Priority on slip roads

Priority on slip roads

Author
Discussion

Volvolover

864 posts

8 months

Sunday 10th January
quotequote all
_Hoppers said:
But it holds more authority than your posts
Not really, you couldn’t prosecute anyone with it

So just the same legally speaking

Volvolover

864 posts

8 months

Sunday 10th January
quotequote all
_Hoppers said:
Volvolover said:
_Hoppers said:
Quote from Roadcraft - The Police Driver's Handbook

“when you see a motorway exit, anticipate a slip road ahead and the possibility of traffic joining the motorway. If you are on the main carriageway, check your mirrors early and allow traffic to join the motorway by making slight adjustments your speed or changing lane”
It may or may not have escaped your attention it most drivers are not police drivers and have to use the published official guidance such as the road traffic act and the Highway Code

Maybe that helps

I’m not saying what is good practise I’m saying what you are required or not required to do

If you are leaving the correct gap to the vehicle in front, travelling at an appropriate speed for Lane 1 and there is another car joining the motorway there is no need or requirement for the established vehicle to move whatsoever
The book is publicly available and is used by students training for their IAM and RoSPA test. Don’t forget this is the Advanced Driving section of PH, if it’s beyond you then maybe you should consider not posting here again?
Nobody has said what is good practise or not, you are arguing that legally an established vehicle may have to deviate for one joining (assuming we’re not talking wide loads, hgv’s etc) then no as we’ve said before, if you’re leaving the correct gap and travelling at an appropriate speed in L1 then there is no Onus to give way to a joining vehicle , whether you may or may not is entirely different but it is the choice of the driver in L1 not that if the driver on the slip as they are completely unable to fully assess the situation the driver in L1 is in

_Hoppers

649 posts

32 months

Tuesday 12th January
quotequote all
If a vehicle is leaving a ‘correct’ gap for the merging vehicle to fit into, this ‘correct’ gap is now halved. So assuming all 3 vehicles are doing 70mph the merged vehicle has to reduce their speed to make the gap ‘correct’ which in turn means the vehicle behind has to reduce their speed too to create the ‘correct’ gap in front of them. You keep stating that established vehicles on the carriageway do not need to modify their speed for merging vehicles but if drivers are not leaving a ‘correct’ gap between them and the vehicle in front then they are driving without due care etc

I’m done having this discussion on an Advanced Driving forum with someone who has clearly never heard of or read Roadcraft!

Volvolover

864 posts

8 months

Tuesday 12th January
quotequote all
The correct gap is one which would allow another to merge safely as you know you’re approaching a junction long before the potential car appears

I can see this hard for you

You should not need to move to react to a driver on the slip road if you have prepared correctly for the approaching slip....

If you do have to then the driver on the slip has done something wrong


_Hoppers

649 posts

32 months

Tuesday 12th January
quotequote all
Volvolover said:
You should not need to move to react to a driver on the slip road if you have prepared correctly for the approaching slip....
So how the fk do you do this if you don’t modify you’re fking SPEED ffs!

Volvolover

864 posts

8 months

Tuesday 12th January
quotequote all
_Hoppers said:
Volvolover said:
You should not need to move to react to a driver on the slip road if you have prepared correctly for the approaching slip....
So how the fk do you do this if you don’t modify you’re fking SPEED ffs!
Because you’ve already done it on approach regardless of if a car is there or not (you can’t see)

Read what I wrote, you should not need to REACT to a car on the slip attempting to join if you've prepared correctly.....

Muddle238

2,642 posts

80 months

Wednesday 13th January
quotequote all
Volvolover said:
_Hoppers said:
Quote from Roadcraft - The Police Driver's Handbook

“when you see a motorway exit, anticipate a slip road ahead and the possibility of traffic joining the motorway. If you are on the main carriageway, check your mirrors early and allow traffic to join the motorway by making slight adjustments your speed or changing lane”
It may or may not have escaped your attention it most drivers are not police drivers and have to use the published official guidance such as the road traffic act and the Highway Code

Maybe that helps

I’m not saying what is good practise I’m saying what you are required or not required to do

If you are leaving the correct gap to the vehicle in front, travelling at an appropriate speed for Lane 1 and there is another car joining the motorway there is no need or requirement for the established vehicle to move whatsoever
No legal requirement explicitly states you must move over, but Rule 144 states that “you MUST NOT drive without reasonable consideration for other road users” which covers all aspects of driving.

There are situations whereby plainly refusing to move over when it is an available option, especially when there’s a longer line of traffic joining from the slip road, may be lacking reasonable consideration for other road users. Of course, if you can’t move over due to other traffic then that’s fine, you’d have assessed your options based on traffic conditions and deemed it unreasonable to move out.

