How many miles from Michelin CrossClimates (& other tyres)?
Discussion
I tried putting my fronts on the rear, but I ended up with lots of oversteer and zero understeer.
Don't know if it was down to the fronts being more worn than the rears, or the fronts being 265s and the rears 225s, but it was fun!
Suppose having cars for the last ~20 years which have a staggered set-up means I'll have to always replace all 4 as I can't move the fronts to the rear and put the new rears on the front then! Maybe I'll just stick to replacing the tyres that are worn with new ones on the same axle?
Don't know if it was down to the fronts being more worn than the rears, or the fronts being 265s and the rears 225s, but it was fun!
Suppose having cars for the last ~20 years which have a staggered set-up means I'll have to always replace all 4 as I can't move the fronts to the rear and put the new rears on the front then! Maybe I'll just stick to replacing the tyres that are worn with new ones on the same axle?
Edited by mmm-five on Monday 16th August 09:51
E-bmw said:
mikeiow said:
E-bmw said:
Chris32345 said:
E-bmw said:
Completely disagree.
New on the front every time.
Only compromise is that you need to use with care for the first few days/100 miles.
More tread depth = more resistance to aquaplaning, also more effective especially in CC/winter tyres as they should be changed by 4mm anyway as they become worse than summers in the winter at 4mm, ask ze Germans.
And that's exactly why they should be on the rear it far worse for the rear to aquaplane as you will end up spun around unless you can catch it, which is possible on an oversteering carNew on the front every time.
Only compromise is that you need to use with care for the first few days/100 miles.
More tread depth = more resistance to aquaplaning, also more effective especially in CC/winter tyres as they should be changed by 4mm anyway as they become worse than summers in the winter at 4mm, ask ze Germans.
The rear tyres retaining grip while the front loses it will means it remains a lot more stable as you plough on into what/whoever is in front of you/whatever concrete/steel road furniture is in the vicinity
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOUnOMaCCZ4
https://youtu.be/qYcTrzmePnU
Show me some car tyre manufacturers who agree with you. If you can, I will show you 5 that don't!
Oh, the aquaplaning issue you ramble on about: sorry to point this out, but since this is a car forum, you are talking complete bulls
t!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfLXFHCSiwk
"I had so much more control of the vehicle when they were in the rear"
Maybe just accept that in this case, there is a better way.....
Maybe I am talking B/S, but all that video shows is that that driver in that car felt like he had more control. Maybe he has never had oversteer before, maybe he is just an "average Joe" who doesn't understand the difference & just because it is the right decision for him, doesn't mean it will be the right one for everyone. I also pointed out above complete acceptance of "understeer is generally considered a safer handling trait".
At no point have I either belittled the viewpoint or right to have an opinion contrary, just expressed a disagreement, so why don't you actually read what has been written, build a bridge & get over it.
Edited by E-bmw on Monday 16th August 09:23
Your prize is a full set of Ling Long ditchfinders.
2 are part-worn. Let us know how you like them.
^ 
What I like to see on forums is posts by people who like to claim that they'd rather have sudden unexpected oversteer on a wet public road. What they maybe need to experience is just that, and then realise how quickly you can find yourself in that ditch. The deluded vision of glorious power-on oversteer, adjusting the car’s angle with the throttle is hilarious. It usually goes something like “Oops, that was a.. bang.”
What I like to see on forums is posts by people who like to claim that they'd rather have sudden unexpected oversteer on a wet public road. What they maybe need to experience is just that, and then realise how quickly you can find yourself in that ditch. The deluded vision of glorious power-on oversteer, adjusting the car’s angle with the throttle is hilarious. It usually goes something like “Oops, that was a.. bang.”
Hi
Thanks so much for all the replies and the "lively" discussion. It has been interesting comparing the different points of view.
30,000 even 40,000+ is what some people get. Others are more like me or even get a tad lower. I've done around 17,000 miles in the last two years. I'd say around half of that would be travelling from Wales to Norfolk (so predominantly motorways). The other half is driving very minor roads in rural Wales, some of them barely fit for purpose! I do check pressure often, so don't think that is an issue. But the uneven wear would suggest the tracking is off and perhaps I'd have got more out of them if it wasn't. Driving style varies as me and my partner use the car. And even just my driving style alone varies depending on how late I'm running!
