Priority on slip roads

Priority on slip roads

Author
Discussion

_Hoppers

649 posts

32 months

Friday 8th January
quotequote all
monthou said:
_Hoppers said:
Are you sure it’s a ‘give way’ line?
Why not say what you think it is?
I already have

Volvolover

864 posts

8 months

Friday 8th January
quotequote all
_Hoppers said:
Konrod said:
The dotted white line is a give way sign.......
According to the Traffic Signs regs (unless I’m missing something) the dotted line is an edge of carriageway marking, see page 76.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...

Repeating what others have said, vehicles on the road you are joining have priority (not a right of way) but why wouldn’t you modify your position/speed to allow others to safely join the dual/motorway? The Highway Code says “The rules in The Highway Code do not give you the right of way in any circumstance, but they advise you when you should give way to others. Always give way if it can help to avoid an incident.” and

“Rule 144
You MUST NOT

drive dangerously
drive without due care and attention
drive without reasonable consideration for other road users.”

With particular attention to the last sentence in the first quote and last rule in 144, I think drivers on the main carriageway have a responsibility to allow other vehicles to safely merge. It’s a bugbear of mine when people say it’s the sole onus of the driver on the slip to merge and assume the dotted lines are give way markings and apply similarly to give ways at T junctions etc.
You are of course completely wrong thankfully.

The vehicle established in lane 1 should not be expected to observe the vehicle attempting to join on the slip and the vehicles he may potentially impede in lane 2 simultaneously unless he says ‘go go gadget eyes’.......

The guidance is written for a reason and it’s to minimise risk, the joining vehicle only has one gap to observe the established vehicle has 3 lanes already to observe and react to.

I’ve lost count of the number of idiots I’ve seen being ‘polite’ who zoom out of lane 1 into lane 2 at the first sign of a car on the slip and cause a braking incident because they didn’t check their mirrors correctly or assumed the car they impeded in lane 2 could move to lane 3 without actually being able to see far enough back to establish if this is correct or not.



monthou

999 posts

17 months

Friday 8th January
quotequote all
_Hoppers said:
I already have
The highway code says when on a slip road you should 'give priority to traffic already on the motorway.'
That sounds very much like 'give way' doesn't it?

_Hoppers

649 posts

32 months

Friday 8th January
quotequote all
Volvolover said:
The vehicle established in lane 1 should not be expected to observe the vehicle attempting to join on the slip....
Really?!

With regard to the part of my post in which you highlighted you actually seem to be saying that you do not have to offer any consideration to safely allow others to join the carriageway?!

_Hoppers

649 posts

32 months

Friday 8th January
quotequote all
monthou said:
The highway code says when on a slip road you should 'give priority to traffic already on the motorway.'
That sounds very much like 'give way' doesn't it?
But how do the regs actually describe the ‘line’ in question?

monthou

999 posts

17 months

Friday 8th January
quotequote all
_Hoppers said:
But how do the regs actually describe the ‘line’ in question?
You tell me.
I know I have to give priority to traffic on the motorway. If in practice that means something other than 'stop at the line if it's not safe to cross it' then please explain because I can't see it.
Of course 'give way' would be another way to say all that.



_Hoppers

649 posts

32 months

Friday 8th January
quotequote all
monthou said:
You tell me.
I know I have to give priority to traffic on the motorway. If in practice that means something other than 'stop at the line if it's not safe to cross it' then please explain because I can't see it.
Of course 'give way' would be another way to say all that.


MitchT

13,730 posts

176 months

Friday 8th January
quotequote all
ScoobyChris said:
PrinceRupert said:
The traffic does not need to give way, but why wouldn't you?
Yep just common courtesy to help keep the traffic flowing and make other people's lives easier. Similar to moving out to lane 3 to assist people who are closing on a slower moving vehicle in lane 1 and will want to overtake.

