40+ year old cars exempt from MOT?
Discussion
There's quite a lot of discussion of this over in the classics section. Quite a divisive thing. Seems to be a trade-off between the stats of accidents involving cars of that age, and the difficulties of expecting MOT stations to be able to deal with different requirements on some older cars.
GoodOlBoy said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Baby-faced MOT testers are still failing around 30% of all the cars that will soon be exempt. Ergo there will soon be tens of thousands of cars that don't meet key roadworthiness requirements.
An unnecessary exemption that serves no useful purpose IMHO.
The typical car that fails the test as being 'un-roadworthy' is the 10 to 15 year old car run on a shoestring by hard up folk who don't have cars serviced and fettled regularly and just fix cars when they fail the test
Once again the people who have had their heads buried in the sand for nine months come back to life and find there is "something new" to query. This has been discussed ad nauseam, and I refute the inference that this will lead to considerable amount of unsafe cars.
1. Up to now all pre-1960 cars are MOT exempt. Has that resulted in a vast rise in death and injury? Discuss
2. Increasing the age limit to 40 years will have a great impact on safety and road deaths? Discuss.
3. Lost revenue to the Government? How? Discuss
4. Lost revenue to garages suppliers. How? Discuss.
5. " potentially some very unsafe dodgy cars on our roads". Is there proof that since the exemption of pre-1960 cars from the MOT Armageddon has arrived? Discuss.
6. Are most MOT stations equipped to cope with classic MOTs? Discuss.
Have you bothered to actually do an internet search on the DVLA reasons behind all this? I guess not. Have you discerned the statistics that show the average annual mileage per car depending on age? Once again, I think not. The average classic does less that one thousand mile per annum. I have a friend with eight classics, and I reckon that after the 20th May most will have zero mileage per annum, since they don't need to go for an MOT. He collects, he doesn't drive, but those that need it do the five miles there and five miles back to qualify for that little piece of paper. But he is an engineer and they are better maintained than most cars. Do you think that the changes will give carte blanche to classic owners to let their maintenance go by the board so that they are driving suicidal death traps? Or do you think that classic owners will actually take more care of their cars than modern owners?
Please remember that an MOT only states that the car is roadworthy on the day it is tested and that any another day it may fail. It isn't a yearly ticket to drive. Rant over, but since I have been involved in this for months it does irk when people cannot be bothered to do a little research before asking questions.
1. Up to now all pre-1960 cars are MOT exempt. Has that resulted in a vast rise in death and injury? Discuss
2. Increasing the age limit to 40 years will have a great impact on safety and road deaths? Discuss.
3. Lost revenue to the Government? How? Discuss
4. Lost revenue to garages suppliers. How? Discuss.
5. " potentially some very unsafe dodgy cars on our roads". Is there proof that since the exemption of pre-1960 cars from the MOT Armageddon has arrived? Discuss.
6. Are most MOT stations equipped to cope with classic MOTs? Discuss.
Have you bothered to actually do an internet search on the DVLA reasons behind all this? I guess not. Have you discerned the statistics that show the average annual mileage per car depending on age? Once again, I think not. The average classic does less that one thousand mile per annum. I have a friend with eight classics, and I reckon that after the 20th May most will have zero mileage per annum, since they don't need to go for an MOT. He collects, he doesn't drive, but those that need it do the five miles there and five miles back to qualify for that little piece of paper. But he is an engineer and they are better maintained than most cars. Do you think that the changes will give carte blanche to classic owners to let their maintenance go by the board so that they are driving suicidal death traps? Or do you think that classic owners will actually take more care of their cars than modern owners?
Please remember that an MOT only states that the car is roadworthy on the day it is tested and that any another day it may fail. It isn't a yearly ticket to drive. Rant over, but since I have been involved in this for months it does irk when people cannot be bothered to do a little research before asking questions.
lowdrag said:
(part quote)
Please remember that an MOT only states that the car is roadworthy on the day it is tested and that any another day it may fail. It isn't a yearly ticket to drive.
