Thread Crush - Overtake
Discussion
ScoobyChris said:
I think it's important to seek co-operation for an overtake as a predictable "target" is much easier to manage. For example, if I move out for a better look and the target speeds up, I know that he's not going to make my life easy.
I'm not a fan of "TED" (was that coined by Driven on C4 years ago?) which suggests that you don't have comfortable margins for the overtake. If you are exposing yourself to danger, you're doing it wrong
Chris
You do it right by ensuring the bit-where-you-can't-escape-back-to-the-nearside is over with before there's any chance of oncoming traffic. TED is just a convenient way of referring to that bit, it doesn't mean you are in danger, just that you would be exposed to danger if danger arose. Knowing your TED is necessary to ensure you have a margin.I'm not a fan of "TED" (was that coined by Driven on C4 years ago?) which suggests that you don't have comfortable margins for the overtake. If you are exposing yourself to danger, you're doing it wrong
Chris
What I don't like is equating TED with time spent on the other side of the road. It encourages people to race up to the rear of the vehicle to be overtaken then swerve out rather than pull out, have a final good look, then accelerate. Being on the offside isn't TED if you can pull back.
Similarly, if overtaking a line of traffic, keeping the speed differential down may mean you spend more time on the offside, but if it allows you to slip back into the line if necessary without any drama you have multiple brief TEDs instead of one long one.
julian64 said:
I suspect unless the unicorn dashcam video actually turns up showing an overtake of a police car, we have stalled at the first hurdle.
I have seen a clip of a safe, within the limit plod overtake (40 in an NSL); The cammer did get a tug - Unfortunately not my clip to share though.Oilchange said:
Too many people doing 45 in a 60, holding lines of traffic up. There often isn't enough road to overtake these muppets without exceeding the limit, especially if you have an idiot that decides that they don't like being overtaken and presses on while you are alongside. Happens a lot.
Get it done then pull in and slow if need be to the limit, is the way I see it.
This is the problem I have. Get it done then pull in and slow if need be to the limit, is the way I see it.
If I'm behind someone doing 45 (more often than not on NSL roads) it's rarely worth the risk/reward of overtaking them, if sticking to the limit.
Most of the time they'll speed up either during or after the overtake, failing that they'll catch back up to me in the next 30 zone or traffic lights.
I complained about the "45 brigade" on Facebook and got told off, "maybe they have a reason", "they're looking for a turning", "they don't know the road", "it's a limit not a target" so I gave up with that.
Yesterday I was on the road from Leek to Macclesfield, it's NSL after Rushton up to Bosley Crossroads. I was behind a Kia doing between 40 and 48ish, with a 20-30 second gap in front of them to another train of cars doing similar speed. So no real point in overtaking.
The guy behind me though didn't see it the same way, he was tailgating me very closely, swerving all over the lane and itching to get past, to the point that as we pulled up at a red at Bosley crossroads, he went into the left (left turn only) lane and undertook both of us. I knew as soon as he went in the left lane what his intentions were, disappointing though as he was in a company Corsa van, so you'd think he'd be a bit more considerate.
Of course, as soon as we got into Macclesfield he hit the school traffic and we caught up to him.
In short, if it's worth an overtake then I would rather exceed the limit briefly to make sure I clear someone, but it's not often that an overtake is actually worthwhile these days unless it's a tractor/cyclist/caravan/horsebox etc as many times they'll just catch you back up.
julian64 said:
Pica-Pica said:
Fastdruid said:
julian64 said:
We need someone who agrees with the MUMSNET sentiments to post dashcam footage of them overtaking a police car. If mumsnet is right then this should be possible, completely legally, without getting pulled over.
I've done this. NSL/60 mph limit, police car and a car in front, both doing ~40mph. Double overtook them. Didn't break the speed limit. Didn't get stopped. No dashcam footage though, sorry.
No dashcam either, I prefer to avoid accidents rather than film them.
ScoobyChris said:
I think it's important to seek co-operation for an overtake as a predictable "target" is much easier to manage. For example, if I move out for a better look and the target speeds up, I know that he's not going to make my life easy.
I'm not a fan of "TED" (was that coined by Driven on C4 years ago?) which suggests that you don't have comfortable margins for the overtake. If you are exposing yourself to danger, you're doing it wrong
Chris
If you want to avoid being exposed to danger on the roads then sit in your car on your driveway and make brum brum noises. I'm not a fan of "TED" (was that coined by Driven on C4 years ago?) which suggests that you don't have comfortable margins for the overtake. If you are exposing yourself to danger, you're doing it wrong
Chris
Seriously, every overtake has a risk attached to it but so does every manoeuvre you make and therefore surely the aim must be to minimise risk while executing the manoeuvre? IF you deem it too risky, that's fine. You can sit with all the other wombles doing 40 in a 60, 40 in a 50, 40 in a 40 and 40 in a 30. Personally, I enjoy having a clear road ahead so I can see ahead (SUVs and commercial vehicles make this difficult), plan ahead and make my own decisions. It has served me well for my 40+ years of driving
Tyre Tread said:
Seriously, every overtake has a risk attached to it but so does every manoeuvre you make and therefore surely the aim must be to minimise risk while executing the manoeuvre?
