First rwd car need tips
Discussion
Dizeee said:
It can only suggest that steering is affected by rear end swing owing to the temptation of planting it mid corner for entertainment purposes.
No disrespect to your comment but I was wanting RobXjcoupe to explain himself, that we we would know exactly how he was thinking. 
If the back end steps out on a rwd car it does not have any direct affect on the steering....but the driver will need to give an input of some sort to regain control.
The original post was made in response to a comment that said the steering on a rwd car is not corrupted with power in the way a fwd car would be ie. torque steer.
I agree with this viewpoint so was interested to hear what RobXjcoupe explanation was as to why he said the steering is corrupted with power on a rwd car.
Edited by Ron240 on Saturday 8th August 19:11
jgrewal said:
I lost the back once on a rainy roundabout but a simple correction was fine as I was doing the speed limit.
You want to watch that roundabout, they might reduce the speed limit without you noticing, and then you'll crash if you try to go round at the same speed as before...
Post of the week right thereSince I’ve just picked up a Cayman GTS this evening in the pouring rain and found the limits of adhesion not 2 minutes after when lightly accelerating out of a roundabout...take it very easy. Really f
king easy.
As others have rightly said, treat a powerful rear wheel drive car with respect and unless you’re Chris Harris or of that ilk don’t turn the electronics off. They are there for many reasons, topping that list is to help you not cause serious damage to yourself or anyone else!
I’ll definitely be booking a day or two of driver training, road craft based mind you. If I had the talent to sit the car at 45 degrees through a roundabout I think I’d struggle not to do it from time to time so that right there would be a recipe for disaster.
king easy. As others have rightly said, treat a powerful rear wheel drive car with respect and unless you’re Chris Harris or of that ilk don’t turn the electronics off. They are there for many reasons, topping that list is to help you not cause serious damage to yourself or anyone else!
I’ll definitely be booking a day or two of driver training, road craft based mind you. If I had the talent to sit the car at 45 degrees through a roundabout I think I’d struggle not to do it from time to time so that right there would be a recipe for disaster.
Magnum 475 said:
waremark said:
If you want to drive in the snow get winter tyres
This. BMWs on snow require two things:- decent cold weather tyres
- the correct traction control mode
RTFM! There is a traction control mode for snow on BMWs (on non-M cars it's activated with a short push of the traction control button).
The BMWs that people see in hedges on snowy roads are usually driven by people with bald summer tyres and who don't understand how to switch the traction control system to the correct mode. It's an expensive lack of knowledge.
My understanding is that the BMW DSC (Dynamic Stability Control) is actually comprised of DTC (Dynamic Traction Control) and CBC (Corner Brake Control) but there is only one button.
Normally DSC is fully on.
Quick press of the button, goes to DTC only (use this for snow)
Press and hold, turns everything off. (use this for doughnuts
)I would also say that if you are seeing the TC light coming on frequently, then there is something wrong with either the car or your driving, under normal circumstances you should not have the TC stepping in to help.
waremark said:
An excellent plan for fun, but not relevant to keeping out of hedges.
That's totally wrong. Any experience given to those without it of how a car behaves at the limits of adhesion is essential for their drivers toolbox. It doesn't take long to instil a bit of subconscious muscle memory of how to correct understeer / over steer by not overreacting or braking. It could very well provide some much needed experience in a controlled environment, which can be taken out onto the road.Counter-intuitively, it turns out that improving your vehicle handling skills increases the chances of crashing.
The Scandinavians have done loads and loads of research into this phenomenon. And it’s bizarre but true. It transpires that when you increase your handling skills, your confidence rises disproportionately: hence more crashes.
Drivers without enhanced handling skills – it transpires – are more likely to drive within their limits (and crash less often). It’s a finding I didn’t want to hear, having done various race schools on two and four wheels; waremark was right.
It’s not music to my motorcyclist’s ears, but the evidence is compelling. Roadcraft-based training to enhance observation and anticipation – but removing the traditional emphasis on making progress – appears a much better bet for crash reduction.
The Scandinavians have done loads and loads of research into this phenomenon. And it’s bizarre but true. It transpires that when you increase your handling skills, your confidence rises disproportionately: hence more crashes.