What I'd be really interested to know is how many miles I'd get out of a pair of more standard tyres. My mechanic - and the internet blog by the Welsh taxi drive - would suggest around 11,000 miles. I haven't been in Wales long enough to experience it for myself. As such, I'm going to put x3 new Avons ZT5s on (so they'll all then match) and see how it does. Whilst it is nice to have the CCs, the likelihood of actually needing to drive in bad conditions is tiny with my current lifestyle and work. If that changes then I can reconsider. In the meantime I'll find out first hand how the mileage compares. And if what I've been told RE mileage ends up being true, then I guess it will be CCs all round in the future as they'll actually work out to be cheaper in the long run.
What swung it in the end for me was that the only problem I'd ever experienced in the past was getting stuck on ice/snow (and that was in a different car with standard tyres). Those who favoured front made the point that if you cannot get going in the first place, then you won't be moving at all. They also said braking would be more controllable, and that if you drove with extreme care and very slowly, the chances of the back end spinning out would be much less. I'm on the fence to be honest, not knowing much about the subject and not having had much experience driving in ice or snow.
But as above, I'm just going to get standard Avon tyres for now and see what miles I get out of them, whilst avoiding driving in the ice/snow altogether!
Cheers
Thanks so much for all the replies and the "lively" discussion. It has been interesting comparing the different points of view.
The Spruce Goose said:
You seem to be mixing things, CC are all season tyres so cheap all season tyres will wear quicker, but normal cheap tyres are usually harder tyres so will wear longer but obviously come with downsides, poor rain weather etc.
Sorry, I should have been clearer. I was comparing CC ALL Seasons with normal cheap(er) tyres. More on that below...Sheepshanks said:
Which engine in the Fabia?
It's a 1.2 petrol. Sheepshanks said:
What's on the back?
Both "normal" tyres. One is approaching need for replacement so will get that done when changing the fronts. The other is quite new with very little wear, and is an Avon ZT5. - ***REGARDING MILEAGE*****
30,000 even 40,000+ is what some people get. Others are more like me or even get a tad lower. I've done around 17,000 miles in the last two years. I'd say around half of that would be travelling from Wales to Norfolk (so predominantly motorways). The other half is driving very minor roads in rural Wales, some of them barely fit for purpose! I do check pressure often, so don't think that is an issue. But the uneven wear would suggest the tracking is off and perhaps I'd have got more out of them if it wasn't. Driving style varies as me and my partner use the car. And even just my driving style alone varies depending on how late I'm running!
What I'd be really interested to know is how many miles I'd get out of a pair of more standard tyres. My mechanic - and the internet blog by the Welsh taxi drive - would suggest around 11,000 miles. I haven't been in Wales long enough to experience it for myself. As such, I'm going to put x3 new Avons ZT5s on (so they'll all then match) and see how it does. Whilst it is nice to have the CCs, the likelihood of actually needing to drive in bad conditions is tiny with my current lifestyle and work. If that changes then I can reconsider. In the meantime I'll find out first hand how the mileage compares. And if what I've been told RE mileage ends up being true, then I guess it will be CCs all round in the future as they'll actually work out to be cheaper in the long run.
- ***REGARDING FRONT VS BACK*****
What swung it in the end for me was that the only problem I'd ever experienced in the past was getting stuck on ice/snow (and that was in a different car with standard tyres). Those who favoured front made the point that if you cannot get going in the first place, then you won't be moving at all. They also said braking would be more controllable, and that if you drove with extreme care and very slowly, the chances of the back end spinning out would be much less. I'm on the fence to be honest, not knowing much about the subject and not having had much experience driving in ice or snow.
But as above, I'm just going to get standard Avon tyres for now and see what miles I get out of them, whilst avoiding driving in the ice/snow altogether!
Cheers
E-bmw said:
No thanks, I will carry on as I am as knowing me/my car/the way I drive, I feel it is very much the safer option, but every one is going to make their own risk assessment based on their own circumstances, and that is fine by me.
And here is Mr I'm god's gift to driving and so far up my own rearJust like the people who thing they are safer then the abs system at keeping a car in a line and not locking the wheels when braking heavyily
Daughter's 1 litre SEAT Ateca had a set of Cross Climates 12K ago - just checked them tonight and the fronts are a shade over 5mm and the rears 6.5mm.
Original Bridgestones Turanzas lasted 19.5K miles and that was with rotating them about half-way through. They would have gone a bit longer but took advantage of a price deal at Costco to buy the Cross Climates and wanted to get them on as winter approached.
Car does a 50/50 mix of bashing along country lanes and steady motorway.
Original Bridgestones Turanzas lasted 19.5K miles and that was with rotating them about half-way through. They would have gone a bit longer but took advantage of a price deal at Costco to buy the Cross Climates and wanted to get them on as winter approached.
Car does a 50/50 mix of bashing along country lanes and steady motorway.
