Speeding - Can rules be applied?
Discussion
TartanPaint said:
What about them? Unmarked is not the same as invisible.
In many cases near as makes no difference. You'd have to be pretty eagle eyed to spot some of them. I like to think I'm pretty good at spotting them having had a fair few parked on the drive when my dad was a base inspector and knowing the little things to look for but they can be quite subtle.If you're driving quickly, any vehicle in your mirrors that's keeping pace with you is a potential copper so it always pays to slow down and have a look.
I was coming home from the Edinburgh Tattoo on the A94 Coupar Angus road the other week. About 1am. Was nipping on a bit when I noticed, a long way behind, a pair of headlights keeping up. Slowed down a touch and noticed they were catching quite quickly. Dropped right to the speed limit and they followed closely until the next village where the blue lights came on.
Their first words were, "Have you been drinking?" and when I replied in the negative the next question was "Well you look like you've been drinking." They said I'd been going a bit quick although I pointed out I had slowed down to check if they were police or not. They also said they were pleased I was doing 30 in the 30 limits. Blew a zero on the breath test and I was on my way after an amicable chat. I told them I was only on the A94 to avoid the new average speed cameras on the A90 - which got a laugh.
I was coming home from the Edinburgh Tattoo on the A94 Coupar Angus road the other week. About 1am. Was nipping on a bit when I noticed, a long way behind, a pair of headlights keeping up. Slowed down a touch and noticed they were catching quite quickly. Dropped right to the speed limit and they followed closely until the next village where the blue lights came on.
Their first words were, "Have you been drinking?" and when I replied in the negative the next question was "Well you look like you've been drinking." They said I'd been going a bit quick although I pointed out I had slowed down to check if they were police or not. They also said they were pleased I was doing 30 in the 30 limits. Blew a zero on the breath test and I was on my way after an amicable chat. I told them I was only on the A94 to avoid the new average speed cameras on the A90 - which got a laugh.
An uncanny copy of the last time I got pulled (years ago).
Same journey, same road, same time of day, pulled over in Burrelton. I wasn't pulled for drinking but for the obvious progress I was making as they approached from a side road (but well back from the junction, so I didn't slow and only saw the headlights).
By the time they caught me they were flying, so obviously I backed the hell off to let them past ( I actually assumed boy racer, not Police). By the time they could have done anything, I wasn't doing anything that would stand out to either a chav looking for a race, or a police car looking for a pull.
Same journey, same road, same time of day, pulled over in Burrelton. I wasn't pulled for drinking but for the obvious progress I was making as they approached from a side road (but well back from the junction, so I didn't slow and only saw the headlights).
By the time they caught me they were flying, so obviously I backed the hell off to let them past ( I actually assumed boy racer, not Police). By the time they could have done anything, I wasn't doing anything that would stand out to either a chav looking for a race, or a police car looking for a pull.
Edited by TartanPaint on Monday 11th September 16:19
WinstonWolf said:
When I did my advanced motorcycling *ahem* years ago we were taught by police riders. You obeyed all speed limits apart from NSL which meant No Sodding Limit 
If you didn't make overtakes that were safe and 'on' you failed the course. Those were the days...
My instructor referred to them as GLF (Go Like ...) signs.If you didn't make overtakes that were safe and 'on' you failed the course. Those were the days...
Yes, those were the days
If it has a red circle, there's usually a reason. I don't rush down to the red-circle'd limit but I will often let off and be below the NSL when I enter the red-circle limit, aiming to get there unobtrusively. Covering the brake as there's no need to be accelerating and every potential need to be decelerating harder.
If there's a good view leading into an NSL showing it's safe and legally safe to, I'm happy to start accelerating earlier.
NSL single carriageway, I try and drive to the road and limit points, except when my girlfriend or her kid are in the car, where I keep below 70 even if there's a mile long straight with open views to each side and no traffic. Mostly because the kid's a bit of a back-seat driver and he has endless questions about speed limits...
NSL motorway/DC, I tend to cruise at a speed that gets me through traffic-clumps, but does not have me rushing through the nice clear air between clumps. This means it varies by the road and traffic conditions, and is (theoretically) car limited. Practically this can't exceed 90... (the other rule is never to be the fastest thing out there unless a lift on the accelerator can subtly make you become the 2nd fastest thing out there.)
If there's a good view leading into an NSL showing it's safe and legally safe to, I'm happy to start accelerating earlier.
NSL single carriageway, I try and drive to the road and limit points, except when my girlfriend or her kid are in the car, where I keep below 70 even if there's a mile long straight with open views to each side and no traffic. Mostly because the kid's a bit of a back-seat driver and he has endless questions about speed limits...