In that scenario, we know that joining traffic should still “check the traffic on the motorway and match their speed to fit safely into the traffic flow in the left-hand lane” (Rule 259), but if we knowingly closed up a gap that appeared a joining vehicle was aiming for, that is not driving with “reasonable consideration for other road users”. So while the law doesn’t explicitly state traffic in L1 has to do XYZ, there is broader legislation that puts an element of responsibility on traffic in L1 to facilitate safe merging, as such drivers in L1 may be required to adjust speed or position to satisfy Rule 144.


Volvolover

864 posts

8 months

Wednesday 13th January
quotequote all
Muddle238 said:
Volvolover said:
_Hoppers said:
Quote from Roadcraft - The Police Driver's Handbook

“when you see a motorway exit, anticipate a slip road ahead and the possibility of traffic joining the motorway. If you are on the main carriageway, check your mirrors early and allow traffic to join the motorway by making slight adjustments your speed or changing lane”
It may or may not have escaped your attention it most drivers are not police drivers and have to use the published official guidance such as the road traffic act and the Highway Code

Maybe that helps

I’m not saying what is good practise I’m saying what you are required or not required to do

If you are leaving the correct gap to the vehicle in front, travelling at an appropriate speed for Lane 1 and there is another car joining the motorway there is no need or requirement for the established vehicle to move whatsoever
No legal requirement explicitly states you must move over, but Rule 144 states that “you MUST NOT drive without reasonable consideration for other road users” which covers all aspects of driving.

There are situations whereby plainly refusing to move over when it is an available option, especially when there’s a longer line of traffic joining from the slip road, may be lacking reasonable consideration for other road users. Of course, if you can’t move over due to other traffic then that’s fine, you’d have assessed your options based on traffic conditions and deemed it unreasonable to move out.

In that scenario, we know that joining traffic should still “check the traffic on the motorway and match their speed to fit safely into the traffic flow in the left-hand lane” (Rule 259), but if we knowingly closed up a gap that appeared a joining vehicle was aiming for, that is not driving with “reasonable consideration for other road users”. So while the law doesn’t explicitly state traffic in L1 has to do XYZ, there is broader legislation that puts an element of responsibility on traffic in L1 to facilitate safe merging, as such drivers in L1 may be required to adjust speed or position to satisfy Rule 144.
I’ve never said I wouldn’t or don’t move but if info have to then it’s because driver on slip is a cock

Muddle238

2,642 posts

80 months

Wednesday 13th January
quotequote all
Volvolover said:
I’ve never said I wouldn’t or don’t move but if info have to then it’s because driver on slip is a cock
What a spectacularly valuable contribution to the thread; thanks for the giggle.

Volvolover

864 posts

8 months

Wednesday 13th January
quotequote all
Muddle238 said:
Volvolover said:
I’ve never said I wouldn’t or don’t move but if info have to then it’s because driver on slip is a cock
What a spectacularly valuable contribution to the thread; thanks for the giggle.
My pleasure . I’m sure you can read further up

Cliffe60

1,194 posts

3 months

Thursday 22nd April
quotequote all
Rozzers said:
What really annoys me is that there is a huge gap in front of you (sitting on the speed limit) and another behind. Lanes 2 and 3 are busy and moving into lane 2 will cause other vehicles to have to adjust their distances by braking to compensate.

So what does the joiner do?

Matches your speed right to the end of the slip.

Day and daily, and you can usually spot by the type of car, at least 70% are either ‘excuse cars’ (its only a small car so I don't need to drive properly) or some filthy mobile living room with missing wheel trims.

If its a truck or bus I just afford them an obvious gap they usually recognise and slot in without fuss, as you cant really expect them to speed up and slow down to get into a gap, as they just cant!

I’m all for re-testing every 5 years, a different type of test for these re-sits, including theory. I dont expect everyone to be RoSPA Gold, or not to make mistakes, but a good 20% simply shouldn’t be on the road for the safety of everyone.
Never heard the term “excuse car”. Like it.

Cliffe60

1,194 posts

3 months

Thursday 22nd April
quotequote all
rxe said:
Nampahc Niloc said:
People not accelerating on slip roqds is one of my biggest bug bears (bares???). It’s dangerous and also screws over the car behind, who cannot get up to speed either.

There is a dual carriageway near me where you are lucky if people join any faster than 50mph, speeds of 40mph or less are not unheard and you even get the odd idiot who comes to a complete stop. These days I try to hold back so I can get a bit of speed up.

