How many miles from Michelin CrossClimates (& other tyres)?
Discussion
Hi all
I had some Cross Climates fitted to the front of my Fabia a couple of years ago, which now need replacing. They've done around 17,000 miles...
I've been trying to find out whether that's good or not. Some of what I've read would suggest it is low. But then I found an article from a Welsh taxi driver (I'm in Wales too), and I also spoke to a local mechanic. Both said that 17,000 miles is in fact pretty good, and that with a more basic cheaper tyre I'd be looking at getting more like 11,000 miles.
So I wondered what folk 'round here think to all that?
In terms of driving... We're right in the sticks, so a lot of dodgy back roads, but we also have family in Norfolk and so go back a few times a year so a reasonable amount of motorway driving too.
Cheers
I had some Cross Climates fitted to the front of my Fabia a couple of years ago, which now need replacing. They've done around 17,000 miles...
I've been trying to find out whether that's good or not. Some of what I've read would suggest it is low. But then I found an article from a Welsh taxi driver (I'm in Wales too), and I also spoke to a local mechanic. Both said that 17,000 miles is in fact pretty good, and that with a more basic cheaper tyre I'd be looking at getting more like 11,000 miles.
So I wondered what folk 'round here think to all that?
In terms of driving... We're right in the sticks, so a lot of dodgy back roads, but we also have family in Norfolk and so go back a few times a year so a reasonable amount of motorway driving too.
Cheers
my first gen last 12k.
You seem to be mixing things, CC are all season tyres so cheap all season tyres will wear quicker, but normal cheap tyres are usually harder tyres so will wear longer but obviously come with downsides, poor rain weather etc.
I guess you bought CC for winter performance so 17k seems about right.
You seem to be mixing things, CC are all season tyres so cheap all season tyres will wear quicker, but normal cheap tyres are usually harder tyres so will wear longer but obviously come with downsides, poor rain weather etc.
I guess you bought CC for winter performance so 17k seems about right.
Op, do you usually fit your new tyres to the back of your car first? If not, try doing it, then when the front tyres need replacing, move the rears to the front, new tyres onto the rear. I reckon you’ll get 25k miles without trying too hard. The rears will probably still have 5mm tread left when you move them forwards.
And yes, as above, probably best to not mix CC with summers.
And yes, as above, probably best to not mix CC with summers.
Tony1963 said:
Op, do you usually fit your new tyres to the back of your car first?
Completely disagree.New on the front every time.
Only compromise is that you need to use with care for the first few days/100 miles.
More tread depth = more resistance to aquaplaning, also more effective especially in CC/winter tyres as they should be changed by 4mm anyway as they become worse than summers in the winter at 4mm, ask ze Germans.
E-bmw said:
Tony1963 said:
Op, do you usually fit your new tyres to the back of your car first?
Completely disagree.New on the front every time.
Only compromise is that you need to use with care for the first few days/100 miles.
More tread depth = more resistance to aquaplaning, also more effective especially in CC/winter tyres as they should be changed by 4mm anyway as they become worse than summers in the winter at 4mm, ask ze Germans.
New tyres, for a 'normal' FWD vehicle, should always go on the back.
Far less likely to result in an uncontrollable spin.
Don't take my word for it - just google "new tyres on front or back" and see how many people agree with me....examples:
- https://kumhotyre.co.uk/kumho-news/should-you-fit-...
- https://www.uniroyal-tyres.com/car/tyre-guide/tyre...
- https://www.edentyres.com/should-i-fit-new-tyres-t...
- https://www.etyres.co.uk/blog/should-i-fit-new-tyr...
On the back is the right way to do it. If there’s all seasons on one axle and summers on the other, in icy/snowy weather the car will be very dangerous to drive given the traction difference in all aspects, particularly braking.
17k is decent mileage on the front of a FWD car. If it’s a diesel, then that’s even better.
17k is decent mileage on the front of a FWD car. If it’s a diesel, then that’s even better.
mikeiow said:
E-bmw said:
Tony1963 said:
Op, do you usually fit your new tyres to the back of your car first?
Completely disagree.New on the front every time.
Only compromise is that you need to use with care for the first few days/100 miles.
More tread depth = more resistance to aquaplaning, also more effective especially in CC/winter tyres as they should be changed by 4mm anyway as they become worse than summers in the winter at 4mm, ask ze Germans.