NSL motorway/DC, I tend to cruise at a speed that gets me through traffic-clumps, but does not have me rushing through the nice clear air between clumps. This means it varies by the road and traffic conditions, and is (theoretically) car limited. Practically this can't exceed 90... (the other rule is never to be the fastest thing out there unless a lift on the accelerator can subtly make you become the 2nd fastest thing out there.)
I find speed limits and the subject of speeding an interesting topic - especially when looking at it from an advanced driving point-of-view.
I think that, in general, the speed limits do need re-thinking - but the road system does, too. Along with that, the attitudes to driving. I'll explain further - but, if you wanted a short answer - there's what I think!
With regards to the speed limits: There are situations where, similar to many, I've found myself to be at in a position where I feel that I could drive faster without impeding on anyone else's safety (or my own). Examples being driving down country lanes that are straight and pretty-much 100% visible; and motorways when there's no other traffic on there. In these cases, I feel that the speed limits could be lifted slightly - especially when some idiot thinks it's acceptable to leave a half-a-second gap behind! When I went to Germany in 2010, I found that they have got this pretty much bang-on: There are certain roads where there is no speed limit (not just on the Autobahn - on some roads you'd not expect it, but it's entirely justifiable). I definitely think that some situations would call for different speed limits to be introduced (either higher or lower, in some circumstances).
However, I think the over-arching issue with changing the speed limits is that the road system and the attitudes to driving need to be looked-at, too. With regards to the road system: Some roads are purely not designed to allow high-speed traffic, but the speed limits are set far too high. The main one that I think of when typing this is the A500 in Stoke-on-Trent - which is, I'd argue, one of the most dangerous roads in the Midlands - even in the 50 mph zones!
With regards to the attitudes to driving: I think many drivers just aren't competent enough to drive at higher speeds. Cars are getting more advanced, but most drivers seem to be lulled into a false sense of security - meaning over-reliance on things like ABS and TCS - that makes them think that they aren't endangering themselves or anyone else by driving at ridiculously-high speeds (I've been guilty of this in the past - I ended up warping a brake disc because of hoofing the anchors at 100 mph). The main example with this is, as I briefly mentioned earlier in this post, the people who disregard the separation distance. I'm not stereotyping here, but it does seem to be those who sit in lane three on motorways - but I'm not getting too deep into that for the fear of offending. I'll put my hands up - before doing my advanced driving, I was a bit of a one for not keeping distance - but I've since learned that it's important to obey these rules!
Overall - I would welcome changes to speed limits, but only when the attitudes towards driving are changed along with it!
I think that, in general, the speed limits do need re-thinking - but the road system does, too. Along with that, the attitudes to driving. I'll explain further - but, if you wanted a short answer - there's what I think!
With regards to the speed limits: There are situations where, similar to many, I've found myself to be at in a position where I feel that I could drive faster without impeding on anyone else's safety (or my own). Examples being driving down country lanes that are straight and pretty-much 100% visible; and motorways when there's no other traffic on there. In these cases, I feel that the speed limits could be lifted slightly - especially when some idiot thinks it's acceptable to leave a half-a-second gap behind! When I went to Germany in 2010, I found that they have got this pretty much bang-on: There are certain roads where there is no speed limit (not just on the Autobahn - on some roads you'd not expect it, but it's entirely justifiable). I definitely think that some situations would call for different speed limits to be introduced (either higher or lower, in some circumstances).
However, I think the over-arching issue with changing the speed limits is that the road system and the attitudes to driving need to be looked-at, too. With regards to the road system: Some roads are purely not designed to allow high-speed traffic, but the speed limits are set far too high. The main one that I think of when typing this is the A500 in Stoke-on-Trent - which is, I'd argue, one of the most dangerous roads in the Midlands - even in the 50 mph zones!
With regards to the attitudes to driving: I think many drivers just aren't competent enough to drive at higher speeds. Cars are getting more advanced, but most drivers seem to be lulled into a false sense of security - meaning over-reliance on things like ABS and TCS - that makes them think that they aren't endangering themselves or anyone else by driving at ridiculously-high speeds (I've been guilty of this in the past - I ended up warping a brake disc because of hoofing the anchors at 100 mph). The main example with this is, as I briefly mentioned earlier in this post, the people who disregard the separation distance. I'm not stereotyping here, but it does seem to be those who sit in lane three on motorways - but I'm not getting too deep into that for the fear of offending. I'll put my hands up - before doing my advanced driving, I was a bit of a one for not keeping distance - but I've since learned that it's important to obey these rules!
Overall - I would welcome changes to speed limits, but only when the attitudes towards driving are changed along with it!