Excellent point and something that is either not generally realised or conveniently ignored by many folks, both within and without the classic car brigade. Please remember that an MOT only states that the car is roadworthy on the day it is tested and that any another day it may fail. It isn't a yearly ticket to drive.
A new MoT is a bit like Linus's security blanket, it lets you think your car is roadworthy and on the day of test that's perfectly true. A week later ? After you've driven over some broken glass without realising and cut your tyre ? Or after you've pulled it apart for some TLC, new brake pads, etc ? Your month old MoT now means nothing, the onus is on you (or your mechanic/garage) to ensure the car is roadworthy.
Having said that, an MoT which checks for body corrosion and the basics of steering/braking/suspension where you usually have slow & gradual deterioration is a good idea for getting some fresh eyes on your car. There's nothing to stop an individual making such an arrangement with their local garage and I suspect most car clubs will suggest that as a way forward for members unhappy with not having the standard MoT test.
I fully understand the reasons why people are worried by the safety aspect of no mot but in all honesty most of the times I see 40+ year old cars they are normally poodling round the local area they reside in or Life In The Slow Lane on the motorway looking rather shiney and nice. Problems could arise later on down the line when something like a cheap uncherished XJS HE come into that 40 year old bracket. The scarey bit is when them plentiful old BMW's from the 90's onwards become mot exempt as they seem to be car of choice for the local tearaway.
Imho 40 year old mot exemption is ok at the moment but will not be as it rolls on.
Imho 40 year old mot exemption is ok at the moment but will not be as it rolls on.
Oh, and a comment I forgot to make. In over 30 years of ownership I have had one advisory and that for a ball joint. The car was driving fine and I forgot it, and the following year like magic the advisory disappeared! I do not "poodle along", having seen 120 mph on the clock last week, but I do make sure my cars are properly maintained. And I am not one of the 1,000 mile a year set either, although illness has made me a member for a couple of years. Now in fine health, the XKSS will do a minimum of 1,000 in June alone. Today is important, so we are going to the seasside. 300 miles in lovely weather. I hope you will be doing the same.
I've always felt this was the thin end of the wedge, and just one serious accident (or rather, just one media cause celebre) involving an MoT exempt car would result in a political knee-jerk overreaction, ending up with way more stringent and expensive inspections at a vastly reduced number of locations ... 300 GBP at a DVSA location, anyone?
Somewhere there's a politician just waiting for an old Jaag to plough through a crowd of nuns carrying baskets of kittens and explode in an orphanage
Somewhere there's a politician just waiting for an old Jaag to plough through a crowd of nuns carrying baskets of kittens and explode in an orphanage
RedCarsAnonymous said:
I've always felt this was the thin end of the wedge, and just one serious accident (or rather, just one media cause celebre) involving an MoT exempt car would result in a political knee-jerk overreaction...
Somewhere there's a politician just waiting for an old Jaag to plough through a crowd of nuns carrying baskets of kittens and explode in an orphanage
They've been waiting for five years already.Somewhere there's a politician just waiting for an old Jaag to plough through a crowd of nuns carrying baskets of kittens and explode in an orphanage
Prior to the MOT i can recall absolute death traps going about.
Chassis so far out of kilter the car took up most of the road going forward
pulling up the carpets to find cardboard between your feet and the road. or in some cases just the carpet
Steering that took half a turn of the wheel to get any input
CBrake pedals going down to the floor for various reasons ( cables slack, clevis pins worn oval.no fluid No seals!!
A chap leaning on the front wing of an old Ford nad it falling of due to the rust finally giving way on keeping it attached
Just some of the things i have seen. others may have more horror stories
Following the first MOT there was a great influx of cars to the local scrapper. Jones at Waltham Cross had them piled 6 high, and in those days you went in and removed bits yourself. Today breakers no fun at all!
Chassis so far out of kilter the car took up most of the road going forward
pulling up the carpets to find cardboard between your feet and the road. or in some cases just the carpet
Steering that took half a turn of the wheel to get any input
CBrake pedals going down to the floor for various reasons ( cables slack, clevis pins worn oval.no fluid No seals!!
