S1 Elise Values
Discussion
antiok said:
highway said:
But if a car with 50-60k is £13k, isn’t £16k -17k cheap for a car with a third of the miles and correspondingly less cosmetic wear. Not like the premium is enormous.
I’d always prefer a looked after low miles car than one with big miles. Provenance being equal. If a leggy car has had lots of remedial work done it doesn’t mean a low miles car hasn’t.
Mileage isn't everything agreed, but generally a 20-30k mile car hasn't had much in way of upgrades to the original crap bits and they are all 20 years old now... If you actually want a car you can reliably use for road and maybe a track day or two a year you'd probably want -I’d always prefer a looked after low miles car than one with big miles. Provenance being equal. If a leggy car has had lots of remedial work done it doesn’t mean a low miles car hasn’t.
- upgrade from original Konis + suspension refresh (rubber degrades) = £2k at least with basic S2 Bilsteins, more for something appropriate for track
- aluminium radiator / prrt to minimise risk of HGF (if it hasn't already happened) = £1k (by time clam comes off and you replace all the other bits that rot over time) + another £1k risk down the line if HGF hasn't already been dealt with.
- Decent, recent tyres (lower mileage cars tend to have aged tyres as less need to replace) - £500
- A decent set of toe links = £300 +
- A half decent exhaust (original is garbage and heavy) = £500
So before you know it you might need to spend £4k to get the original car in shape for decent use.
Obviously this is going to vary car to car but this is why I think 'original' cars with more than collector level miles may be less desirable to buyers who actually want to drive them.
+1
I spent £4k in 5 years doing most of that. It’s all the aggro with things like perished fuel filler pipes (they’re not actually MEANT to smell of petrol the whole time you know...) and rotten towing posts that takes time and energy.
Even in my current Evora world I firmly believe a garage queen is a pain in the bum. These are the cars with niggles like slow electric windows and other maladies from lack of use.
I spent £4k in 5 years doing most of that. It’s all the aggro with things like perished fuel filler pipes (they’re not actually MEANT to smell of petrol the whole time you know...) and rotten towing posts that takes time and energy.
Even in my current Evora world I firmly believe a garage queen is a pain in the bum. These are the cars with niggles like slow electric windows and other maladies from lack of use.
Where as a low miles car is likely in better shape with less wear to the interior and paint that isn’t micro blistered or peppered with stone chips. Low miles means get a premium for a reason.
I can see cars with sub 10k present a problem with use if you want to maintain a big premium. I disagree that a car is with 22k is in any way unusable. I can’t see there’s much difference between a car with 20k and 30k, given the cars are over 20 years old and assuming condition the similar. I average 4K a year in mine as, like most Elise’s, it’s not a daily car. That means someone could use for a few years and still have, by any measure, a low miles car.
The days of sub £10k Elise’s in tidy running condition are long gone yet there are those who seem gripped with resentment that the cars aren’t still at that level.
Happy eliseing all!
I can see cars with sub 10k present a problem with use if you want to maintain a big premium. I disagree that a car is with 22k is in any way unusable. I can’t see there’s much difference between a car with 20k and 30k, given the cars are over 20 years old and assuming condition the similar. I average 4K a year in mine as, like most Elise’s, it’s not a daily car. That means someone could use for a few years and still have, by any measure, a low miles car.
The days of sub £10k Elise’s in tidy running condition are long gone yet there are those who seem gripped with resentment that the cars aren’t still at that level.
Happy eliseing all!
highway said:
The days of sub £10k Elise’s in tidy running condition are long gone yet there are those who seem gripped with resentment that the cars aren’t still at that level.
No doubt true to a degree.You raised a thread enquiring on state of the market. I think the consensus is that it has turned and asking prices need to fall. Sellers disagree so it is likely cars will remain for sale until near season end only to be readvertised next spring at a reduced level.
I don't think anyone is suggesting they should fall to their previous low point. Somewhere midway between that and the recent peak might be about where they settle. As I said before, any car in any market will sell if priced right (i.e. at a point a buyer is willing to pay).
highway said:
Where as a low miles car is likely in better shape with less wear to the interior and paint that isn’t micro blistered or peppered with stone chips. Low miles means get a premium for a reason.
.....
Happy eliseing all!
This is were I think the Elise differs from most cars. A car that's got low mileage because it's just used sporadically and stored has a good chance of being not as good as a higher mileage example. Some of these timewarp cars coming for sale still have original tyres, koni's shocks/dampers, tow post, radiator, mild steel fastenings. Microblisters are not caused by how much a car has been used. People like Allen White are in business because they retrim interiors better than they left the factory. .....