Chris32345 said:
E-bmw said:
No thanks, I will carry on as I am as knowing me/my car/the way I drive, I feel it is very much the safer option, but every one is going to make their own risk assessment based on their own circumstances, and that is fine by me.
And here is Mr I'm god's gift to driving and so far up my own rearJust like the people who thing they are safer then the abs system at keeping a car in a line and not locking the wheels when braking heavyily
Maximus Decimus Meridius said:
E-bmw said:
mikeiow said:
E-bmw said:
Chris32345 said:
E-bmw said:
Completely disagree.
New on the front every time.
Only compromise is that you need to use with care for the first few days/100 miles.
More tread depth = more resistance to aquaplaning, also more effective especially in CC/winter tyres as they should be changed by 4mm anyway as they become worse than summers in the winter at 4mm, ask ze Germans.
And that's exactly why they should be on the rear it far worse for the rear to aquaplane as you will end up spun around unless you can catch it, which is possible on an oversteering carNew on the front every time.
Only compromise is that you need to use with care for the first few days/100 miles.
More tread depth = more resistance to aquaplaning, also more effective especially in CC/winter tyres as they should be changed by 4mm anyway as they become worse than summers in the winter at 4mm, ask ze Germans.
The rear tyres retaining grip while the front loses it will means it remains a lot more stable as you plough on into what/whoever is in front of you/whatever concrete/steel road furniture is in the vicinity
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOUnOMaCCZ4
https://youtu.be/qYcTrzmePnU
Show me some car tyre manufacturers who agree with you. If you can, I will show you 5 that don't!
Oh, the aquaplaning issue you ramble on about: sorry to point this out, but since this is a car forum, you are talking complete bulls
t!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfLXFHCSiwk
"I had so much more control of the vehicle when they were in the rear"
Maybe just accept that in this case, there is a better way.....
Maybe I am talking B/S, but all that video shows is that that driver in that car felt like he had more control. Maybe he has never had oversteer before, maybe he is just an "average Joe" who doesn't understand the difference & just because it is the right decision for him, doesn't mean it will be the right one for everyone. I also pointed out above complete acceptance of "understeer is generally considered a safer handling trait".
At no point have I either belittled the viewpoint or right to have an opinion contrary, just expressed a disagreement, so why don't you actually read what has been written, build a bridge & get over it.
Edited by E-bmw on Monday 16th August 09:23
However I defend yours & others rights to an opinion as I do mine.
Just remember what is right for you may not be right for others.
Tony1963 said:
Some have trouble distinguishing opinion from fact.
Funny.
OK, here are all the FACTS in my circumstances and 40 years of driving.Funny.
Have I ever experienced (what appears to be the only reason for new on the rear as far as every bit of evidence that has been presented as fact thus far, as in) snap uncontrollable oversteer in the wet? - No, FACT.
Have I ever experience uncontrollable aquaplaning on the front? - Yes with low tread on the front, FACT.
When the front wheels are aquaplaning can you steer or brake? - Not unless you want to go straight to the scene of the accident, FACT.
Has it ever happened since me putting the newer/deeper treaded tyres on the front? - No, FACT.
At what tread depth do I retire tyres from the car in a pair & put new on the front? - 3 - 4mm, FACT.
So as it is, I base my opinion on facts rather than the opinions of others, I have a mind of my own & make my own decisions, without feeling the need to force others to follow mine, or deride them for not doing so.
Munter said:
Oh look. A thread with more posts by Cun** s than anything actually useful.
Anyway lots of motorway I can get 40-50k out of a set of whatever tyres.
But I did once burn through a set of Toyo T1S in 8k. So.... mileage mentioned not unreasonable, but not great.
Having a bad day? Need a hug?Anyway lots of motorway I can get 40-50k out of a set of whatever tyres.
But I did once burn through a set of Toyo T1S in 8k. So.... mileage mentioned not unreasonable, but not great.
E-bmw said:
Correct, as the new ones would start their wear slower, accept that.
However..... I don't buy/fit tyres to last longer, I buy tyres to grip the road.
Ok, they grip the road better for longer. It really is easy for the OP to try this, and at worse it costs nothing, at best he gets 30-100% more mileage. However..... I don't buy/fit tyres to last longer, I buy tyres to grip the road.
Tony1963 said:
E-bmw said:
Correct, as the new ones would start their wear slower, accept that.
However..... I don't buy/fit tyres to last longer, I buy tyres to grip the road.
It really is easy for the OP to try this, and at worse it costs nothing, at best he gets 30-100% more mileage. However..... I don't buy/fit tyres to last longer, I buy tyres to grip the road.
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