Police Response Driving - My experience

Police Response Driving - My experience

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Discussion

vonhosen

40,593 posts

232 months

Wednesday 22nd November 2017
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waremark said:
S. Gonzales Esq. said:
vonhosen said:
What dual carriageway do you have in mind?
I suspect it was a typo, but challenging dual carriageways do exist.
Why do you think it was a typo? My use of challenging related to 'minor rural roads'; my point was that civilian enthusiasts tend not to drive fast on motorways and dual carriageways where speeds which would be challenging would also get you locked up. They keep three figure speeds for tracks, and keep close to 70 on motorways and dual carriageways, where the main challenge becomes to stay awake.
Thank you
My bad, I misunderstood.

waremark

3,274 posts

228 months

Wednesday 22nd November 2017
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vonhosen said:
Thank you
My bad, I misunderstood.
smile

SVS

3,824 posts

286 months

Wednesday 22nd November 2017
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anonymous said:
[redacted]
Good point.

Though it is possible to gain experience at speed on British roads. I did my civvy bike training on the Isle of Man biggrin

I wonder why more IAM and RoSPA peeps don’t pursue smile opportunities to train on the Isle of Man.

DocSteve

726 posts

237 months

Sunday 26th November 2017
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Reflecting on all of this, I think actually it just comes down to all-round ability (certainly not claiming anything personally but just some thoughts):

The competent track/race driver driving fast on the public road including urban areas coming unstuck: Demonstrates a need for improved hazard awareness and observation skills. These skills are beneficial on track despite the controlled environment.

The civilian or police advanced driver who is unable to perform well on track: Demonstrates a need to improve limit handling skills and how to extract the most out of a vehicle when common public highway hazards are removed. For example, if in a pursuit or response drive and a well sighted open bend is present then the police driver should be able to safely navigate it as fast as possible.

The civilian advanced driver who when put in a situation of having to drive fast in an urban area and coming unstuck: Demonstrates a need for improved hazard awareness and observation skills as per the race driver. Although the cross-over mentioned for rural roads is definitely there I think it really extends beyond that to all types of driving. Whether it is looking through hedges, vanishing points, small entrances, horse droppings etc etc the same should apply to urban driving and not just for the police pursuit driver. The police driver is having to do it faster so needs to be better at it than the civilian "advanced driver" but in reality it still comes down to good observation, anticipation and awareness of speed/grip.

I guess I am agreeing that there is no need to rank the different types of training but rather than say we are comparing very different things, I have come to the conclusion that we are just talking about good driving. As Vonhosen alludes to, you will be better in the setting you are used to (e.g. track vs urban pursuit driving) but the ambition should surely to be a driver who can adapt quickly to any given scenario.

That is difficult..... And I know of very few (I don't include me) that can do this.

vonhosen

40,593 posts

232 months

Tuesday 28th November 2017
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anonymous said:
[redacted]
Routinely Police drivers don't do much on the limit handling (other than what used to be done at low speed on skid pans, which all response drivers used to get a few hours at & all Advanced drivers got a bit longer at - but most courses don't provide any skid pan experience anymore).

Of course there are specialist courses that provide some experience of handling at & beyond the limits of grip at higher speeds on regular rather than low grip surfaces, such as anti hijack, or for lower grip surfaces you have off road car/motorcycle/quad courses. You'll also have a smaller number who are fortunate that through their work will have spent some time with others within 'the industry' ('Hairy Don' etc) at places like Bruntingthorpe, Rockingham & the like, or even on courses provided by manufacturers in some cases.

vonhosen

40,593 posts

232 months

Wednesday 29th November 2017
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anonymous said:
[redacted]
The anti hijack course will have you driving around courses, timed laps, where you will be on the limit of grip (people inevitably end up going beyond it) as well as including specific manoeuvre elements. You will also look at/feel how vehicles behave at & beyond the limits of grip (understeer & oversteer) with ESP/DSC systems both on & off. (Even some drifting & how you can intentionally destabilise the vehicle/promote a loss of grip, in order to achieve what you desire from it in certain circumstances).

Some of the other courses I was alluding to, that some departments do with outside providers etc, can involve limit handling.

DocSteve

726 posts

237 months

Thursday 30th November 2017
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Is "Hairy Don" Don Palmer by any chance??

vonhosen

40,593 posts

232 months

Thursday 30th November 2017
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anonymous said:
[redacted]
And others use outside providers.

dvenman

228 posts

130 months

Saturday 16th December 2017
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I've found a similar diary-type thread on another AD site - it's a couple of years old but still pertinent, and a different slant on police driver training.

http://www.advanceddrivinghub.com/forum/viewtopic....

Len Woodman

168 posts

128 months

Thursday 28th December 2017
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Sgt Bilko

1,929 posts

230 months

Tuesday 2nd January 2018
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Really useful thread LG. At some point this year i'll be doing a five week Advanced course, and it's difficult to lay your hands on any real life end-uer experience.

rickayt

3 posts

90 months

Friday 19th January 2018
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Interesting stuff. Lucky guy. biggrin

LosingGrip

Original Poster:

8,310 posts

174 months

Monday 22nd January 2018
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Sgt Bilko said:
Really useful thread LG. At some point this year i'll be doing a five week Advanced course, and it's difficult to lay your hands on any real life end-uer experience.
Good luck! I've heard that going from standard to advanced isn't as big a jump as going from nothing to standard.