Chris
It can be a real pain on dual carriageways if people won't let you merge. One the one hand, you're supposed to match your speed to that of the traffic but, on the other hand, if no one lets you merge you've then got to stop in the very short remaining distance as there's no hard shoulder to bail you out. Worse still if there's someone behind you looking over their shoulder for a gap and doesn't notice that you've had to stop.

monthou

999 posts

17 months

Friday 8th January
quotequote all
@ _Hoppers
Are you saying I don't have to give way at the line then?

_Hoppers

649 posts

32 months

Saturday 9th January
quotequote all
monthou said:
@ _Hoppers
Are you saying I don't have to give way at the line then?
Read my previous posts

monthou

999 posts

17 months

Saturday 9th January
quotequote all
_Hoppers said:
Read my previous posts
It really is yes / no.

Here's something the Highway Code says about motorway driving:
"Rule 264

You should always drive in the left-hand lane when the road ahead is clear. If you are overtaking a number of slower-moving vehicles, you should return to the left-hand lane as soon as you are safely past. Slow-moving or speed-restricted vehicles should always remain in the left-hand lane of the carriageway unless overtaking."
Despite that I'll still move out if it's clear. But I'm not obliged to.
I'll also speed up / slow down to make life easier for someone merging. But again there's no legal obligation.


GasEngineer

25 posts

29 months

Saturday 9th January
quotequote all
Volvolover said:
You are of course completely wrong thankfully.

The vehicle established in lane 1 should not be expected to observe the vehicle attempting to join on the slip and the vehicles he may potentially impede in lane 2 simultaneously unless he says ‘go go gadget eyes’.......

The guidance is written for a reason and it’s to minimise risk, the joining vehicle only has one gap to observe the established vehicle has 3 lanes already to observe and react to.

I’ve lost count of the number of idiots I’ve seen being ‘polite’ who zoom out of lane 1 into lane 2 at the first sign of a car on the slip and cause a braking incident because they didn’t check their mirrors correctly or assumed the car they impeded in lane 2 could move to lane 3 without actually being able to see far enough back to establish if this is correct or not.
Spot on ! Well said.

LukeBrown66

915 posts

13 months

Saturday 9th January
quotequote all
I think the big thing here is there is almost an agreement among most motorists to allow traffic to merge from especially very busy slip roads.

But obviously not everyone knows this or cares so you can easily get upset or frustrated when someone does not let you out. it is a sort of hidden give and take from most of us.

What is frustrating is when people insist on doing 30 or 40 on a motorway slip when traffic on the main road is free flowing, this prevents ease of merge and makes it far more dangerous for people on the slip as they are often caught between looking behind and in front. Not necessarily wrong if you are supposed to wait for a gap, but we all know it doesn't really work like that

Vipers

29,351 posts

195 months

Saturday 9th January
quotequote all
LukeBrown66 said:
I think the big thing here is there is almost an agreement among most motorists to allow traffic to merge from especially very busy slip roads.

But obviously not everyone knows this or cares so you can easily get upset or frustrated when someone does not let you out. it is a sort of hidden give and take from most of us.

What is frustrating is when people insist on doing 30 or 40 on a motorway slip when traffic on the main road is free flowing, this prevents ease of merge and makes it far more dangerous for people on the slip as they are often caught between looking behind and in front. Not necessarily wrong if you are supposed to wait for a gap, but we all know it doesn't really work like that
I wonder if those who think they have gods gift to enter the carriageway from the slipway regardless are those who have difficulty merging when approaching road works, probably those who truck along the outside well past the merge in sign and try to barge in at the end of the lane.

I was in the states a few years ago on a 4 lane carriageway, it slowely reduced to 3, then 2 then 1, absolutely no probably with people merging.


