Overtaking on 'Biker roads' ?
Discussion
I was driving back from pickering after going camping and was in a two car convoy with another friend heading back toward Hull.
These roads are full of bikers on a good day, but most of them are patient with people driving low powered vauxhalls
Any who, I was following my friend who was making some awful overtakes (blind bends approaching/traffic coming ahead) one of which the truck he overtook had to brake to allow him past before a bend, needless to say, i was was quite worried for a few seconds!
So the truck turned off 2 miles up the road only to reveal a caravan.
MY QUESTION
I came across a straight piece of road with no visible junctions and a downhill corner a mile away, I started to overtake and was half way past when a bike going waaay over the speed limit came around the distant (not so by now) corner so at this point it was too late to abort the overtake (how do i know there is still a gap behind the caravan? ) so I carried on going (low powered astra) and so did he. Just as i pulled back infront he shot past.
It got me thinking wether I was in the wrong and should have just stayed behind the caravan.
Sooo, what should I have done, and was I the stupid one, or are bikers just driving too fast on congested roads?
These roads are full of bikers on a good day, but most of them are patient with people driving low powered vauxhalls
Any who, I was following my friend who was making some awful overtakes (blind bends approaching/traffic coming ahead) one of which the truck he overtook had to brake to allow him past before a bend, needless to say, i was was quite worried for a few seconds!
So the truck turned off 2 miles up the road only to reveal a caravan.
MY QUESTION
I came across a straight piece of road with no visible junctions and a downhill corner a mile away, I started to overtake and was half way past when a bike going waaay over the speed limit came around the distant (not so by now) corner so at this point it was too late to abort the overtake (how do i know there is still a gap behind the caravan? ) so I carried on going (low powered astra) and so did he. Just as i pulled back infront he shot past.
It got me thinking wether I was in the wrong and should have just stayed behind the caravan.
Sooo, what should I have done, and was I the stupid one, or are bikers just driving too fast on congested roads?
Been covered before but with a high powered car
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=15...
I'd say that whoever is on the wrong side of the road needs to take responsibility more, particularly if you know you're on a bikers road and in a car unsuitable for overtaking.
Also I'd have a word with your mate about his driving(!)
www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=15...
I'd say that whoever is on the wrong side of the road needs to take responsibility more, particularly if you know you're on a bikers road and in a car unsuitable for overtaking.
Also I'd have a word with your mate about his driving(!)
Edited by BusaMK on Wednesday 19th September 11:11
I guess when you started the overtake you had looked ahead and made sure it was clear to go. If things change in the middle of the overtake and you can't safely abort I guess all you can do is carry on and finish. Yes, you were on the biker's side of the road but he really should have looked ahead and slowed down. Yes, he'll be peeved at losing his momentum and no, it's not really his fault. In the interests of safety though, there isn't much to say about it.
You could over analyse the hell out of the situation. Ultimately though, you would hope that the biking population would have the common sense to anticipate this sort of thing. It's not like they'll struggle to get back to to 60mph and beyond if they have to scrub a bit of speed off to avoid going head on with you.
You could over analyse the hell out of the situation. Ultimately though, you would hope that the biking population would have the common sense to anticipate this sort of thing. It's not like they'll struggle to get back to to 60mph and beyond if they have to scrub a bit of speed off to avoid going head on with you.
I'd always make allowances when planning the overtake for someone not yet seen around the corner approaching going faster than the speed limit. That way you won't get caught out when it inevitably happens. You should really plan for an abort too - what would happen if you can't complete the overtake, what's your backup plan? Where would you slot back into traffic on your side of the road?
Your mate in the other car sounds like an utter tool by the way.
Your mate in the other car sounds like an utter tool by the way.
I am amazed you saw patient bikers on that road, it's quite a rarity; generally the Dales are full of nutters (like your friend) on bikes and hence the high death rate.
You should have slowed down and pulled back in, that road really isn't that long although I know how annoying it is to sit behind the numptie brigade sadly it goes with the territory.
You should have slowed down and pulled back in, that road really isn't that long although I know how annoying it is to sit behind the numptie brigade sadly it goes with the territory.
What we car drivers regard as a biker these days, (and I am a motorcyclist myself), are an absolute nightmare.
They are usually fair weather weekend chaps, like myself, but because bikes are cheap compared to performance cars, they seem to have bought sports bikes, and hunt in packs.
Like a lot of cyclists, they fail to recognise their own vunerability, and seem to drop into "I have priority , just because in my own mind I do" mode.