Happy eliseing all!
IMHO a higher mile car with the right preventative maintenance, known fixes is better than a low mile car specced as it left Hethel.
Agree on the happy eliseing. Put some miles and probably a few stone chips on mine last night
I’ve noticed how many new or pre reg cars are at dealers. 220 in the main. I quite fancy one. Prices spread out between £40 and £45 . Carbon Seats desperately expensive as are all the carbon bits. I also prefer just mats and no full carpet. Why would you hide the tub with cheap carpet?
emu002 said:
Just sold mine this morning
It has been hard to shift but got there in the end so don't give up, they are still selling just a bit slower than previous years
The hard part now is what the hell do I replace it with???
What type of thing are you looking for? It has been hard to shift but got there in the end so don't give up, they are still selling just a bit slower than previous years
The hard part now is what the hell do I replace it with???
If you want similar driving experience but faster and better built then I can thoroughly recommend the 987 Spyder.
Interesting thread
I'm looking to buy an Elise. Possibly an S1 (111S or Sport 160), or maybe a stretch to an S2 (Toyota engine either in 111S or 111R guise).
I owned a standard S1 back in 2003 and have an itch for another for road use with a handful of trackdays thrown in per year. I didn't like the standard K series unit though, it just didn't rev enough!
I currently have 986 Boxster S as a "fun" car, but i don't feel that it would make a good trackday car without some mods, which i'm reluctant to do (it's a nice one). It would also be very expensive to repair, though maybe i'm kidding myself that an elise would be a cheap fix!!
The odd Sport 160 comes up at around £14k-£15k with not too silly mileages. They seem fairly well priced assuming the mechanicals are alright.
My concern is that the S1 is getting on a bit now, so what would tracking one be like? And would that destroy the value?
OT, but I've always wanted a 111R but they really do seem to have firmed up recently. Gone are the days of a good one for £15k-£16k. They're more like £18k-£19k now.
I'm looking to buy an Elise. Possibly an S1 (111S or Sport 160), or maybe a stretch to an S2 (Toyota engine either in 111S or 111R guise).
I owned a standard S1 back in 2003 and have an itch for another for road use with a handful of trackdays thrown in per year. I didn't like the standard K series unit though, it just didn't rev enough!
I currently have 986 Boxster S as a "fun" car, but i don't feel that it would make a good trackday car without some mods, which i'm reluctant to do (it's a nice one). It would also be very expensive to repair, though maybe i'm kidding myself that an elise would be a cheap fix!!
The odd Sport 160 comes up at around £14k-£15k with not too silly mileages. They seem fairly well priced assuming the mechanicals are alright.
My concern is that the S1 is getting on a bit now, so what would tracking one be like? And would that destroy the value?
OT, but I've always wanted a 111R but they really do seem to have firmed up recently. Gone are the days of a good one for £15k-£16k. They're more like £18k-£19k now.
PTF said:
Interesting thread
I'm looking to buy an Elise. Possibly an S1 (111S or Sport 160), or maybe a stretch to an S2 (Toyota engine either in 111S or 111R guise).
I owned a standard S1 back in 2003 and have an itch for another for road use with a handful of trackdays thrown in per year. I didn't like the standard K series unit though, it just didn't rev enough!
I currently have 986 Boxster S as a "fun" car, but i don't feel that it would make a good trackday car without some mods, which i'm reluctant to do (it's a nice one). It would also be very expensive to repair, though maybe i'm kidding myself that an elise would be a cheap fix!!
The odd Sport 160 comes up at around £14k-£15k with not too silly mileages. They seem fairly well priced assuming the mechanicals are alright.
My concern is that the S1 is getting on a bit now, so what would tracking one be like? And would that destroy the value?
OT, but I've always wanted a 111R but they really do seem to have firmed up recently. Gone are the days of a good one for £15k-£16k. They're more like £18k-£19k now.
Not sure you will get a 160 under £20k, no matter what the miles. One went for over £30k last year.I'm looking to buy an Elise. Possibly an S1 (111S or Sport 160), or maybe a stretch to an S2 (Toyota engine either in 111S or 111R guise).
I owned a standard S1 back in 2003 and have an itch for another for road use with a handful of trackdays thrown in per year. I didn't like the standard K series unit though, it just didn't rev enough!
I currently have 986 Boxster S as a "fun" car, but i don't feel that it would make a good trackday car without some mods, which i'm reluctant to do (it's a nice one). It would also be very expensive to repair, though maybe i'm kidding myself that an elise would be a cheap fix!!
The odd Sport 160 comes up at around £14k-£15k with not too silly mileages. They seem fairly well priced assuming the mechanicals are alright.
