New Toyo Proxes on rear has ruined handling

New Toyo Proxes on rear has ruined handling

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Discussion

Else

Original Poster:

794 posts

208 months

Thursday 5th August
quotequote all
Hello all.

I'm looking for advice after fitting a pair of new Toyo Proxes sport tyres to the rear of my TVR Chimaera. It has ruined the handling, feeling as though it is steering from the rear, very unstable in corners and difficult to keep it in a straight line without constant correction. I have no confidence driving it quickly.
It had Toyo Proxes T1R on previously and was fine so I have just fitted a second set or rear wheels with worn Bridgestones on and it is perfect. Very stable and planted and tracks perfectly in a straight-line.

At the time I couldn't get any Proxes T1Rs, I think they have been discontinued so I went for Proxes Sport thinking they are an equivalent but I'm guessing I have made a mistake.

Can any tyre experts help me locate the best equivalent to the original T1Rs

Thanks in advance

Andy

stevieturbo

15,677 posts

217 months

Thursday 5th August
quotequote all
Buy some proper tyres like Michelin PS4's or something

Else

Original Poster:

794 posts

208 months

Thursday 5th August
quotequote all
So Toyos aren’t proper tyres then?

Darkslider

2,938 posts

159 months

Thursday 5th August
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I think the Toyo Sport you might have purchased is just an ordinary economy tyre. The T1R's replacement is the TR1, and now has a more Rainsport esque pattern as opposed to the old directional tread. I've put a pair on the front of our 250bhp Leon FR and haven't got any complaints, expecting them to be like the old ones in that they offer mid to premium grip levels for not much more than a budget tyre price at the expense of longevity; the previous T1Rs only lasted 17k on the front before needing replacing.

stevieturbo

15,677 posts

217 months

Thursday 5th August
quotequote all
Else said:
So Toyos aren’t proper tyres then?
They're popular, they're decent....but in many respects over rated. And that includes the 888 etc

I've tried a lot of tyres over the years, and thought many have been very good including 888's. But I've mostly always tried cheaper tyres than the big brand names, as I thought they were too expensive, and nothing that good to justify it.
However, after watching dozens of the tests on this channel...I decided to give some Michelins a try. In reality they weren't hugely expensive.

Now so far it is only a few blasts in the dry on a good sunny day, but anything I've tried before would easily be lighting up the tyres in 3rd gear even with lowish boost. So far the PS4's have gripped very well. I will try and make excuses that weather was great, road warm, good surface etc etc....but in reality, these have gripped when most other tyres I've tried have not. And I honestly never though it would happen with what is just a normal high performance road tyre.

But it's their wet performance in the video that impressed me more. I don't often drive this car in the wet....but I know all the tyres I've had before in the wet have been crap, especially braking and braking feel.
I haven't used the PS4's in the wet yet, but at least I know they will be among the top performers when I do.

Plus according to those videos, tyres like this wear well as well. Time will tell on that one. But any of the sporty soft track type tyres I've used, often barely last me 2000 miles of mostly road use. The last R888R's didn't even last me 1500 miles on the rear which is terrible.


https://www.youtube.com/c/tyrereviews/videos


Else

Original Poster:

794 posts

208 months

Thursday 5th August
quotequote all
Wow, thanks mate, very informative. I noticed there are several PS4 versions, will have to make sure I understand the differences. I have around 400bhp rear wheel drive and weighs about 1100kg so want to make sure I choose the right tyre this time.

Thanks again

Andy

ian332isport

105 posts

201 months

Thursday 5th August
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I had a very similar problem on my e30 BMW. Fitted a new pair of Bridgestone RE050 tyres on the back, and it was just as you described. Felt like it was steering from the rear and gave no confidence that you’d make it round the next corner. These were like for like replacements too, not even a different brand. Only obvious difference is the originals were made in Japan, and the replacements were from somewhere in Europe.

I chucked a different pair of wheels on the back that have Toyo tyres fitted, and all back to normal.

aka_kerrly

12,033 posts

180 months

Friday 6th August
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"Toyo Proxes Sport test and review of the summer tire | AllTyreTests.com" https://alltyretests.com/toyo-proxes-sport/


Short answer is NO the Toyo is not much of a performance tyre. The T1r was good in the year 2000 for £30 a corner but like a lot of things the T1r quickly became outclassed by better competition even from budget tyres.


Try Camskill for good prices on Yokohama, Pirelli, Michelin etc. For not a lot of money I've been somewhat surprised by the Vredestein Ultrac Vorti and the standard go to mid budget is the Uniroyal Rainsport 5 , although I think a Eagle F1 v5 assymetric is barely a tenner a corner more and these make excellent all rounders.


E-bmw

6,401 posts

122 months

Friday 6th August
quotequote all
Tyres are the only thing keeping the car out of the ditch and unfortunately there is no substitute for good rubber.

tyrereviews.com has a bewildering array of information available but key (IMHO) is the "all tests" tab when you get into a specific tyre, if they have been tested professionally.