Also, everyone seems to slow down as they approach the exit, rather than once on the slip road.
This pisses me off as well, but having bought a new car for my mum, and having driven it a bit, I now understand what the problem is - there are a lot of cooking cars that are just too damn slow to accelerate to a safe speed. There is a fairly short slip that I use frequently, in all of my daily drivers, I can easily be at 70 before joining the motorway. In my mum’s Yaris, even If I floor it, I’m only at 50.....
Very few modern cars don’t have enough acceleration to get upto speed. It more like many people haven’t a clue how to use their gears ( typically those who say they’d never have an automatic because they like to be “in control”).
Stuck it in 6th at 30 , yes you’ll take a week to get to 70.
The dash lights that tell you when to change gear don’t help. They typically tell you to be in 6th way before 40.

Jaetten

108 posts

37 months

Monday 26th April
quotequote all
I was taught that if the joining car on the slip is ahead of me, either reduce speed to give them a bigger gap to join, or if clear, move lanes. On all slip roads on motorways I move to lane two, if clear, to allow them to join and move back over after the slip.

It's safer to move out of joining traffics way if you can do so without causing hazards to other users. Rather move than be totaled by a moron.

Some roads have a dedicated on/off lane, I think the A611 or is it 511? Derby to Nott's has a section like this. Seems much safer to have these.

Edited by Jaetten on Monday 26th April 14:47

Vipers

29,351 posts

195 months

Monday 26th April
quotequote all
After reading some of the discussion points here, I do wonder what happened to basic common sense and curtesy on our roads these days. So many seem to drive with blinkers on.

silverfoxcc

6,718 posts

112 months

Monday 26th April
quotequote all
Had one yesterday
The main DC has a LH bend with the slip joining halfway around.
However just around from the field of view from the slip, the DC drops to one lane with the outer coned off which starts just as the slip ends ( hope that makes sense)
Man in small red van either doesn't know or is one of the ' am indicating so i have right of way/priority/precedence drivers' ( EXACTLY what is the difference in those three statements?)
If i pulled out to left him join i would have to get stsaight back in because of the cones...so i stsy put, and notice, as he should have that there was F all traffic behind me and he had ample time andspace to slow and drop in behindinstead of trying to get in my pax door.
He finally realised that i wasn't going to move and dropped back giving me one and two fingers ,and pulling out, not doubt in an effort to check my stopping distance, when he saw the start of the cones.
However the ones that really get my urine to 100C are those on motorways that do a sharp right into the second lane,No indication, so possible no use of mirrors, or hittingthe brakes those i really like...... NOT

Jaetten

108 posts

37 months

Tuesday 27th April
quotequote all
Vipers said:
After reading some of the discussion points here, I do wonder what happened to basic common sense and curtesy on our roads these days. So many seem to drive with blinkers on.
Have a look at the hundreds of YT videos. Collision footage of people merging and the car already on the road has, in some cases, 60 seconds to either slow down or move over, but they refuse to because "it's their right of way" and they allow 100% avoidable collisions to happen.

That's not to say the other car isn't at fault, but that's not the point. The aim is to reduce the chance of a collision regardless of who's in the wrong.

The biggest moron is the one who lets another moron's actions cause an accident when they themselves have the choice to prevent it...

carlove

6,749 posts

134 months

Tuesday 27th April
quotequote all
Vipers said:
After reading some of the discussion points here, I do wonder what happened to basic common sense and curtesy on our roads these days. So many seem to drive with blinkers on.
Exactly, If I see a car on a slip road, and I can safely slow down or move over I will.

For the last 5 years I’ve been doing 20k+ miles a year, never had to brake on a slip road, and very rarely prevented a merge, but only as it wasn’t safe for me to slow or move over. I start planning for the slip road before I reach it.

My absolute pet hate though is people not building up speed on the slip road, had one a few weeks ago going for it at 30mph, I did do something cockish though I admit, i saw nothing coming and being a long (single lane) slip road put my foot and merged before they could and passed, car behind did the same.

Edited by carlove on Tuesday 27th April 16:00

Vipers

29,351 posts

195 months

Tuesday 27th April
quotequote all
carlove said:
Vipers said:
After reading some of the discussion points here, I do wonder what happened to basic common sense and curtesy on our roads these days. So many seem to drive with blinkers on.
Exactly, If I see a car on a slip road, and I can safely slow down or move over I will.

For the last 5 years I’ve been doing 20k+ miles a year, never had to brake on a slip road, and very rarely prevented a merge, but only as it wasn’t safe for me to slow or move over. I start planning for the slip road before I reach it.

My absolute pet hate though is people not building up speed on the slip road, had one a few weeks ago going for it at 30mph, I did do something cockish though I admit, i saw nothing coming and being a long (single lane) slip road put my foot and merged before they could and passed, car behind did the same.

Edited by carlove on Tuesday 27th April 16:00
I do the same, observation, anticipate and do what I can to let traffic merge.