A chap leaning on the front wing of an old Ford nad it falling of due to the rust finally giving way on keeping it attached
Just some of the things i have seen. others may have more horror stories
Following the first MOT there was a great influx of cars to the local scrapper. Jones at Waltham Cross had them piled 6 high, and in those days you went in and removed bits yourself. Today breakers no fun at all!
amgmcqueen said:
On the 20th of May this year, classic cars which are 40+ years old will no longer require an MOT.
Can anybody explain the thinking behind this...? Lost revenue to the government from garages/parts suppliers and potentially some very unsafe dodgy cars on our roads?
Yes it’s a bit dodgy IMO. I do most of my own work but many I know rely on the MOT to do it for them. There will be a lot of owners who adopt the ‘well it was OK the last time I was out’ view, not ‘that was a year ago’. Preventative maintenance of brakes/steering/suspension just won’t happen in many cases.Can anybody explain the thinking behind this...? Lost revenue to the government from garages/parts suppliers and potentially some very unsafe dodgy cars on our roads?
The latest MOT rules would be N/A for most classic cars so there is no point in them having one.Mind you I used to enjoy taking my classic for its MOT.It was a formality and an opportunity to show off my car AND my workmanship. No MOT on a 40+ year old classic car does not necessarily mean it could be unsafe. More than likely that car(like mine) had been fully restored by a skilled enthusiast,cherished,well cared for,and only comes out when the sun shines. BUT ! Its an old outdated car, its whole design can be considered unsafe.
I loved my old 1964 Peugeot Pininfarina Cabriolet, I spent £000`s and 100`s of hours restoring it, it was in perfect condition,back to as it was FIFTY FOUR YEARS AGO !! .......... Compared with a 2018 Peugeot that car was ridiculously unsafe to drive in modern traffic.
LHD ! No seat belts or air bags,drum brakes without servo or ABS, no PAS, metal dash, big solid steering wheel with a metal horn ring, metal fuel tank behind the rear bumper, the list goes on, and the design of the cabriolet body shell meant it would just fold up or break in half in a big accident. Would a nice new MOT certificate mean anything ?
Almost all classic car owners are very sensible people and would not dream of using the car if it was defective.
I loved my old 1964 Peugeot Pininfarina Cabriolet, I spent £000`s and 100`s of hours restoring it, it was in perfect condition,back to as it was FIFTY FOUR YEARS AGO !! .......... Compared with a 2018 Peugeot that car was ridiculously unsafe to drive in modern traffic.
LHD ! No seat belts or air bags,drum brakes without servo or ABS, no PAS, metal dash, big solid steering wheel with a metal horn ring, metal fuel tank behind the rear bumper, the list goes on, and the design of the cabriolet body shell meant it would just fold up or break in half in a big accident. Would a nice new MOT certificate mean anything ?
Almost all classic car owners are very sensible people and would not dream of using the car if it was defective.
Edited by Old Merc on Sunday 22 April 11:35
lowdrag said:
Once again the people who have had their heads buried in the sand for nine months come back to life and find there is "something new" to query. This has been discussed ad nauseam, and I refute the inference that this will lead to considerable amount of unsafe cars.
1. Up to now all pre-1960 cars are MOT exempt. Has that resulted in a vast rise in death and injury? Discuss
2. Increasing the age limit to 40 years will have a great impact on safety and road deaths? Discuss.
3. Lost revenue to the Government? How? Discuss
4. Lost revenue to garages suppliers. How? Discuss.
5. " potentially some very unsafe dodgy cars on our roads". Is there proof that since the exemption of pre-1960 cars from the MOT Armageddon has arrived? Discuss.
6. Are most MOT stations equipped to cope with classic MOTs? Discuss.
Have you bothered to actually do an internet search on the DVLA reasons behind all this? I guess not. Have you discerned the statistics that show the average annual mileage per car depending on age? Once again, I think not. The average classic does less that one thousand mile per annum. I have a friend with eight classics, and I reckon that after the 20th May most will have zero mileage per annum, since they don't need to go for an MOT. He collects, he doesn't drive, but those that need it do the five miles there and five miles back to qualify for that little piece of paper. But he is an engineer and they are better maintained than most cars. Do you think that the changes will give carte blanche to classic owners to let their maintenance go by the board so that they are driving suicidal death traps? Or do you think that classic owners will actually take more care of their cars than modern owners?
