TVR not supplying engine parts.
Discussion
Ok Guys. Tongue in cheek here. I have obviously touched a raw nerve. With my inability to type succinctly I have over simplified the demographic, phsycological, and sociological profile of the clan that make up TVR owners.
I have not in no way, never in any of my posts in this forum stated who is what or stated on which side of the fence I or any others sit.
I am stating fact however when I say that TVR's are owned by Enthusiasts and "non specific other types" how's that?
Enthusiasts are the ones that Live for the cars, put up with the foibles and shortcomings, build them, drive them, repair them and skin their knuckles generally during ownership. oh and budget for fixing them at the certain point at which they break.
The others, IE the non specific owners previously mentioned buy them for the image. most of these owners then in a short period of time realise what the cars are and buy something else. hence the vast amount of TVR's which are usually for sale on here and in Auto trader. (compared to numbers built)
My point previously was that TVR used to be firstly and foremost an enthusiasts car. I don't think it is going to stay that way for long under the new ownership. the marketing slant for these cars has already changed as have the costs.
The sagaris is a great car, let down by only 1 thing. its 20K price hike over the T350. Enthusiasts are not an important factor in TVR anymore.
Less factory visits, No factory servicing, No motorsport team. etc etc. Do you get my point or am i misguided in my opinions. After all thats all they are? Certainly I am not so opinionated to offend surely??
Neil.
I have not in no way, never in any of my posts in this forum stated who is what or stated on which side of the fence I or any others sit.
I am stating fact however when I say that TVR's are owned by Enthusiasts and "non specific other types" how's that?
Enthusiasts are the ones that Live for the cars, put up with the foibles and shortcomings, build them, drive them, repair them and skin their knuckles generally during ownership. oh and budget for fixing them at the certain point at which they break.
The others, IE the non specific owners previously mentioned buy them for the image. most of these owners then in a short period of time realise what the cars are and buy something else. hence the vast amount of TVR's which are usually for sale on here and in Auto trader. (compared to numbers built)
My point previously was that TVR used to be firstly and foremost an enthusiasts car. I don't think it is going to stay that way for long under the new ownership. the marketing slant for these cars has already changed as have the costs.
The sagaris is a great car, let down by only 1 thing. its 20K price hike over the T350. Enthusiasts are not an important factor in TVR anymore.
Less factory visits, No factory servicing, No motorsport team. etc etc. Do you get my point or am i misguided in my opinions. After all thats all they are? Certainly I am not so opinionated to offend surely??
Neil.
That I can agree with! No tongue in cheek 
Seriously though, I can understand what you mean if the definition of an enthusiast who is someone who is able to fix or repair their TVR themselves.
I would call myself an enthusiast, and whilst I use these forums to fix minor niggles, that is the limit of my knowledge!
I agree with your sentiments though. I suppose the business plan of the new owner is to make more profit. It seems he is doing this through going closer to mass production to a mass market. Though I dont think they will get close to either!
Seriously though, I can understand what you mean if the definition of an enthusiast who is someone who is able to fix or repair their TVR themselves.
I would call myself an enthusiast, and whilst I use these forums to fix minor niggles, that is the limit of my knowledge!
I agree with your sentiments though. I suppose the business plan of the new owner is to make more profit. It seems he is doing this through going closer to mass production to a mass market. Though I dont think they will get close to either!
My point exactly Justin.
As an enthusiast car for hard core driving pleasure nothing beats TVR as a package.
as a mass market does everything, appeals to everyone satisfies all desires etc etc it is hopeless and doomed to failure.
look at a 60's vixen chassis and look at a 1998 griffith chassis. they are axactly the same. "only the geometry has changed to protect the hapless". The bodies are a bit sexier there is a bit more leather but the package is unchanged.
Oh and enthusiasts don't have to be mechanical. the enthusiasts are those that drive and love the cars for all their faults. they are the ones that will always stick by the marque with loyalty.
They are the ones that care enough to shout when the MD steers off course.
The mass market in my opinion is always the downfall of a brand. Too fickle by half.
Neil.
As an enthusiast car for hard core driving pleasure nothing beats TVR as a package.
as a mass market does everything, appeals to everyone satisfies all desires etc etc it is hopeless and doomed to failure.
look at a 60's vixen chassis and look at a 1998 griffith chassis. they are axactly the same. "only the geometry has changed to protect the hapless". The bodies are a bit sexier there is a bit more leather but the package is unchanged.
Oh and enthusiasts don't have to be mechanical. the enthusiasts are those that drive and love the cars for all their faults. they are the ones that will always stick by the marque with loyalty.
They are the ones that care enough to shout when the MD steers off course.
The mass market in my opinion is always the downfall of a brand. Too fickle by half.
Neil.
Hey i'm an enthusiast, BUT i like to drive then NOT fix them...
AS this type of enthusaist, it is reallly annoying to see them in the garage being , fixed, or continually worrying about whether the engine is going to let go, and disapear for a couple of months. That means you stop enjoying the car and might as well sell it for something reliable....