Drivers without enhanced handling skills – it transpires – are more likely to drive within their limits (and crash less often). It’s a finding I didn’t want to hear, having done various race schools on two and four wheels; waremark was right.
It’s not music to my motorcyclist’s ears, but the evidence is compelling. Roadcraft-based training to enhance observation and anticipation – but removing the traditional emphasis on making progress – appears a much better bet for crash reduction.
Salted_Peanut said:
Counter-intuitively, it turns out that improving your vehicle handling skills increases the chances of crashing. (waremark is right.)
The Scandinavians have done loads and loads of research into this phenomenon. And it’s bizarre but true. It transpires that when you increase your handling skills, your confidence rises disproportionately: hence more crashes. It’s a finding I didn’t want to hear (having done race schools on two and four wheels).
It’s not music to my motorcyclist’s ears, but the evidence is compelling. Roadcraft-based training to enhance observation and anticipation – but removing the traditional emphasis on making progress – appears a much better bet for crash reduction.
Fun sponge The Scandinavians have done loads and loads of research into this phenomenon. And it’s bizarre but true. It transpires that when you increase your handling skills, your confidence rises disproportionately: hence more crashes. It’s a finding I didn’t want to hear (having done race schools on two and four wheels).
It’s not music to my motorcyclist’s ears, but the evidence is compelling. Roadcraft-based training to enhance observation and anticipation – but removing the traditional emphasis on making progress – appears a much better bet for crash reduction.
waremark said:
gareth h said:
If you’re based anywhere near North Weald, have a chat with Carlimits, they have tuition and a nice big runway to practice on
An excellent plan for fun, but not relevant to keeping out of hedges.I love limit handling for fun 
But the evidence is clear: if you experience losing and regaining control was in a safe environment, then you are significantly more likely to end up in a hedge afterwards.
The Scandis have tried all manner of adjustments to prevent this phenomenon – with many attempts to prevent a disproportionate increase in confidence after training. But to no avail.
And this from someone who’s done his share of track days, race school and dabbled off-road. My risk profile must be through the roof
But the evidence is clear: if you experience losing and regaining control was in a safe environment, then you are significantly more likely to end up in a hedge afterwards.The Scandis have tried all manner of adjustments to prevent this phenomenon – with many attempts to prevent a disproportionate increase in confidence after training. But to no avail.
gareth h said:
Fun sponge
I know And this from someone who’s done his share of track days, race school and dabbled off-road. My risk profile must be through the roof If this is a Scandinavian study, would it not then apply to their demographic above others? Plus they have a lot of snow over there - far more physical presence by virtue of the weather to put drivers at the limits of adhesion a lot of the time, and on a surface which may be unpredictable in itself.
I struggle to see how in this country, where other than rain we have a fairly temperate climate and tarmac roads, any education around the tyre grip trade off would be a disadvantage.
I did a full day on a skid pan at Hendon in 2009, front wheel drive rear wheel drive, clockwise and anti clockwise, left turns, right turns, driving solo and chasing a bandit across it. I struggle to believe that all that exposure disadvantaged me. Regardless of how much it may have encouraged me to go bananas afterwards ( it didn't ) it certainly allowed me to fully understand the dynamics of weight shift, grip and momentum. I even met Von and got to see what he looks like. I swooned.
( FWIW I haven't crashed since, other than on my pushbike in 2014 - but I wasn't drifting that )
I struggle to see how in this country, where other than rain we have a fairly temperate climate and tarmac roads, any education around the tyre grip trade off would be a disadvantage.
I did a full day on a skid pan at Hendon in 2009, front wheel drive rear wheel drive, clockwise and anti clockwise, left turns, right turns, driving solo and chasing a bandit across it. I struggle to believe that all that exposure disadvantaged me. Regardless of how much it may have encouraged me to go bananas afterwards ( it didn't ) it certainly allowed me to fully understand the dynamics of weight shift, grip and momentum. I even met Von and got to see what he looks like. I swooned.
( FWIW I haven't crashed since, other than on my pushbike in 2014 - but I wasn't drifting that )
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