_Hoppers

649 posts

32 months

Saturday 9th January
quotequote all
monthou said:
But again there's no legal obligation.
I don’t think there is a specific legal obligation to, similarly, there isn’t a law which specifically states you cannot undertake. What the HC does state however is:

“This section should be read by all drivers, motorcyclists, cyclists and horse riders. The rules in The Highway Code do not give you the right of way in any circumstance, but they advise you when you should give way to others. Always give way if it can help to avoid an incident.

and

“ Rule 144
You MUST NOT drive dangerously
drive without due care and attention
drive without reasonable consideration for other road users
Law RTA 1988 sects 2 & 3 as amended by RTA 1991

monthou

999 posts

17 months

Saturday 9th January
quotequote all
_Hoppers said:
I don’t think there is a specific legal obligation
Thankyou.
And there is a specific legal obligation to give way ('give priority') when entering a motorway from a slip road.
To give way at the line in fact.
I don't know why you're struggling with that.
I passed my test about 37 years ago, and in that time I've not yet ended up stationary at the end of a slip road (or at least not when the motorway was flowing). But it could happen next time.

Vipers

29,351 posts

195 months

Saturday 9th January
quotequote all
monthou said:
Thankyou.
And there is a specific legal obligation to give way ('give priority') when entering a motorway from a slip road.
To give way at the line in fact.
I don't know why you're struggling with that.
I passed my test about 37 years ago, and in that time I've not yet ended up stationary at the end of a slip road (or at least not when the motorway was flowing). But it could happen next time.
Only once, shortish single lane slip road at Gretna joining southbound, (A74 M),, biddy in front managed to get up to about 40 and decided it was too darn dangerous to merge, so she stopped dead.



Edited by Vipers on Saturday 9th January 11:56

_Hoppers

649 posts

32 months

Saturday 9th January
quotequote all
monthou said:
Thankyou.
And there is a specific legal obligation to give way ('give priority') when entering a motorway from a slip road.
To give way at the line in fact.
I don't know why you're struggling with that.
I passed my test about 37 years ago, and in that time I've not yet ended up stationary at the end of a slip road (or at least not when the motorway was flowing). But it could happen next time.
What is the specific law which governs giving priority when entering motorway though? I don’t think there is one, I think it will come under a blanket driving without due care/consideration law?

For example, this text is in the introduction to the HC


There is a specific law for junctions covered by Give Way signage (note that the dotted lines it refers to don’t apply to the lines in Diagram 1010 (edge of carriageway markings) as far as I can see)



There’s isn’t a specific law for the section for joining a motorway


As I have already posted, by labelling the slip as a give way/give way junction some, it seems that some people assume that this means they do not have to offer any consideration (for which there is a specific law) to those wanting to join. This is the point I’m trying to get across.

Edited by _Hoppers on Saturday 9th January 13:54

monthou

999 posts

17 months

Saturday 9th January
quotequote all
_Hoppers said:
As I have already posted, by labelling the slip as a give way/give way junction some, it seems that some people assume that this means they do not have to offer any consideration to those wanting to join. This is the point I’m trying to get across.
People on the slip road must give way.
People on the motorway should show consideration because that's what civilised people do, and what goes around comes around.

Teddy Lop

5,443 posts

34 months

Saturday 9th January
quotequote all
Nampahc Niloc said:
People not accelerating on slip roqds is one of my biggest bug bears (bares???). It’s dangerous and also screws over the car behind, who cannot get up to speed either.

There is a dual carriageway near me where you are lucky if people join any faster than 50mph, speeds of 40mph or less are not unheard and you even get the odd idiot who comes to a complete stop. These days I try to hold back so I can get a bit of speed up.

Also, everyone seems to slow down as they approach the exit, rather than once on the slip road.
not unheard of?

I join the m25 at j24 often in the morning, its about 1 in 3 that think 30-35 is quite very fast enough thank you, lanes 1 & 2 usually thick with lorries which then brake and close together leaving no merge space for the poor mug behind.

I swear people are actively forgetting how to drive, or cars are so easy now they're not driving so much as indifferently being in control of a car, like having the tv remote in your hand but not really watching it.