It is a only CAR after all.
ie inthe last 10 years the griff is the only car I hAve had that I allways got to where I'm going, or got home ok... NOT that it has been perfect, but mechanically robust, bar the odd fuse.
cf peugeot, colis going (twice) stranded, ecu on citroen, golf part unobtainable, etc,etc
B
>> Edited by bjwoods on Tuesday 9th August 12:49
AS this type of enthusaist, it is reallly annoying to see them in the garage being , fixed, or continually worrying about whether the engine is going to let go, and disapear for a couple of months. That means you stop enjoying the car and might as well sell it for something reliable....
It is a only CAR after all.
ie inthe last 10 years the griff is the only car I hAve had that I allways got to where I'm going, or got home ok... NOT that it has been perfect, but mechanically robust, bar the odd fuse.
cf peugeot, colis going (twice) stranded, ecu on citroen, golf part unobtainable, etc,etc
B
>> Edited by bjwoods on Tuesday 9th August 12:49
TVR refused to supply engine spares to the independent specialist who are rebuilding my engine. I tried to buy the required spares as an owner, to be told by the spare parts dept at the factory that they only supply these parts in house, and would not sell them to me or my independent repairer. The chap also helpfully told me that they would not give me any technical specs (torque settings etc), so the spares would be of little use....
I spoke to the OFT about this. Here is an extract from their email (let me know if you want contract details for the people at the OFT I was dealing with) :
"There is a general presumption that garages should be able to get hold of spares parts from manufacturers under European Regulations. I attach a link to a document ... the page which will be of interest to your garage is Page 78.
http://europa.eu.int/comm/competition/car_sector/explanatory_brochure_en.pdf
The general presumption only applies to business and not to members of the public so it would be best for the garage to speak/write to TVR on this issue and it may be useful to refer to this regulation. If the garage are still unable to obtain the parts then I would suggest that they can complain to the Office of Fair Trading. However on speaking to them the Anti Competitive Practices normally only refers to business with a certain market share or a certain level of turn over so they may not fall under the scope of this."
As things worked out, we decided that it would be quicker (and probably cheaper) to manufacture the required components (we didn't need much, as most is being modified) rather than get legal or ask the OFT to investigate, so the problem disappeared - for me.
Hope this helps a little - please let us know how you get on.
Cheers
Ian
I spoke to the OFT about this. Here is an extract from their email (let me know if you want contract details for the people at the OFT I was dealing with) :
"There is a general presumption that garages should be able to get hold of spares parts from manufacturers under European Regulations. I attach a link to a document ... the page which will be of interest to your garage is Page 78.
http://europa.eu.int/comm/competition/car_sector/explanatory_brochure_en.pdf
The general presumption only applies to business and not to members of the public so it would be best for the garage to speak/write to TVR on this issue and it may be useful to refer to this regulation. If the garage are still unable to obtain the parts then I would suggest that they can complain to the Office of Fair Trading. However on speaking to them the Anti Competitive Practices normally only refers to business with a certain market share or a certain level of turn over so they may not fall under the scope of this."
As things worked out, we decided that it would be quicker (and probably cheaper) to manufacture the required components (we didn't need much, as most is being modified) rather than get legal or ask the OFT to investigate, so the problem disappeared - for me.
Hope this helps a little - please let us know how you get on.
Cheers
Ian
Well that certainly caused a few harsh words 
I have now managed to get the parts that will complete the job 
To finish off this thread I'd just like to say that I buy TVR's for the thrill, individuality, and acceptance that you get from the normal Joe Bloggs. What I don't buy them for is for huge cost. In the last 3 years I have spent in the region of £18000 on runnning the things. Its always the same scenario. Car breaks down, costs a fortune to repair, even though some of the parts are standard Ford or Vauxhall, swear that you've had enough, swear some more, Say you will put it up for sale, turn up at the garage, drive it away and realise your stuck for life.
It's an addiction there is no cure for. If you don't get out straight away, you had better start saving for the journey.
PS. I don't wear overalls, have highlights, or have oil under my fingernails. I'm one of the many that just love the madness that TVR bestowes on you!!
Keep up the great work TVR, but please think about that strange animal that sticks with you, and show some sympathy when things go wrong, no matter how we treat that big lump of plastic
I have now managed to get the parts that will complete the job To finish off this thread I'd just like to say that I buy TVR's for the thrill, individuality, and acceptance that you get from the normal Joe Bloggs. What I don't buy them for is for huge cost. In the last 3 years I have spent in the region of £18000 on runnning the things. Its always the same scenario. Car breaks down, costs a fortune to repair, even though some of the parts are standard Ford or Vauxhall, swear that you've had enough, swear some more, Say you will put it up for sale, turn up at the garage, drive it away and realise your stuck for life.
It's an addiction there is no cure for. If you don't get out straight away, you had better start saving for the journey. PS. I don't wear overalls, have highlights, or have oil under my fingernails. I'm one of the many that just love the madness that TVR bestowes on you!!
Keep up the great work TVR, but please think about that strange animal that sticks with you, and show some sympathy when things go wrong, no matter how we treat that big lump of plastic
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