Thread Crush - Overtake

Thread Crush - Overtake

Author
Discussion

Lost ranger

51 posts

32 months

Wednesday 9th June
quotequote all
ScoobyChris said:
I think it's important to seek co-operation for an overtake as a predictable "target" is much easier to manage. For example, if I move out for a better look and the target speeds up, I know that he's not going to make my life easy.

I'm not a fan of "TED" (was that coined by Driven on C4 years ago?) which suggests that you don't have comfortable margins for the overtake. If you are exposing yourself to danger, you're doing it wrong wink

Chris
You do it right by ensuring the bit-where-you-can't-escape-back-to-the-nearside is over with before there's any chance of oncoming traffic. TED is just a convenient way of referring to that bit, it doesn't mean you are in danger, just that you would be exposed to danger if danger arose. Knowing your TED is necessary to ensure you have a margin.

What I don't like is equating TED with time spent on the other side of the road. It encourages people to race up to the rear of the vehicle to be overtaken then swerve out rather than pull out, have a final good look, then accelerate. Being on the offside isn't TED if you can pull back.

Similarly, if overtaking a line of traffic, keeping the speed differential down may mean you spend more time on the offside, but if it allows you to slip back into the line if necessary without any drama you have multiple brief TEDs instead of one long one.

Haltamer

1,858 posts

47 months

Wednesday 9th June
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julian64 said:
I suspect unless the unicorn dashcam video actually turns up showing an overtake of a police car, we have stalled at the first hurdle.
I have seen a clip of a safe, within the limit plod overtake (40 in an NSL); The cammer did get a tug - Unfortunately not my clip to share though.

OllieJolly

286 posts

83 months

Wednesday 9th June
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Oilchange said:
Too many people doing 45 in a 60, holding lines of traffic up. There often isn't enough road to overtake these muppets without exceeding the limit, especially if you have an idiot that decides that they don't like being overtaken and presses on while you are alongside. Happens a lot.
Get it done then pull in and slow if need be to the limit, is the way I see it.
This is the problem I have.

If I'm behind someone doing 45 (more often than not on NSL roads) it's rarely worth the risk/reward of overtaking them, if sticking to the limit.

Most of the time they'll speed up either during or after the overtake, failing that they'll catch back up to me in the next 30 zone or traffic lights.
I complained about the "45 brigade" on Facebook and got told off, "maybe they have a reason", "they're looking for a turning", "they don't know the road", "it's a limit not a target" so I gave up with that.

Yesterday I was on the road from Leek to Macclesfield, it's NSL after Rushton up to Bosley Crossroads. I was behind a Kia doing between 40 and 48ish, with a 20-30 second gap in front of them to another train of cars doing similar speed. So no real point in overtaking.

The guy behind me though didn't see it the same way, he was tailgating me very closely, swerving all over the lane and itching to get past, to the point that as we pulled up at a red at Bosley crossroads, he went into the left (left turn only) lane and undertook both of us. I knew as soon as he went in the left lane what his intentions were, disappointing though as he was in a company Corsa van, so you'd think he'd be a bit more considerate.

Of course, as soon as we got into Macclesfield he hit the school traffic and we caught up to him.

In short, if it's worth an overtake then I would rather exceed the limit briefly to make sure I clear someone, but it's not often that an overtake is actually worthwhile these days unless it's a tractor/cyclist/caravan/horsebox etc as many times they'll just catch you back up.

Pica-Pica

8,423 posts

51 months

Wednesday 9th June
quotequote all
julian64 said:
Pica-Pica said:
Fastdruid said:
julian64 said:
We need someone who agrees with the MUMSNET sentiments to post dashcam footage of them overtaking a police car. If mumsnet is right then this should be possible, completely legally, without getting pulled over.
I've done this. NSL/60 mph limit, police car and a car in front, both doing ~40mph. Double overtook them. Didn't break the speed limit. Didn't get stopped.

No dashcam footage though, sorry.
The same. I have certainly overtaken police cars with no issue. I assume that police are advised to drive at say 65mph on motorways, except when on a chase, or specifically controlling traffic speed.
No dashcam either, I prefer to avoid accidents rather than film them.
You two give me hope, get your dashcams working !!!
I am not planning to buy a dashcam to satisfy others’ curiosities!