Th motorcyclists are jolly fast, they can quite literally appear from nowhere sort of thing, they will overtake cars already doing an overtake, they will overtake cars coming up to commencing an overtake, hell I've even been undertaken by them on bends, whilst riding a bike two up.
I'm not sure how we've gotten to this position where people can behave like lemmings and blame everyone around them when they come to grief.
You even get the same sort of mentality when they are lane splitting or so called filtering.
I've no idea what the answer is, you'd hope common sense, but sadly if you're driving, you seem to be lumped with all of the responsibility if they come to grief.
Just my feelings anyway ........ everything seems to be about their progress, cyclists and motorcyclists.
At least some of us have experience of motorcycling, so some idea of what they may do next, non motorcycling car drivers must find the badly behaved two wheelers even more of a nightmare.
I don't believe it'll ever happen, but I'd like the performance of their bikes severley limited ....... lets see them ride then !
They are usually fair weather weekend chaps, like myself, but because bikes are cheap compared to performance cars, they seem to have bought sports bikes, and hunt in packs.
Like a lot of cyclists, they fail to recognise their own vunerability, and seem to drop into "I have priority , just because in my own mind I do" mode.
Th motorcyclists are jolly fast, they can quite literally appear from nowhere sort of thing, they will overtake cars already doing an overtake, they will overtake cars coming up to commencing an overtake, hell I've even been undertaken by them on bends, whilst riding a bike two up.
I'm not sure how we've gotten to this position where people can behave like lemmings and blame everyone around them when they come to grief.
You even get the same sort of mentality when they are lane splitting or so called filtering.
I've no idea what the answer is, you'd hope common sense, but sadly if you're driving, you seem to be lumped with all of the responsibility if they come to grief.
Just my feelings anyway ........ everything seems to be about their progress, cyclists and motorcyclists.
At least some of us have experience of motorcycling, so some idea of what they may do next, non motorcycling car drivers must find the badly behaved two wheelers even more of a nightmare.
I don't believe it'll ever happen, but I'd like the performance of their bikes severley limited ....... lets see them ride then !
My observation is that there's a class of bikers who are incredibly aware, cautious and make very good progress considerately and courteously. Everyone feels good about helping them get through the traffic. If only I could get on my way like that, the car driver might think. Off you go, fellah, have a good evening.
And then there's the other sort. Often couriers, around here.
And then there's the other sort. Often couriers, around here.
I'd say you've done nothing wrong - you could see, it was clear etc. Bike should've given himself enough space to stop anyway. I'm a biker, and i've found myself in both positions you refer to - and i've felt guilty for putting the oncoming car in that spot down to me going waaaay too quick, i wouldn't worry - it happens.
SVS said:
OllieM3 said:
My view is that its going to hurt him (the biker) a lot more than its going to hurt you.... so keep going! He'll soon get out your way....
If you think a head-on with a motorbike isn't going to hurt ... that's a helluva lot of kinetic energy hitting the car ... Bike+rider will weigh well over 300kg. You think 300kg hitting you at a combined 120mph won't hurt?
I sometimes wonder that the authorities should do away with all the 'Think Bike' signs and stickers, and replace them with 'Bikers! - Think' instead. I like to think I'm very aware of ALL road users, and do try to 'think bike', especially when I'm near their 'hooning' grounds.
The trouble is, there are lots of Muppets amongst their ranks, and they often ride in ways that do them no favours amongst the rest of us mere mortals.
Worst one recently was one of the 'alternate overtaking lane' sections of the A303/A30, where there are two lanes one way, one the opposite way, with a solid white line separating opposing traffic streams. I went through the whole drill to prepare for an overtake as we approach a double lane section, all good, move out, increase speed to pass a couple of HGVs.
A couple of other cars also move out to pass the trucks, then, out of the blue, and at a velocity of many leptons, a big sports bike looms large in my offside mirror, and rockets past on the wrong side of the solid line, in direct conflict with oncoming traffic. (It was Easter weekend, there was LOTS of traffic). To make matters worse, the bike was two-up, and neither of them was wearing leathers. Bonkers, if you ask me.
Though not as bonkers as being 'tailgated' by other car drivers for not doing 70 on the 'dual carriageway' sections. That'll be because it's STILL SINGLE CARRIAGEWAY you tits. And that means 60mph. And I'll be sticking to the limit on that stretch because catching dumb asses like you, who can't correctly recognise the road layout, is a favourite game for Plod in that area, it's like shooting fish in a barrel. I'm not TrafPol, and you can do what you like when I'm back in the nearside lane, but I've every right to commit to a safe overtake, whilst sticking, within reason, to the posted speed limit. Show a little patience, and back the f
k off, dudes.
