a problem

E-bmw

6,199 posts

119 months

Thursday 10th June
quotequote all
Tony1963 said:
E-bmw said:
Not a problem, you get alloy wheels on steel hubs the world over, just the same.
And some of them do corrode and stick to each other, quite badly.
As do steel wheels on steel hubs, a bit of copper grease sorts it out. wink

aka_kerrly

11,925 posts

177 months

Thursday 10th June
quotequote all
stevieturbo said:
Depends on the spacer, some are thing wobbly bits of st.

If it's a full face flat surface...can't see a problem
Halfway right, It DOES depend on the spacer but the preferred choice of spacer is a hub centric one which has a mounting lip for the wheel to sit on rather than the cheaper/crapper flat faced spacers.


Chris32345

1,582 posts

29 months

Thursday 10th June
quotequote all
DaveyBoyWonder said:
I wouldn't have thought it would be a problem. Can't be corrosion otherwise alloys and steel hubs wouldn't ever work.
Alloys are rarely raw alloy metal
Plus they arnt aluminium as per there name the are alloys of metals so can't compare to solid ammonium spacers

stevieturbo

15,488 posts

214 months

Thursday 10th June
quotequote all
aka_kerrly said:
Halfway right, It DOES depend on the spacer but the preferred choice of spacer is a hub centric one which has a mounting lip for the wheel to sit on rather than the cheaper/crapper flat faced spacers.
Only huge spacers have that option...and I would never use huge spacers. It's all wrong

Mave

6,924 posts

182 months

Thursday 10th June
quotequote all
E-bmw said:
As do steel wheels on steel hubs, a bit of copper grease sorts it out. wink
At the risk of opening up the old chestnut - don't put copper grease on the mating surfaces. If you absolutely must then just a little bit around the edges to stop the moisture getting in - but those surfaces are transferring the torque from the wheel to the hub / spacer.

aka_kerrly

11,925 posts

177 months

Friday 11th June
quotequote all
stevieturbo said:
Only huge spacers have that option...and I would never use huge spacers. It's all wrong
Do you consider 5mm huge????

Plenty of 5/10/15/20/25mm spacers with hub centric fitment

E-bmw

6,199 posts

119 months

Friday 11th June
quotequote all
Mave said:
E-bmw said:
As do steel wheels on steel hubs, a bit of copper grease sorts it out. wink
At the risk of opening up the old chestnut - don't put copper grease on the mating surfaces. If you absolutely must then just a little bit around the edges to stop the moisture getting in - but those surfaces are transferring the torque from the wheel to the hub / spacer.
It is the clamping force from the bolts/studs & nuts that keeps everything in place & allows the transfer of the torque, a sliver of copper grease on the mating surface will do nothing negative.

Mave

6,924 posts

182 months

Friday 11th June
quotequote all
E-bmw said:
Mave said:
E-bmw said:
As do steel wheels on steel hubs, a bit of copper grease sorts it out. wink
At the risk of opening up the old chestnut - don't put copper grease on the mating surfaces. If you absolutely must then just a little bit around the edges to stop the moisture getting in - but those surfaces are transferring the torque from the wheel to the hub / spacer.
It is the clamping force from the bolts/studs & nuts that keeps everything in place & allows the transfer of the torque, a sliver of copper grease on the mating surface will do nothing negative.
Surely a sliver of copper grease on the mating surfaces will reduce the coefficient of friction between those surfaces, and therefor reduce the amount of force that those surfaces can transmit for a given clamp load?

E-bmw

6,199 posts

119 months

Friday 11th June
quotequote all
Mave said:
E-bmw said:
Mave said:
E-bmw said:
As do steel wheels on steel hubs, a bit of copper grease sorts it out. wink
At the risk of opening up the old chestnut - don't put copper grease on the mating surfaces. If you absolutely must then just a little bit around the edges to stop the moisture getting in - but those surfaces are transferring the torque from the wheel to the hub / spacer.
It is the clamping force from the bolts/studs & nuts that keeps everything in place & allows the transfer of the torque, a sliver of copper grease on the mating surface will do nothing negative.
Surely a sliver of copper grease on the mating surfaces will reduce the coefficient of friction between those surfaces, and therefor reduce the amount of force that those surfaces can transmit for a given clamp load?
No, it is vastly overcome by the clamping force of the nut & stud/bolt tension & the positive location afforded by the bolt/nut cones & the wheel spigot.

Mave

6,924 posts

182 months

Friday 11th June
quotequote all
E-bmw said:
No, it is vastly overcome by the clamping force of the nut & stud/bolt tension & the positive location afforded by the bolt/nut cones & the wheel spigot.
The bolt /nut cones shouldn't be transmitting any torque because that would load them in shear, the spigot can't transmit torque, and the clamping force of the nut / bolt can't transmit torque because it's in the wrong direction.

The only thing which transmits torque is the friction across the mating surfaces resulting from the combination of bolt tension and friction. There may be enough margin in the joint to allow some copper grease, just like there may be enough margin to get away with all sorts of wheel spacer arrangements, but that doesn't mean it's the right thing to do, which was the essence of the OPs question.

E-bmw

6,199 posts

119 months

Friday 11th June
quotequote all
Mave said:
E-bmw said:
No, it is vastly overcome by the clamping force of the nut & stud/bolt tension & the positive location afforded by the bolt/nut cones & the wheel spigot.
The bolt /nut cones shouldn't be transmitting any torque because that would load them in shear, the spigot can't transmit torque, and the clamping force of the nut / bolt can't transmit torque because it's in the wrong direction.

The only thing which transmits torque is the friction across the mating surfaces resulting from the combination of bolt tension and friction. There may be enough margin in the joint to allow some copper grease, just like there may be enough margin to get away with all sorts of wheel spacer arrangements, but that doesn't mean it's the right thing to do, which was the essence of the OPs question.
You have misunderstood what I said.

The cone on the nut/bolt & the spigot ring locate the wheel.

The clamping force comes from the torque on the nut/bolt.

If what you say in the final paragraph were true then a wheel on a hub without grease would not be able to be turned by hand before the wheel were fitted.

The torque is 100% transmitted to the wheel via the bolt/stud, just try transmitting torque without them.

Mave

6,924 posts

182 months

Friday 11th June
quotequote all
E-bmw said:
You have misunderstood what I said.

The cone on the nut/bolt & the spigot ring locate the wheel.

The clamping force comes from the torque on the nut/bolt.

If what you say in the final paragraph were true then a wheel on a hub without grease would not be able to be turned by hand before the wheel were fitted.

I don't understand what you are trying to say here. How do you have a wheel on a hub before the wheel is fitted?

E-bmw said:

The torque is 100% transmitted to the wheel via the bolt/stud, just try transmitting torque without them.
No, it 100% isn't. To transmit torque the bolt / stud would need to be in shear, which they aren't (or shouldn't be!), they are only in tension.

You need the bolt / stud fitted to be able to transmit torque because they are part of the joint, but they are not the part of the joint which transmits torque.

If the torque was taken by the bolts / studs, they would fatigue in no time (and you'd never get wheels stuck to hubs because they'd constantly be fretting!). It would also raise the question of why you actually need to torque up the nuts / bolts in the first place - you could just put a bit of threadlock on them, and nip them up by hand....

Edited by Mave on Friday 11th June 19:34