Tyre Tread

9,670 posts

183 months

Wednesday 9th June
quotequote all
M4cruiser said:
Tyre Tread said:
I was always taught to minimise "TED" (Time Exposed to Danger" - Plan it, execute it and get back into lane safely.


rolleyes
Yes, but do you think the average driver is taught that?
No, but does that make it wrong? Or inappropriate?

Tyre Tread

9,670 posts

183 months

Wednesday 9th June
quotequote all
ScoobyChris said:
I think it's important to seek co-operation for an overtake as a predictable "target" is much easier to manage. For example, if I move out for a better look and the target speeds up, I know that he's not going to make my life easy.

I'm not a fan of "TED" (was that coined by Driven on C4 years ago?) which suggests that you don't have comfortable margins for the overtake. If you are exposing yourself to danger, you're doing it wrong wink

Chris
If you want to avoid being exposed to danger on the roads then sit in your car on your driveway and make brum brum noises.

Seriously, every overtake has a risk attached to it but so does every manoeuvre you make and therefore surely the aim must be to minimise risk while executing the manoeuvre? IF you deem it too risky, that's fine. You can sit with all the other wombles doing 40 in a 60, 40 in a 50, 40 in a 40 and 40 in a 30. Personally, I enjoy having a clear road ahead so I can see ahead (SUVs and commercial vehicles make this difficult), plan ahead and make my own decisions. It has served me well for my 40+ years of driving

ScoobyChris

994 posts

169 months

Wednesday 9th June
quotequote all
Tyre Tread said:
Seriously, every overtake has a risk attached to it but so does every manoeuvre you make and therefore surely the aim must be to minimise risk while executing the manoeuvre?
Agreed, but I don't see "danger" as the same as "risk". If you are being exposed to danger that implies at some point something bad will happen. But anyway, maybe it's just semantics. As Lost Ranger mentions, going faster does not necessarily reduce "TED" and in some cases can have the opposite effect if the plan needs changing.

Chris

M4cruiser

2,476 posts

117 months

Wednesday 9th June
quotequote all
Tyre Tread said:
M4cruiser said:
Tyre Tread said:
I was always taught to minimise "TED" (Time Exposed to Danger" - Plan it, execute it and get back into lane safely.


rolleyes
Yes, but do you think the average driver is taught that?
No, but does that make it wrong? Or inappropriate?
My point was: These comments came from the suggestion that average drivers shouldn't be doing overtakes on single carriageway roads. It is a manoeuvre that requires enhanced skills.
Find someone who has just passed their driving test and see how much they know about overtaking, or TED.

As an extension of this train of thought: Do you think self-driving cars are being programmed to do this kind of overtake? I think not. It's far too complicated a manoeuvre for a computer to work out when it's safe to do.


kiethton

12,507 posts

147 months

Wednesday 9th June
quotequote all
To add some debate (I posted this into the AD group of which I'm a member shortly after it happened and had a mixed view). This was an overtake conducted by myself last summer in my wife's car (she was asleep through the whole thing).

https://youtu.be/OUN248rHfnM

I was pulled over shortly afterwards, intention was to pass the car ahead of the police car (which had an earlier start out of the junction/we'd had to wait for a car turning in the opposite direction) on the next long, well sighted straight - it was doing 35 in the NSL's prior. Due to what I was overtaking I did not break the speed limit (but was accused of doing so). We had a discussion and agreed to disagree before carrying on our way.

MikeM6

3,571 posts

69 months

Wednesday 9th June
quotequote all
I don't overtake much on commutes anymore, but being fortunate to not live in the south east, there are plenty of empty roads where overtaking is not only safe, but purposeful too

Bennet

1,576 posts

98 months

Thursday 10th June
quotequote all
kiethton said:
To add some debate (I posted this into the AD group of which I'm a member shortly after it happened and had a mixed view). This was an overtake conducted by myself last summer in my wife's car (she was asleep through the whole thing).

https://youtu.be/OUN248rHfnM

I was pulled over shortly afterwards, intention was to pass the car ahead of the police car (which had an earlier start out of the junction/we'd had to wait for a car turning in the opposite direction) on the next long, well sighted straight - it was doing 35 in the NSL's prior. Due to what I was overtaking I did not break the speed limit (but was accused of doing so). We had a discussion and agreed to disagree before carrying on our way.
The camera quality makes it very difficult to assess visibility, but I'd say the bend to the left immediately in front of the police car would be more of a concern than your speed.

