Elise prices. What's going on?

[limpsfield]

Puzzles said:

twinturban said:

Could there be a better contrast or antidote to a large SUV?

and yet demand for SUVs is sky high and sports cars must be near rock bottom?

I'd agree with Puzzles on this. I think these prices are only going one way and the cars are getting harder to sell. It took me a year to sell my Boxster, which was one of the cheapest for year and mileage. I have been watching Elises and they are not shifting. I bought an FType in June and there are loads still for sale that were up when I was looking.

As future classics, Elises make a lot of sense as time passes and whenever the next bubble starts there again. But the weekend fun car market seems the quietest I can remember for years, just based on regular autotrader browsing and stuff still being there.

The 2000s were a great time for sports cars but I bet there are fewer 25 year olds these days interested in a TVR/Lotus/Porsche from that era - or can insure them. And those of us who were around the first time around for these cars aren't getting any younger or more flexible!

It's a different proposition I think at the Porsche 911 new end of the market, but that clearly has slowed too over the past 18 months. I think that the sub-30k older sports car sector has borne the biggest brunt of a slow down so far.

[Frimley111R]

How many of these prices are getting back to what they should have been after a huge COVID boost? Or are they there now.

[Frimley111R]

Also, when you look at the sportscar heyday 15 odd years ago you have the relatively contemporary Elise/Exige (I said relatively!), TVRs, Boxsters, the SLK, some MR2's, Z4, TT, 350Z etc.

All stylish, not too pricey and all with low/lowish running costs. Today we've lost the Exige/Elise, TVR, MR2, SLK all without a replacement and the ones left are very pricey.

Hot hatches faded away thanks to ridiculous prices and running costs and it feels like sportscars are going the same way.

[PlywoodPascal]

maybe we are in a gap,

the MGB stopped in 1980 (?)
the MX5 launched in 1989.

don't think there was much affordable/similar for sale in between those dates? (or I am being forgetful?)

Maybe we are in a sportscar lull
Maybe Elises end up like MGBs?
(shudder)
(TVRs are already like them tbh)

[highway]

The Elise is the MGB for Gen X.

[PlywoodPascal]

don't say it highway it's too uncomfortable to be true.

[otolith]

highway said:

The Elise is the MGB for Gen X.

Except that the MGB was in production for 18 years and resulted in half a million cars, and the Elise was in production for 25 years but only built 35,000!

[twinturban]

The point I was trying to make was that an Elise is a better complement and contrast to have alongside a family SUV than an M4 or M5. I currently have both and the Elise’s many virtues are clearer than ever after getting out of an SUV. For those that are willing and able to get in and out of one of course.

A car that is also engaging and exciting to drive within the legal speed limit should have increasing appeal in the coming years. The opportunities to drive fast in the UK and France have decreased dramatically in the last 20 years which has directly diminished the appeal of owning something like a McLaren for me.

Edited by twinturban on Monday 2nd December 21:16

[John D.]

twinturban said:

The point I was making was that an Elise is a better complement and contrast to have alongside a family SUV than an M4 or M5. I currently have both and the Elises virtues are clearer than ever after getting out of an SUV. For those that are willing and able to get in and out of an Elise of course.

That was fairly obvious. As opposed to SUVs being more popular than Elise (no st).

[Frimley111R]

otolith said:

highway said:

The Elise is the MGB for Gen X.

Except that the MGB was in production for 18 years and resulted in half a million cars, and the Elise was in production for 25 years but only built 35,000!

Wow! You can see why the MG became so iconic.

[GTRene]

Frimley111R said:

otolith said:

highway said:

The Elise is the MGB for Gen X.

Except that the MGB was in production for 18 years and resulted in half a million cars, and the Elise was in production for 25 years but only built 35,000!

Wow! You can see why the MG became so iconic.

Only since last week I've learned via a MG story, that MG stands for a Garage, a Morris Garage

I believe I never knew that.

[T_S_M]

What do people think will happen to the values of late Elises? Are they likely to hold their value due to them being "the last ones"?

(Crystal ball stuff I know).

[PlywoodPascal]

They will go up or maybe down, or they could stay about the same. I am pretty confident about this. Something something spring price boost. Look at what’s happening with the emira.

This conclusion is drawn from my advanced modelling of the market, accounting for people’s ages, preferences, savings/borrowing rates, average retirement age, driving habits and trends, and the proportion of people who consider owning a sports car equivalent to wearing a chest wig and horrible gold medallion.