MB140

3,042 posts

73 months

Friday 6th August
quotequote all
How long did you have them on for. Could this just be a case of scrubbing off the oils that sit in the surface when they come out the mould. I’d give them 50-100 miles to see if they get better.

Arnold Cunningham

1,607 posts

223 months

Friday 6th August
quotequote all
My MG is fairly particular about tyres, especially the rears. Toyo T1R were one of the good options until they moved factories from Japan to Malaysia. Latterly everyone reports they are not as stiff and make the rear feel unstable much like the OP reports on their car.

JimSuperSix

4,095 posts

213 months

Friday 6th August
quotequote all
I had a pair of Toyo Proxes on my old mx5 (briefly) - they were frankly utter garbage - so soft the entire rear end felt like it was on a rubber band. almost flipped the car on a roundabout when a sidewall folded. Tried them on the front and almost st my pants at the first corner as it took what felt like an age for the car to change direction after turning the steering wheel - honestly thought I was going to end up in the hedge.

Replaced with not that much mileage on them with Kumho Ecstas IIRC which were terrific, even on a track.

stevieturbo

15,677 posts

217 months

Friday 6th August
quotequote all
Else said:
Wow, thanks mate, very informative. I noticed there are several PS4 versions, will have to make sure I understand the differences. I have around 400bhp rear wheel drive and weighs about 1100kg so want to make sure I choose the right tyre this time.

Thanks again

Andy
A lot will come down to use, roads, and weather.

I just opted for the plain PS4...as my main use here is road, or maybe some short hillclimbs. But as weather here is also cooler, and often wet or damp...it seems pointless aiming for a tyre than needs heat in it to work like say a PS4S which are more aimed at track use where you're doing more than one lap.
And the same would apply to most of the high and UHP track type tyres.

If I'm ever on a track, I'd only ever be doing a single lap....so a tyre that takes say 2-3 laps or more to get up to temperature is pointless no matter how good it may be under those conditions....if you're never on a track under those conditions.

But watch a lot of his videos, they are excellent, and lots to learn.

One of the most impressive was the difference between say the BMW OEM M3 tyre ( or something like that fitment ) and the same type universal equivalent, and the differences in construction, design etc etc.
Two similar tyres, but totally different. But again even there, the OEM tyre was more focused on dry weather performance, and the wet weather performance did suffer a little.



Tyre Tread

9,711 posts

186 months

Friday 6th August
quotequote all
May be an obvious suggestion but have you checked the pressures. Most tyre bays will put circa 30PSI in them and you want about 24 in the rears of a Chim.

It makes a hell of a difference

GreenV8S

29,026 posts

254 months

Friday 6th August
quotequote all
Tyre Tread said:
It makes a hell of a difference
Especially so while the tyres are still green. I remember getting a new set of Bridgetone some-or-other and driving a couple of hundred miles to an event, then finding the thing just wouldn't grip. It was a warm day so I put the pressures up to see if that would help, and I could barely keep it in a straight line. New tread blocks are very flexible before they've been through a few heat cycles and higher tyre pressure concentrates the forces into a smaller contact patch. After that I learned to run new tyres a couple PSI softer.

Else

Original Poster:

794 posts

208 months

Saturday 7th August
quotequote all
MB140 said:
How long did you have them on for. Could this just be a case of scrubbing off the oils that sit in the surface when they come out the mould. I’d give them 50-100 miles to see if they get better.
Yeah, i thought that too but no improvement even after 200 scary miles laugh

Else

Original Poster:

794 posts

208 months

Saturday 7th August
quotequote all
Tyre Tread said:
May be an obvious suggestion but have you checked the pressures. Most tyre bays will put circa 30PSI in them and you want about 24 in the rears of a Chim.

It makes a hell of a difference
I ran the same 24 all round with the original TR1s which were great but tried these tyres higher and lower, no improvement. I can only assume the sidewall is much softer allowing the tyre to squirm around.

Else

Original Poster:

794 posts

208 months

Saturday 7th August
quotequote all
GreenV8S said:
Especially so while the tyres are still green. I remember getting a new set of Bridgetone some-or-other and driving a couple of hundred miles to an event, then finding the thing just wouldn't grip. It was a warm day so I put the pressures up to see if that would help, and I could barely keep it in a straight line. New tread blocks are very flexible before they've been through a few heat cycles and higher tyre pressure concentrates the forces into a smaller contact patch. After that I learned to run new tyres a couple PSI softer.
Hello Peter. Good point about new tread blocks. I think i'll give them another try at a lower pressure to get some heat in them for a few cycles, maybe that will help. Otherwise they're coming off.

Smint

257 posts

5 months

Saturday 7th August
quotequote all
Else said:
Yeah, i thought that too but no improvement even after 200 scary miles laugh
That might not be enough, i've had tyres take around 1000 miles to start giving their best, bigger the tyre the longer they takle to bed in (Can be up to 5000 on lorry tyres), only tyres that have ever been perfect from fitted were Vredestein Wintracs.
Also, have you tried altering the pressures and see how things pan out, maybe going down a couple of psi at a time.
edit, doh, already suggested lowering pressures.

Edited by Smint on Saturday 7th August 21:25