Did you get the idea you had injured his pride?

kiethton

12,507 posts

147 months

Thursday 10th June
quotequote all
Bennet said:
kiethton said:
To add some debate (I posted this into the AD group of which I'm a member shortly after it happened and had a mixed view). This was an overtake conducted by myself last summer in my wife's car (she was asleep through the whole thing).

https://youtu.be/OUN248rHfnM

I was pulled over shortly afterwards, intention was to pass the car ahead of the police car (which had an earlier start out of the junction/we'd had to wait for a car turning in the opposite direction) on the next long, well sighted straight - it was doing 35 in the NSL's prior. Due to what I was overtaking I did not break the speed limit (but was accused of doing so). We had a discussion and agreed to disagree before carrying on our way.
The camera quality makes it very difficult to assess visibility, but I'd say the bend to the left immediately in front of the police car would be more of a concern than your speed.

Did you get the idea you had injured his pride?
The bend wasn't an issue - when fully off-side the left bend is so shallow you have the visibility - would have been done before half way down the straight too but they decided to speed up as they were being overtaken - with me not wanting to break the limit for an obvious reason it dragged a little - normally I'd have been accelerating harder (M135i) as power isn't an issue.

Very much a pride injured pull "I know you've got more power but didn't have to do that" etc... was rebusffed with as you know you shouldn't be accelerating when being overtaken....neither of us conceded and was finished after 10 minutes of going round in circles with me saying lets agree to disagree and we went on our way.

InitialDave

8,681 posts

86 months

Thursday 10th June
quotequote all
ScoobyChris said:
I'm not a fan of "TED" (was that coined by Driven on C4 years ago?) which suggests that you don't have comfortable margins for the overtake. If you are exposing yourself to danger, you're doing it wrong wink
No, it's fine to use TED as shorthand for the period of an overtake when you don't have the option to pull back in. It doesn't suggest anything of the sort.

It's just an easier one to turn into an acronym than Period During An Overtake Where You're Directly Alongside What You're Overtaking.

otolith

45,058 posts

171 months

Thursday 10th June
quotequote all
Overtaking on a single carriageway should never be attempted by anyone less than an IAM Road Captain showing the appropriate grille badges.

Tyre Tread

9,670 posts

183 months

Thursday 10th June
quotequote all
otolith said:
Overtaking on a single carriageway should never be attempted by anyone less than an IAM Road Captain showing the appropriate grille badges.
roflroflroflrofl

That's what I thought when I read the OP's post. You just summed it up better that I could have. Thank you

julian64

Original Poster:

13,311 posts

221 months

Friday 11th June
quotequote all
Tyre Tread said:
otolith said:
Overtaking on a single carriageway should never be attempted by anyone less than an IAM Road Captain showing the appropriate grille badges.
roflroflroflrofl

That's what I thought when I read the OP's post. You just summed it up better that I could have. Thank you
Not sure thats accurate. This thread started in general gassing and was moved here by the MODs. I have never posted in advanced driving, as I'm not very ......well..........advanced.

it was an attempt to settle a thread, not declare my ability.

I like to think the mods were worried about the possible threat to their income from crushing a popular type of thread hehe

Tyre Tread

9,670 posts

183 months

Friday 11th June
quotequote all
Julian64 I owe you an apology. It was M4cruiser I quoted earlier who made it sound like only the privileged should be able to overtake.


nonsequitur

18,367 posts

83 months

Friday 11th June
quotequote all
ScoobyChris said:
I overtook a lady yesterday who was doing 20 mph in a 40 zone. I didn’t need to break the speed limit or make the car all noisy to safely complete the manoeuvre and my reward, looking in the mirror, was a round of applause.

I was so chuffed and glowing with pride! biggrin

Chris
i think that was ironic applause.

Tyre Tread

9,670 posts

183 months

Friday 11th June
quotequote all
nonsequitur said:
ScoobyChris said:
I overtook a lady yesterday who was doing 20 mph in a 40 zone. I didn’t need to break the speed limit or make the car all noisy to safely complete the manoeuvre and my reward, looking in the mirror, was a round of applause.

I was so chuffed and glowing with pride! biggrin

Chris
i think that was ironic applause.
Really? We'd never have guessed. Thank you for your informative post. rolleyes

InitialDave

8,681 posts

86 months

Friday 11th June
quotequote all
nonsequitur said:
i think that was ironic applause.
Isn't that an old Daihatsu?