New tyres, for a 'normal' FWD vehicle, should always go on the back.
Far less likely to result in an uncontrollable spin.
Don't take my word for it - just google "new tyres on front or back" and see how many people agree with me....examples:
I could go on.....
Joking aside the theory of new on the rear is based on the theory that understeer is a "safer" handling trait than oversteer, and while this is generally true I would rather have oversteer than understeer (per se).
Having said that, the only times I have ever had oversteer in a FWD car have been once due to stupidity & it wasn't an issue to regain control & a few times when on track in my car that is set up exactly that way to allow extra rotation when required.
At least with the front having the best grip steering & braking (with ABS) are mostly unaffected allowing control to be regained considerably easier.
Aquaplaning is the single most frightening & uncontrollable event in a car when driving at speed so resistance to aquaplaning is good, and better with new on the front, which is mentioned in most of those links.
So I will stick with new on the front, each to their own.
E-bmw said:
Aquaplaning is the single most frightening & uncontrollable event in a car when driving at speed so resistance to aquaplaning is good, and better with new on the front, which is mentioned in most of those links.
So I will stick with new on the front, each to their own.
So you replace your front tyres every time there’s rain forecast, just so you can guarantee the maximum resistance to aquaplaning at all times? No, of course you don’t. You leave them on there until you decide they need replacing. So I will stick with new on the front, each to their own.
I can’t remember the last time I had aquaplaning for more than a fraction of a second. Why? Because I slow down and take care.
I’ve no idea what the tread depth is on new CC tyres, but new tyres on the rear will still work best. Who wants ancient tyres on the rear???
Edited by Tony1963 on Sunday 15th August 08:16
Tony1963 said:
E-bmw said:
Aquaplaning is the single most frightening & uncontrollable event in a car when driving at speed so resistance to aquaplaning is good, and better with new on the front, which is mentioned in most of those links.
So I will stick with new on the front, each to their own.
So you replace your front tyres every time there’s rain forecast, just so you can guarantee the maximum resistance to aquaplaning at all times? No, of course you don’t. You leave them on there until you decide they need replacing. So I will stick with new on the front, each to their own.
I can’t remember the last time I had aquaplaning for more than a fraction of a second. Why? Because I slow down and take care.
I’ve no idea what the tread depth is on new CC tyres, but new tyres on the rear will still work best. Who wants ancient tyres on the rear???
There is always someone who is a driving god, eh: this is PH, after all
Aquaplaning? More common an issue than perhaps taking a corner too fast? Mmmmm
Presumably E-bmw eschews ABS in favour of manually controlling those brakes too
Pffft, he could be right: what do all those tyre manufacturers, AA/RAC know, anyway
E-bmw said:
At least with the front having the best grip steering & braking (with ABS) are mostly unaffected allowing control to be regained considerably easier.
Aquaplaning is the single most frightening & uncontrollable event in a car when driving at speed so resistance to aquaplaning is good, and better with new on the front, which is mentioned in most of those links.
So I will stick with new on the front, each to their own.
With winter’s on the front and summer’s on the back the risk is that in slippy weather the back of the car will overtake the front under braking.Aquaplaning is the single most frightening & uncontrollable event in a car when driving at speed so resistance to aquaplaning is good, and better with new on the front, which is mentioned in most of those links.
So I will stick with new on the front, each to their own.
Year round, the biggest risk is the back end just letting go on bends on fast wet roads - common on rural A rads and amazing how often these vehicles find a tree. The bigger the difference in the tyres the lower speed it happens at - new tyres on the front and half-worn on the back is worse than four half-worn tyres.
On relatively recent cars, ESP mitigates against this to some degree although there are limits to what it can do - my 2005 Merc handbook says put new tyres on the front for better steering as Merc ESP is so good, but MB dropped that advice from later models.
Obviously you can do whatever you think best but worth being cautious if other people drive the car.
Let’s get this straight: nobody is recommending moving worn out tyres from the rear to the front. That would be silly. On a typical shopping car, by the time the front tyres are too worn, the rears will still have only used about 2mm, so more than good enough for the front.
Putting new, deep treaded tyres on the front causes premature wear. Those tall tread blocks are moving all over the place every time they’re asked to brake, steer and accelerate.