The trouble is, there are lots of Muppets amongst their ranks, and they often ride in ways that do them no favours amongst the rest of us mere mortals.
Worst one recently was one of the 'alternate overtaking lane' sections of the A303/A30, where there are two lanes one way, one the opposite way, with a solid white line separating opposing traffic streams. I went through the whole drill to prepare for an overtake as we approach a double lane section, all good, move out, increase speed to pass a couple of HGVs.
A couple of other cars also move out to pass the trucks, then, out of the blue, and at a velocity of many leptons, a big sports bike looms large in my offside mirror, and rockets past on the wrong side of the solid line, in direct conflict with oncoming traffic. (It was Easter weekend, there was LOTS of traffic). To make matters worse, the bike was two-up, and neither of them was wearing leathers. Bonkers, if you ask me.
Though not as bonkers as being 'tailgated' by other car drivers for not doing 70 on the 'dual carriageway' sections. That'll be because it's STILL SINGLE CARRIAGEWAY you tits. And that means 60mph. And I'll be sticking to the limit on that stretch because catching dumb asses like you, who can't correctly recognise the road layout, is a favourite game for Plod in that area, it's like shooting fish in a barrel. I'm not TrafPol, and you can do what you like when I'm back in the nearside lane, but I've every right to commit to a safe overtake, whilst sticking, within reason, to the posted speed limit. Show a little patience, and back the f
k off, dudes.OllieM3 said:
My view is that its going to hurt him (the biker) a lot more than its going to hurt you.... so keep going! He'll soon get out your way....
That would hurt us both equally, a small and very dense bike hitting a large and not so dense car is going to end in annihilation of us both!Nigel Worc's said:
What we car drivers regard as a biker these days, (and I am a motorcyclist myself), are an absolute nightmare.
They are usually fair weather weekend chaps, like myself, but because bikes are cheap compared to performance cars, they seem to have bought sports bikes, and hunt in packs.
Like a lot of cyclists, they fail to recognise their own vunerability, and seem to drop into "I have priority , just because in my own mind I do" mode.
Th motorcyclists are jolly fast, they can quite literally appear from nowhere sort of thing, they will overtake cars already doing an overtake, they will overtake cars coming up to commencing an overtake, hell I've even been undertaken by them on bends, whilst riding a bike two up.
I'm not sure how we've gotten to this position where people can behave like lemmings and blame everyone around them when they come to grief.
You even get the same sort of mentality when they are lane splitting or so called filtering.
I've no idea what the answer is, you'd hope common sense, but sadly if you're driving, you seem to be lumped with all of the responsibility if they come to grief.
Just my feelings anyway ........ everything seems to be about their progress, cyclists and motorcyclists.
At least some of us have experience of motorcycling, so some idea of what they may do next, non motorcycling car drivers must find the badly behaved two wheelers even more of a nightmare.
I don't believe it'll ever happen, but I'd like the performance of their bikes severley limited ....... lets see them ride then !
I'd agree with that.They are usually fair weather weekend chaps, like myself, but because bikes are cheap compared to performance cars, they seem to have bought sports bikes, and hunt in packs.
Like a lot of cyclists, they fail to recognise their own vunerability, and seem to drop into "I have priority , just because in my own mind I do" mode.
Th motorcyclists are jolly fast, they can quite literally appear from nowhere sort of thing, they will overtake cars already doing an overtake, they will overtake cars coming up to commencing an overtake, hell I've even been undertaken by them on bends, whilst riding a bike two up.
I'm not sure how we've gotten to this position where people can behave like lemmings and blame everyone around them when they come to grief.
You even get the same sort of mentality when they are lane splitting or so called filtering.
I've no idea what the answer is, you'd hope common sense, but sadly if you're driving, you seem to be lumped with all of the responsibility if they come to grief.
Just my feelings anyway ........ everything seems to be about their progress, cyclists and motorcyclists.
At least some of us have experience of motorcycling, so some idea of what they may do next, non motorcycling car drivers must find the badly behaved two wheelers even more of a nightmare.
I don't believe it'll ever happen, but I'd like the performance of their bikes severley limited ....... lets see them ride then !
Hooli said:
Nigel Worc's said:
What we car drivers regard as a biker these days, (and I am a motorcyclist myself), are an absolute nightmare.
They are usually fair weather weekend chaps, like myself, but because bikes are cheap compared to performance cars, they seem to have bought sports bikes, and hunt in packs.