[PlywoodPascal]

The s1 is the purists choice
The s2 is the ugly duckling (the k series ones even more so, even than the early k series s2s (not 111s) are probably the best to drive of all the Elises)
The s3 is the best car (probably)

I think s1s and s3s outperform s2s and s3s will probably be more popular than s1s.

[Frimley111R]

T_S_M said:

What do people think will happen to the values of late Elises? Are they likely to hold their value due to them being "the last ones"?

(Crystal ball stuff I know).

IMO they will go the way of the earlier models unless you have a limited run model with tiny mileage.

I had a quick look at some online and the cheapest S1 was £13/14k with 145k miles on it. It's hardly surprising no-one is buying them. That should be a £5-6k car but the COVID push has made the prices quite silly.

[Lefty]

Whilst in most objective ways the s2 and s3’s are definitely better cars I think the value will be in the s1’s as the simplest, purest expression of what the Elise was meant to be.

I think a nice, genuine, near-standard low mileage s1 in a safe colour will be a proper future classic and a safe place for the £25k it will cost buy one now.

[Puzzles]

Hopefully not too off topic.. The feedback is older Elises are a harder sell. What does that mean for the S1 Exige, 340r etc? They must be near impossible?

[Frimley111R]

Puzzles said:

Hopefully not too off topic.. The feedback is older Elises are a harder sell. What does that mean for the S1 Exige, 340r etc? They must be near impossible?

They have rarity and image on their style to a much greater degree. The Elise is the 'mainstream' version of both.

[fridaypassion]

The S1 Exige has just started gaining true classic collector interest in the last 4/5 years prior to that they were actually quite hard to sell (unless it had a Honda engine) Today you do stand a chance of selling partly because there are just so few around there will always be someone hopefully out there looking. Still strong interest from Japan which is where all the nice ones go.

It has been covered in the thread before but the older cars are just in a pricepoint where nobody is buying any more. Circa 20k there just is no market any more. Some of the cars I have had to say no to over the last 6 months I can't believe but if we take an S1 or K series S2 it will just take ages to sell. Cost of living...nobody has any money any more. I cannot believe the change in the 15 years I have been in the business selling a 111R or a K series S2 was like shelling peas it was just sourcing that was a bit of an issue as we couldn't get stock in quick enough. At 50k plus the market is still just about there.

Will this 20k sector of the market pick up? Anyone's guess really but the UK is in a crap state economically and that's going to take years to get better there's nothing on the horizon that's going to give us that kick start. It's difficult to see where any renaissance is going to come from. A building of interest could have started around the ICE ban but yet more uncertainty over that dents confidence. As of today if you buy an older car we could either not be allowed to drive them or be priced off the road in the next decade or we could buy them and have use of them for 50 years we just have no idea what's going on.

We could really do with better more clear leadership not just for us dabbling in older cars but for the wider car industry which is in a state of complete turmoil at the moment all because of uncertainty.

Unfortunately Starmer doesnt seem to be like he's going to be the guy to ever give strong and clear directions to anyone.

[bennno]

fridaypassion said:

The S1 Exige has just started gaining true classic collector interest in the last 4/5 years prior to that they were actually quite hard to sell (unless it had a Honda engine) Today you do stand a chance of selling partly because there are just so few around there will always be someone hopefully out there looking. Still strong interest from Japan which is where all the nice ones go.

It has been covered in the thread before but the older cars are just in a pricepoint where nobody is buying any more. Circa 20k there just is no market any more. Some of the cars I have had to say no to over the last 6 months I can't believe but if we take an S1 or K series S2 it will just take ages to sell. Cost of living...nobody has any money any more. I cannot believe the change in the 15 years I have been in the business selling a 111R or a K series S2 was like shelling peas it was just sourcing that was a bit of an issue as we couldn't get stock in quick enough. At 50k plus the market is still just about there.

Will this 20k sector of the market pick up? Anyone's guess really but the UK is in a crap state economically and that's going to take years to get better there's nothing on the horizon that's going to give us that kick start. It's difficult to see where any renaissance is going to come from. A building of interest could have started around the ICE ban but yet more uncertainty over that dents confidence. As of today if you buy an older car we could either not be allowed to drive them or be priced off the road in the next decade or we could buy them and have use of them for 50 years we just have no idea what's going on.

We could really do with better more clear leadership not just for us dabbling in older cars but for the wider car industry which is in a state of complete turmoil at the moment all because of uncertainty.

Unfortunately Starmer doesnt seem to be like he's going to be the guy to ever give strong and clear directions to anyone.

I think you are over egging this, seem to be missing the point that as you put it in the last 15 years a S1 or K series S2 have gone from being a few years old sportscast with potential for daily driving and finance, to effectively becoming 20-25 year old classics.