Putting new, deep treaded tyres on the front causes premature wear. Those tall tread blocks are moving all over the place every time they’re asked to brake, steer and accelerate.
Tony1963 said:
E-bmw said:
Aquaplaning is the single most frightening & uncontrollable event in a car when driving at speed so resistance to aquaplaning is good, and better with new on the front, which is mentioned in most of those links.
So I will stick with new on the front, each to their own.
So you replace your front tyres every time there’s rain forecast, [ I said I have the newer/better treaded tyres on the front, where on earth do you get that from?] just so you can guarantee the maximum resistance to aquaplaning at all times? No, of course you don’t. You leave them on there until you decide they need replacing. [Correct] So I will stick with new on the front, each to their own.
I can’t remember the last time I had aquaplaning for more than a fraction of a second. Why? Because I slow down and take care.
I’ve no idea what the tread depth is on new CC tyres, but new tyres on the rear will still work best. Who wants ancient tyres on the rear???
Edited by Tony1963 on Sunday 15th August 08:16
mikeiow said:
Tony1963 said:
E-bmw said:
Aquaplaning is the single most frightening & uncontrollable event in a car when driving at speed so resistance to aquaplaning is good, and better with new on the front, which is mentioned in most of those links.
So I will stick with new on the front, each to their own.
So you replace your front tyres every time there’s rain forecast, just so you can guarantee the maximum resistance to aquaplaning at all times? No, of course you don’t. You leave them on there until you decide they need replacing. So I will stick with new on the front, each to their own.
I can’t remember the last time I had aquaplaning for more than a fraction of a second. Why? Because I slow down and take care.
I’ve no idea what the tread depth is on new CC tyres, but new tyres on the rear will still work best. Who wants ancient tyres on the rear???
There is always someone who is a driving god, eh: this is PH, after all
Aquaplaning? More common an issue than perhaps taking a corner too fast? Mmmmm No, but corner speed is easier to control that aquaplaning because of insufficient tread depth
Presumably E-bmw eschews ABS in favour of manually controlling those brakes too
No, just saying with ABS you can still brake with no traction on the rearPffft, he could be right: what do all those tyre manufacturers, AA/RAC know, anyway
I think you will find I never said I am right & they are wrong, just gave my reasons/logic, what anyone else does is down to their risk analysis based on their own vehicle & abilitiesSheepshanks said:
E-bmw said:
At least with the front having the best grip steering & braking (with ABS) are mostly unaffected allowing control to be regained considerably easier.
Aquaplaning is the single most frightening & uncontrollable event in a car when driving at speed so resistance to aquaplaning is good, and better with new on the front, which is mentioned in most of those links.
So I will stick with new on the front, each to their own.
With winter’s on the front and summer’s on the back the risk is that in slippy weather the back of the car will overtake the front under braking.I personally wouldn't do that under any circumstances, all the same front & rear alwaysAquaplaning is the single most frightening & uncontrollable event in a car when driving at speed so resistance to aquaplaning is good, and better with new on the front, which is mentioned in most of those links.
So I will stick with new on the front, each to their own.
Year round, the biggest risk is the back end just letting go on bends on fast wet roads - common on rural A rads and amazing how often these vehicles find a tree. The bigger the difference in the tyres the lower speed it happens at - new tyres on the front and half-worn on the back is worse than four half-worn tyres. As I have never witnessed that in a FWD car (which is what we are all apparently discussing) I cannot comment, but I have aquaplaned and I have understeered
On relatively recent cars, ESP mitigates against this to some degree although there are limits to what it can do - my 2005 Merc handbook says put new tyres on the front for better steering as Merc ESP is so good, but MB dropped that advice from later models.
Obviously you can do whatever you think best but worth being cautious if other people drive the car.
E-bmw said:
Completely disagree.
New on the front every time.
Only compromise is that you need to use with care for the first few days/100 miles.
More tread depth = more resistance to aquaplaning, also more effective especially in CC/winter tyres as they should be changed by 4mm anyway as they become worse than summers in the winter at 4mm, ask ze Germans.
And that's exactly why they should be on the rear it far worse for the rear to aquaplane as you will end up spun aroundNew on the front every time.
Only compromise is that you need to use with care for the first few days/100 miles.
More tread depth = more resistance to aquaplaning, also more effective especially in CC/winter tyres as they should be changed by 4mm anyway as they become worse than summers in the winter at 4mm, ask ze Germans.