My concern is that the S1 is getting on a bit now, so what would tracking one be like? And would that destroy the value?
OT, but I've always wanted a 111R but they really do seem to have firmed up recently. Gone are the days of a good one for £15k-£16k. They're more like £18k-£19k now.
PTF said:
Tickle said:
Not sure you will get a 160 under £20k, no matter what the miles. One went for over £30k last year.
There's one on ebay at a dealer for £14.5k with fairly sensible milesStevil said:
PTF said:
Tickle said:
Not sure you will get a 160 under £20k, no matter what the miles. One went for over £30k last year.
There's one on ebay at a dealer for £14.5k with fairly sensible milesPTF said:
Ok. I stand corrected. Thanks for the info
No problem, Sport 160s were available from 2000 onwards and have a few ways of telling them apart from a quick glance, notably the extra rear spoiler and the unique 5 spoke alloys, I'm sure there are others but those are the off the top of my head.Yes, the 111r has the revvy Toyota engine (the 111s has only ever had a Rover K VVC for both the S1 and S2 variants). The only real issue with the 111r going up in value is the extra cost to buy it, running costs will be the same and resale should see you get pretty much what you paid for it back.
Plenty run S1’s on track. They are getting on, but in the scheme of things so is a 111r now. Think of an Elise as triggers broom, if it’s been looked after the replaced parts that are prone to fail/corrode are usually better than OEM.
If you didn’t think the standard S1 or K Series cars revved enough, yes a 111r would be what you want. I don’t think a Toyota (non 111r) would be as revvy as a K series car though. The factory upgrade cars like the B&C 160 you mentioned would be good, they certainly rev with some peaky cams. Try a few, reacquaint yourself with an Elise.
Plenty run S1’s on track. They are getting on, but in the scheme of things so is a 111r now. Think of an Elise as triggers broom, if it’s been looked after the replaced parts that are prone to fail/corrode are usually better than OEM.
If you didn’t think the standard S1 or K Series cars revved enough, yes a 111r would be what you want. I don’t think a Toyota (non 111r) would be as revvy as a K series car though. The factory upgrade cars like the B&C 160 you mentioned would be good, they certainly rev with some peaky cams. Try a few, reacquaint yourself with an Elise.
emu002 said:
Just sold mine this morning
It has been hard to shift but got there in the end so don't give up, they are still selling just a bit slower than previous years
The hard part now is what the hell do I replace it with???
I think I posted that I sold mine a few weeks ago too.It has been hard to shift but got there in the end so don't give up, they are still selling just a bit slower than previous years
The hard part now is what the hell do I replace it with???
I'm replacing it with a Caterham Seven 310R...
The Crack Fox said:
I’ve seen that car, green one, in Leicester. I cannot work out what the hell it really is.
I also was a bit confused. Looks like an entirely standard S1 with the exception of the Sport 160 stickers. I thought the B&C upgraded cars have their own sticker design? Agreed you won't find a genuine S160 for less than £20k. Probably a bit more if you want an SVA one.
Stu-C123 said:
The Crack Fox said:
I’ve seen that car, green one, in Leicester. I cannot work out what the hell it really is.
I also was a bit confused. Looks like an entirely standard S1 with the exception of the Sport 160 stickers. I thought the B&C upgraded cars have their own sticker design? Agreed you won't find a genuine S160 for less than £20k. Probably a bit more if you want an SVA one.
I get that it's not a real Sport 160, but the engine upgrade looks to be similar. I'm guessing it doesn't have any of the other Sport 160 upgrades such as gearbox or suspension though. And it is green...
PTF said:
Looks to me like a way to get into an S1 elise with more power than the standard engine, without having to shell out another £4k for an S2 111S or R.
I get that it's not a real Sport 160, but the engine upgrade looks to be similar. I'm guessing it doesn't have any of the other Sport 160 upgrades such as gearbox or suspension though. And it is green...
I love the colour of the car on ebay, it may not be scandal green but it’s one of the better colours, especially for a Lotus!I get that it's not a real Sport 160, but the engine upgrade looks to be similar. I'm guessing it doesn't have any of the other Sport 160 upgrades such as gearbox or suspension though. And it is green...
Apart from the engine and associated breathing mods and oil cooler the S160 had:
Victory Wheels
Driving lights
Spoiler (on raised blocks)
Alcantara sports seats
Sports Suspension (Not many S1’s will have the original suspension, S2 Bilsteins, GAZ or Nitrons are popular replacements)
http://www.elises.co.uk/models/sport160/index.html
Gearbox was the same as regular S1 (111s and S135 had the short box as standard)
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