I am surprised it has not been mentioned already, but as per the OP's post, these rules are pretty much what are applied on police advanced driving courses and have been for a long period of time.
The rules that are followed on these courses, and followed rigidly I might add, are that any NSL is treated as having no speed limit. Of course, that means nothing on it's own, because what it then does is put the driver on show as they need to decipher exactly what speed is required to be progressive yet safe. When you bear in mind that this speed limit applied to motorways as well as single track roads containing multiple hazards, it means that the same rule can produce speeds of 10mph to 150mph (performance dependant), so there is a 140mph range of speed that can be achieved on roads of the same restrictions depending on physical attributes by following this same rule.
Ultimatey it is really simple. Use the Information phase combined with the Safety phase ( which takes priority ) and drive at a speed where you are able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear. On single track roads this would be half the distance you could see to be clear. On three quarter width residential roads n a series of bends, steaming with fresh horse droppings and dustbins wheeled out next to the road, this may be a 10 mph crawl until you exit the location, so and and so forth. Just use your experience and the system to determine your speed, forget about NSL or what it means.
I say all that, of course, there is no defence in statute for speeding and I can't encourage it, but I am merely highlighting a different "perspective" in regards to this rule. And yes GLF's have long been known as go like f---'s.
The rules that are followed on these courses, and followed rigidly I might add, are that any NSL is treated as having no speed limit. Of course, that means nothing on it's own, because what it then does is put the driver on show as they need to decipher exactly what speed is required to be progressive yet safe. When you bear in mind that this speed limit applied to motorways as well as single track roads containing multiple hazards, it means that the same rule can produce speeds of 10mph to 150mph (performance dependant), so there is a 140mph range of speed that can be achieved on roads of the same restrictions depending on physical attributes by following this same rule.
Ultimatey it is really simple. Use the Information phase combined with the Safety phase ( which takes priority ) and drive at a speed where you are able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear. On single track roads this would be half the distance you could see to be clear. On three quarter width residential roads n a series of bends, steaming with fresh horse droppings and dustbins wheeled out next to the road, this may be a 10 mph crawl until you exit the location, so and and so forth. Just use your experience and the system to determine your speed, forget about NSL or what it means.
I say all that, of course, there is no defence in statute for speeding and I can't encourage it, but I am merely highlighting a different "perspective" in regards to this rule. And yes GLF's have long been known as go like f---'s.
namastebuzz said:
Was nipping on a bit when I noticed, a long way behind, a pair of headlights keeping up. Slowed down a touch and noticed they were catching quite quickly. Dropped right to the speed limit and they followed closely until the next village where the blue lights came on.
Their first words were, "Have you been drinking?" and when I replied in the negative the next question was "Well you look like you've been drinking."
Their first words were, "Have you been drinking?" and when I replied in the negative the next question was "Well you look like you've been drinking."
I would say that was a statement not a question.It's also in the same league as the moronic "We had to do Xmph* to catch up with you."
Some folk are as thick as mince.
* Insert figure which exceeds the applicable limit by a considerable percentage.
I defy anyone to be be able to tell whether someone has imbibed alcohol merely by looking at them.
Unless the subject's movements were clearly uncoordinated, and/or their speech was slurred and/or their breath smelled of booze.
I was once asked the "Have you been drinking?" question. I truthfully answered "Yes."
At which point the officer's eyes immediately lit up like the lights on a Christmas tree.
Being in a slightly devilish mood I paused momentarily before continuing with " A cup of coffee an hour ago at the Ace Cafe."
The lights went out.
I could see the wheels turning while he deliberated on whether to ask me to blow anyway. He didn't.
Pointed out that my rear number plate light was defective, told me to get it fixed, and sent me on my way.
AmosMoses said:
I agree it isn't safe to travel at the speed limit on some roads, for instances single track country roads with the NSL.
Er, like this one? - https://goo.gl/maps/XNQ4no99LTK2 - 
AmosMoses said:
My rules for allowing speeding are:
I may or may not have applied those criteria to the road in the above link. - NSL Road
- No traffic around
- Good conditions
- Clear line of sight
- Immediately slow if any of the above change
I ignore the speed limit and drive to the conditions and my ability. This often means I'm going slower than the posted limit and it sometimes means I'm going considerably faster.
Like Tartan, I treat police cars, cameras, etc. as conditions that reduce the safe speed to below the speed limit if it isn't already.
I usually am either under the limit or significantly over. There is no point risking your license for a few miles an hour over.
Like Tartan, I treat police cars, cameras, etc. as conditions that reduce the safe speed to below the speed limit if it isn't already.
I usually am either under the limit or significantly over. There is no point risking your license for a few miles an hour over.
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