Sgt Bilko

1,929 posts

230 months

Monday 22nd January 2018
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LosingGrip said:
Sgt Bilko said:
Really useful thread LG. At some point this year i'll be doing a five week Advanced course, and it's difficult to lay your hands on any real life end-uer experience.
Good luck! I've heard that going from standard to advanced isn't as big a jump as going from nothing to standard.
I can only imagine!

FlyingFin

176 posts

146 months

Monday 22nd January 2018
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Its about the same as flying a Tiger Moth, then jumping straight into a Spitfire! It can be done, but the ability and concentration required is immense and not everyone has the ability.

It is very easy for the standard driver to become 'overloaded' whilst travelling at greater speeds. That's why there are gradual steps from the standard course upwards.




Its a bit like a Physics lesson.... If you double the speed you quadruple the drag....


On the advanced driving course, if you double the speed, you quadruple the concentration!! But first, you must have the ability!!

LosingGrip

Original Poster:

8,310 posts

174 months

Saturday 7th May 2022
quotequote all
Bit of a bump!

Things have changed since my OP. I’m now a PC and now on traffic. I’ve got my advanced course coming up in a few weeks.

Basically my standard course allows me to drive up to 180BHP. Advanced allows me to drive above that (which the traffic cars are).

I’ll try and update fairly regularly.

The big yin

272 posts

56 months

Monday 9th May 2022
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Losing Grip.
Congratulations on getting your job and getting onto Traffic , I hope you enjoy it.
I was in the Ambulance service for 26 years and when I went from patient transport to A&E we had a two weeks driving course which included Roadcraft but not to the standard of a Police driving course which includes commentary(as you know ).
We were allowed to exceed the nsl but on no account were we allowed to use blue lights and sirens and as a result the first time I had to do this was for real and I was cr&^^*ng myself and it was over 50 miles drive to the hospital.
I managed it but when at the hospital I could have taken my shirt off and wrung it out as it was soaking .
You do get used to driving on blues and realise when other drivers are going to just stop suddenly or do not realise you are behind them .
I thought I was a good driver before I did the course and realised I wasn't as good as I thought but improved enough to pass the course and upgrade my standard of driving a lot.
I wish they would make it that within 1 year of passing the standard driving test you must take an advanced course which would improve the standard of driving in the uk.
Enough from me .

Tom1312

1,095 posts

161 months

Wednesday 18th May 2022
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LosingGrip said:
Bit of a bump!

Things have changed since my OP. I’m now a PC and now on traffic. I’ve got my advanced course coming up in a few weeks.

Basically my standard course allows me to drive up to 180BHP. Advanced allows me to drive above that (which the traffic cars are).

I’ll try and update fairly regularly.
Quality.

Did my advanced this year.

Different force to the one I did my standard in, so may have been the instructors on my standard sticking some advanced bits into the course knowing as ARVs we'd do advanced soon after, but wasn't a massive step up IMHO.

Good luck

LosingGrip

Original Poster:

8,310 posts

174 months

Thursday 9th June 2022
quotequote all
So much for updating regularly!

There isn’t much to add more to my standard. It’s just polishing. A lot. Overtakes are expecting to be done whenever possible. Best way to describe it. On your standard course you are expected to justify why you overtook someone. On your advanced you need to justify why you didn’t overtake someone.

It’s a lot harder than I expected. Someone mentioned about speeds doubling and concentration tripling a few posts back. It’s true! I was falling asleep at 6pm most nights.

Lots of driving. Just under 3,000 miles between the two of us in the course.

Looking back it was good fun. At the time it was stressful! I enjoyed it mostly but some days I was ready not to come back as things just seemed to be going wrong.

But things eventually clicked towards the end.

We both passed which was great.

nordboy

2,391 posts

65 months

Thursday 9th June 2022
quotequote all
LosingGrip said:
So much for updating regularly!

There isn’t much to add more to my standard. It’s just polishing. A lot. Overtakes are expecting to be done whenever possible. Best way to describe it. On your standard course you are expected to justify why you overtook someone. On your advanced you need to justify why you didn’t overtake someone.

It’s a lot harder than I expected. Someone mentioned about speeds doubling and concentration tripling a few posts back. It’s true! I was falling asleep at 6pm most nights.

Lots of driving. Just under 3,000 miles between the two of us in the course.

Looking back it was good fun. At the time it was stressful! I enjoyed it mostly but some days I was ready not to come back as things just seemed to be going wrong.

But things eventually clicked towards the end.

We both passed which was great.
Well done,

I'm sure you've had the 'talk' from your instructor about the fact that the next 3-6 months is the most dangerous time for you as you go out with little experience and try to find your feet. Don't rush into hazards. When I did mine (and my adv bike) I never really regarded myself as an adv driver until I returned for my refresher and maintained my grade 1 (I know we don't have grades anymore).
It's more important to actually get to where you want to go, than try and save 30 secs putting yourself and others at risk. That's your only job as an emergency driver, get to or deal with the task in hand safely. And I say all this with the best intentions and experience in my current role as a Police driving instructor. But well done again.