Please remember that an MOT only states that the car is roadworthy on the day it is tested and that any another day it may fail. It isn't a yearly ticket to drive. Rant over, but since I have been involved in this for months it does irk when people cannot be bothered to do a little research before asking questions.
Are all classic cars owned by meticulous owners who do all their own maintenance, and ensure that their car are in perfect order, regardless of cost? - Discuss1. Up to now all pre-1960 cars are MOT exempt. Has that resulted in a vast rise in death and injury? Discuss
2. Increasing the age limit to 40 years will have a great impact on safety and road deaths? Discuss.
3. Lost revenue to the Government? How? Discuss
4. Lost revenue to garages suppliers. How? Discuss.
5. " potentially some very unsafe dodgy cars on our roads". Is there proof that since the exemption of pre-1960 cars from the MOT Armageddon has arrived? Discuss.
6. Are most MOT stations equipped to cope with classic MOTs? Discuss.
Have you bothered to actually do an internet search on the DVLA reasons behind all this? I guess not. Have you discerned the statistics that show the average annual mileage per car depending on age? Once again, I think not. The average classic does less that one thousand mile per annum. I have a friend with eight classics, and I reckon that after the 20th May most will have zero mileage per annum, since they don't need to go for an MOT. He collects, he doesn't drive, but those that need it do the five miles there and five miles back to qualify for that little piece of paper. But he is an engineer and they are better maintained than most cars. Do you think that the changes will give carte blanche to classic owners to let their maintenance go by the board so that they are driving suicidal death traps? Or do you think that classic owners will actually take more care of their cars than modern owners?
Please remember that an MOT only states that the car is roadworthy on the day it is tested and that any another day it may fail. It isn't a yearly ticket to drive. Rant over, but since I have been involved in this for months it does irk when people cannot be bothered to do a little research before asking questions.
Do all classic car owners look after their cars better than owners of newer cars? - Discuss
How many pre-1960 cars have severe defects that the owners are not aware of? - Discuss
How many pre-1960 cars have defects that the owners are aware of but don't realise are serious defects? - Discuss
How many pre-1960 cars were designed so well that they are not prone to severe defects? - Discuss
Are cars that have an annual safety check (MOT), more likely to have defects discovered than cars that do not have an annual safety check? - Discuss
Is the fact that a classic car only gets driven for a few miles every year (if at all), a good thing for the car, or a bad thing? - Discuss
The reality is, you can't generalise that all classic car owners are devoted mechanics keeping their cars in perfect order, just as you can't generalise that all newer car owners pay their cars no attention whatsoever.
There are plenty of classic car owners who do not have a clue about their cars - They simply buy them because they like the look of them, they think they look "cool", they think they will make money from them, etc., etc., etc.
The steering's a bit vague? - "That's just the age of the car, they're all a bit loose!" , the owner not realising that no, it shouldn't be that vague, and that there is some serious wear in the steering/suspension components.
The brakes aren't very good? - "That's just how they were back in those days", not realising that, no, your front brakes are barely working, and your rear brakes are doing nothing at all!
There's a bit of body flex! - "No, that's just how the chassis' were back then!", not realising that actually, there's some serious, hidden structural corrosion that is allowing excessive body flex.
You've only got to watch a few episodes of "CAR SOS" to see that there are some classic cars that have suffered severe issues over the years, and plenty of classic car owners who have carried out poor quality repairs, both of which could have ended up with the car being a death-trap just waiting to happen (Yes these tend to be extreme cases, bit the classic car World is full of bodged car horror stories!)
The discussion might "irk" you, but it can't simply be ruled out that that 40+ year old cars will not have serious defects that will go undetected due to no longer requiring an annual MOT, on the basis that all classic cars are restored, serviced and maintained perfectly.