Like a lot of cyclists, they fail to recognise their own vunerability, and seem to drop into "I have priority , just because in my own mind I do" mode.
Th motorcyclists are jolly fast, they can quite literally appear from nowhere sort of thing, they will overtake cars already doing an overtake, they will overtake cars coming up to commencing an overtake, hell I've even been undertaken by them on bends, whilst riding a bike two up.
I'm not sure how we've gotten to this position where people can behave like lemmings and blame everyone around them when they come to grief.
You even get the same sort of mentality when they are lane splitting or so called filtering.
I've no idea what the answer is, you'd hope common sense, but sadly if you're driving, you seem to be lumped with all of the responsibility if they come to grief.
Just my feelings anyway ........ everything seems to be about their progress, cyclists and motorcyclists.
At least some of us have experience of motorcycling, so some idea of what they may do next, non motorcycling car drivers must find the badly behaved two wheelers even more of a nightmare.
I don't believe it'll ever happen, but I'd like the performance of their bikes severley limited ....... lets see them ride then !
I'd agree with that.They are usually fair weather weekend chaps, like myself, but because bikes are cheap compared to performance cars, they seem to have bought sports bikes, and hunt in packs.
Like a lot of cyclists, they fail to recognise their own vunerability, and seem to drop into "I have priority , just because in my own mind I do" mode.
Th motorcyclists are jolly fast, they can quite literally appear from nowhere sort of thing, they will overtake cars already doing an overtake, they will overtake cars coming up to commencing an overtake, hell I've even been undertaken by them on bends, whilst riding a bike two up.
I'm not sure how we've gotten to this position where people can behave like lemmings and blame everyone around them when they come to grief.
You even get the same sort of mentality when they are lane splitting or so called filtering.
I've no idea what the answer is, you'd hope common sense, but sadly if you're driving, you seem to be lumped with all of the responsibility if they come to grief.
Just my feelings anyway ........ everything seems to be about their progress, cyclists and motorcyclists.
At least some of us have experience of motorcycling, so some idea of what they may do next, non motorcycling car drivers must find the badly behaved two wheelers even more of a nightmare.
I don't believe it'll ever happen, but I'd like the performance of their bikes severley limited ....... lets see them ride then !
The problem is that bikes (and to a lesser extent the pedalled variety) present the capability of doing a lot of things which are probably ill advised. Cars less so simply because they need more room. I think the main thing bikers miss is that they can appear 'from nowhere' from a car perspective - you do have much better vision on a bike.
There are people in all walks of life that lack judgement, and the human animal is intrinsically very bad a judging risk - What scares us the first time does so less the second, and by the time we've done it 20 times, it's no longer 'risky', no matter what the actuality.
Motorbike education - the much lamented new test etc - is actually pretty good in my experience (biker of 2 years). There's a decent amount of attention to roadcraft and suchlike. Lane splitting can be done perfectly safely, and legally. It can also be done aggressively and dangerously. I could write quite a lot on it - but you've identified the key point - it's not just about what you can do, it's about giving other people the time and opportunity to see you, e.g. not filtering at daft speeds.
I also think there's a demographic thing at play where if you like, the 'cost of entry' in terms of comfort, convenience, risk and so on will concentrate the more risk-taking types towards bikes; I certainly find myself shaking my head at bikes more often than cars.
That said, if you're 'preparing' for an overtake and the person behind is more awake, too bad! I'd also suggest that limiting power is a futile path - you've already sunk that argument by lumping in cyclists; not the most overpowered bunch in the world are they
Equally every motorcyclist I've ever met thinks that cars can, and do flatten them at will, mouth the inevitable 'SMIDSY', and get off scott free..
Lastly, I'd note that we have no proof the oncoming bike *was* really doing unfeasibly large numbers of leptons. Easy enough to feel like that when they're coming at you, and you're mid-overtake, but there's no way of objectively measuring it is there? Could equally have been doing the speed limit. Or been a car, or whatever..
Hooli said:
As a biker of six years (is this where we play one upmanship?) You've made good points there too. Generally the average driver & rider is stupid, not paying attention & doesn't know what they should be doing anyway.
Not at all You've made good points there too. Generally the average driver & rider is stupid, not paying attention & doesn't know what they should be doing anyway.Main reason I mentioned 2 years was having done the test relatively recently; I was actually really impressed with the teaching and test standards, both in terms of failing my compatriot (who was a liability), and in terms of trying to get me to be a thinking road user
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