The rear tyres retaining grip while the front loses it will means it remains a lot more stable
Chris32345 said:
E-bmw said:
Completely disagree.
New on the front every time.
Only compromise is that you need to use with care for the first few days/100 miles.
More tread depth = more resistance to aquaplaning, also more effective especially in CC/winter tyres as they should be changed by 4mm anyway as they become worse than summers in the winter at 4mm, ask ze Germans.
And that's exactly why they should be on the rear it far worse for the rear to aquaplane as you will end up spun around unless you can catch it, which is possible on an oversteering carNew on the front every time.
Only compromise is that you need to use with care for the first few days/100 miles.
More tread depth = more resistance to aquaplaning, also more effective especially in CC/winter tyres as they should be changed by 4mm anyway as they become worse than summers in the winter at 4mm, ask ze Germans.
The rear tyres retaining grip while the front loses it will means it remains a lot more stable as you plough on into what/whoever is in front of you/whatever concrete/steel road furniture is in the vicinity
E-bmw said:
Chris32345 said:
E-bmw said:
Completely disagree.
New on the front every time.
Only compromise is that you need to use with care for the first few days/100 miles.
More tread depth = more resistance to aquaplaning, also more effective especially in CC/winter tyres as they should be changed by 4mm anyway as they become worse than summers in the winter at 4mm, ask ze Germans.
And that's exactly why they should be on the rear it far worse for the rear to aquaplane as you will end up spun around unless you can catch it, which is possible on an oversteering carNew on the front every time.
Only compromise is that you need to use with care for the first few days/100 miles.
More tread depth = more resistance to aquaplaning, also more effective especially in CC/winter tyres as they should be changed by 4mm anyway as they become worse than summers in the winter at 4mm, ask ze Germans.
The rear tyres retaining grip while the front loses it will means it remains a lot more stable as you plough on into what/whoever is in front of you/whatever concrete/steel road furniture is in the vicinity
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOUnOMaCCZ4
https://youtu.be/qYcTrzmePnU
Show me some car tyre manufacturers who agree with you. If you can, I will show you 5 that don't!
Oh, the aquaplaning issue you ramble on about: sorry to point this out, but since this is a car forum, you are talking complete bulls
t!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfLXFHCSiwk
"I had so much more control of the vehicle when they were in the rear"
Maybe just accept that in this case, there is a better way.....
mikeiow said:
E-bmw said:
Chris32345 said:
E-bmw said:
Completely disagree.
New on the front every time.
Only compromise is that you need to use with care for the first few days/100 miles.
More tread depth = more resistance to aquaplaning, also more effective especially in CC/winter tyres as they should be changed by 4mm anyway as they become worse than summers in the winter at 4mm, ask ze Germans.
And that's exactly why they should be on the rear it far worse for the rear to aquaplane as you will end up spun around unless you can catch it, which is possible on an oversteering carNew on the front every time.
Only compromise is that you need to use with care for the first few days/100 miles.
More tread depth = more resistance to aquaplaning, also more effective especially in CC/winter tyres as they should be changed by 4mm anyway as they become worse than summers in the winter at 4mm, ask ze Germans.
The rear tyres retaining grip while the front loses it will means it remains a lot more stable as you plough on into what/whoever is in front of you/whatever concrete/steel road furniture is in the vicinity
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOUnOMaCCZ4
https://youtu.be/qYcTrzmePnU
Show me some car tyre manufacturers who agree with you. If you can, I will show you 5 that don't!
Oh, the aquaplaning issue you ramble on about: sorry to point this out, but since this is a car forum, you are talking complete bulls
t!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfLXFHCSiwk
"I had so much more control of the vehicle when they were in the rear"
Maybe just accept that in this case, there is a better way.....
Maybe I am talking B/S, but all that video shows is that that driver in that car felt like he had more control. Maybe he has never had oversteer before, maybe he is just an "average Joe" who doesn't understand the difference & just because it is the right decision for him, doesn't mean it will be the right one for everyone. I also pointed out above complete acceptance of "understeer is generally considered a safer handling trait".
At no point have I either belittled the viewpoint or right to have an opinion contrary, just expressed a disagreement, so why don't you actually read what has been written, build a bridge & get over it.
Edited by E-bmw on Monday 16th August 09:23
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