Oh, I'm not saying that the world is perfect; far from it. But the problem is that the business of the MOT is getting more and more technical and complicated. There are fewer and fewer stations that can or want to take the job on. When my E-type was rear-ended a year back the assessor could not for the life of him understand the costs involved to repair the car. He seemed to think that a new wing came off, a new one went on, it got painted and you took it home. Trying to discuss lead-loading was like talking a foreign language. And so it is with the youngsters in the MOT stations today. They don't understand our cars and aren't qualified to judge them. And I am not saying I believe the government is necessarily right either, but they are only following on from Europe where 25 year old cars are becoming exempt too. That goes a lot further than the UK. A 1993 Lister Storm MOT exempt? Hoe does that grab you?
I am going with what is, and accepting it. During the London-Brighton there was a serious crash last time, with one dead. Even if the car carries an MOT, things happen. I had a serious brake problem today when the N/S Front suddenly locked on. I bled the nipple and did another 60 miles and no further problem. For the life of me I can't figure out why since we took the brakes and servos apart only last autumn. New fluid, new seals, so why? s
t happens unfortunately. All I was getting fed up with is that the same questions appear time and time again, all from people who can't be bothered to do a bit of googling first. It is galling. My cars are properly serviced every year, and the XKSS will be doing around 700 miles in five days including two hill climbs in June. We are servicing the car beginning of May, doing an oil change, and testing the car. Theoretically the car will be spot-on. Or will it now? Will the accelerator stick full on coming out of a bend? Will a tyre blow at speed? We just have to live with the inconsistencies of life I'm afraid.
I am going with what is, and accepting it. During the London-Brighton there was a serious crash last time, with one dead. Even if the car carries an MOT, things happen. I had a serious brake problem today when the N/S Front suddenly locked on. I bled the nipple and did another 60 miles and no further problem. For the life of me I can't figure out why since we took the brakes and servos apart only last autumn. New fluid, new seals, so why? s
t happens unfortunately. All I was getting fed up with is that the same questions appear time and time again, all from people who can't be bothered to do a bit of googling first. It is galling. My cars are properly serviced every year, and the XKSS will be doing around 700 miles in five days including two hill climbs in June. We are servicing the car beginning of May, doing an oil change, and testing the car. Theoretically the car will be spot-on. Or will it now? Will the accelerator stick full on coming out of a bend? Will a tyre blow at speed? We just have to live with the inconsistencies of life I'm afraid.anonymous said:
[redacted]
Lowdrag - you are doing all you can to ensure that your vehicle is as safe as it can be. Putting it all in some kind of context - i.e. I was going down a local urban 'rat-run' with loads of speed humps a couple of days ago. There was a late model Astra, perhaps Audi A3 blocking the road at an odd angle with some lads jacking the nearside front wheel up. Looking at the 30 foot skid mark it was obvious that the front suspension had collapsed. I'm presuming the car was legal, perhaps regularly serviced and MOT'd. Why did it happen? who knows - it could have just as easily been one of our cars with metal fatigue. My lad's 62' TBird had this - he happened to drive over a pothole (with a large clunk) - next day moving the car out of the garage the drivers side front wheel spindle snapped. Fortunately he wasn't driving at the time as he'd have lost the brakes completely and who knows what might have happened. My own Vette had the 9/16"s or 5/8"s trailing arm pivot bolt snap (unbeknown to me)and gradually start to work its way out of the chassis. It was only some odd noises and a power on/off rear end kick to one side that alerted me to the issue - I may not have been writing this if it had all come apart at speed......anonymous said:
[redacted]
No it won't but it wouldn't have to. On the whole the MoT judged cars by the standards of the day they were built.The MoT manual gave several date-related brake efficiency standards including for the earliest cars a "must have effective brakes" kind of standard, but without any indication of what "effective" had to be. I had to get one of my cars re-classified as, although it was first used and registered in 1912, the DVLA had the date of first registration as 1921 (i.e. when the car was first registered under the 1920 "Roads Act"). I have to say it passed using the post-1915 criteria for two-wheel brakes anyway, but that wasn't the point.
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