Agreed, but I don't see "danger" as the same as "risk". If you are being exposed to danger that implies at some point something bad will happen. But anyway, maybe it's just semantics. As Lost Ranger mentions, going faster does not necessarily reduce "TED" and in some cases can have the opposite effect if the plan needs changing.Chris
Tyre Tread said:
M4cruiser said:
Tyre Tread said:
I was always taught to minimise "TED" (Time Exposed to Danger" - Plan it, execute it and get back into lane safely.
Yes, but do you think the average driver is taught that?Find someone who has just passed their driving test and see how much they know about overtaking, or TED.
As an extension of this train of thought: Do you think self-driving cars are being programmed to do this kind of overtake? I think not. It's far too complicated a manoeuvre for a computer to work out when it's safe to do.
To add some debate (I posted this into the AD group of which I'm a member shortly after it happened and had a mixed view). This was an overtake conducted by myself last summer in my wife's car (she was asleep through the whole thing).
https://youtu.be/OUN248rHfnM
I was pulled over shortly afterwards, intention was to pass the car ahead of the police car (which had an earlier start out of the junction/we'd had to wait for a car turning in the opposite direction) on the next long, well sighted straight - it was doing 35 in the NSL's prior. Due to what I was overtaking I did not break the speed limit (but was accused of doing so). We had a discussion and agreed to disagree before carrying on our way.
https://youtu.be/OUN248rHfnM
I was pulled over shortly afterwards, intention was to pass the car ahead of the police car (which had an earlier start out of the junction/we'd had to wait for a car turning in the opposite direction) on the next long, well sighted straight - it was doing 35 in the NSL's prior. Due to what I was overtaking I did not break the speed limit (but was accused of doing so). We had a discussion and agreed to disagree before carrying on our way.
kiethton said:
To add some debate (I posted this into the AD group of which I'm a member shortly after it happened and had a mixed view). This was an overtake conducted by myself last summer in my wife's car (she was asleep through the whole thing).
https://youtu.be/OUN248rHfnM
I was pulled over shortly afterwards, intention was to pass the car ahead of the police car (which had an earlier start out of the junction/we'd had to wait for a car turning in the opposite direction) on the next long, well sighted straight - it was doing 35 in the NSL's prior. Due to what I was overtaking I did not break the speed limit (but was accused of doing so). We had a discussion and agreed to disagree before carrying on our way.
The camera quality makes it very difficult to assess visibility, but I'd say the bend to the left immediately in front of the police car would be more of a concern than your speed.https://youtu.be/OUN248rHfnM
I was pulled over shortly afterwards, intention was to pass the car ahead of the police car (which had an earlier start out of the junction/we'd had to wait for a car turning in the opposite direction) on the next long, well sighted straight - it was doing 35 in the NSL's prior. Due to what I was overtaking I did not break the speed limit (but was accused of doing so). We had a discussion and agreed to disagree before carrying on our way.
Did you get the idea you had injured his pride?
Bennet said:
kiethton said:
To add some debate (I posted this into the AD group of which I'm a member shortly after it happened and had a mixed view). This was an overtake conducted by myself last summer in my wife's car (she was asleep through the whole thing).
https://youtu.be/OUN248rHfnM
I was pulled over shortly afterwards, intention was to pass the car ahead of the police car (which had an earlier start out of the junction/we'd had to wait for a car turning in the opposite direction) on the next long, well sighted straight - it was doing 35 in the NSL's prior. Due to what I was overtaking I did not break the speed limit (but was accused of doing so). We had a discussion and agreed to disagree before carrying on our way.
The camera quality makes it very difficult to assess visibility, but I'd say the bend to the left immediately in front of the police car would be more of a concern than your speed.https://youtu.be/OUN248rHfnM
I was pulled over shortly afterwards, intention was to pass the car ahead of the police car (which had an earlier start out of the junction/we'd had to wait for a car turning in the opposite direction) on the next long, well sighted straight - it was doing 35 in the NSL's prior. Due to what I was overtaking I did not break the speed limit (but was accused of doing so). We had a discussion and agreed to disagree before carrying on our way.
Did you get the idea you had injured his pride?
Very much a pride injured pull "I know you've got more power but didn't have to do that" etc... was rebusffed with as you know you shouldn't be accelerating when being overtaken....neither of us conceded and was finished after 10 minutes of going round in circles with me saying lets agree to disagree and we went on our way.
ScoobyChris said:
I'm not a fan of "TED" (was that coined by Driven on C4 years ago?) which suggests that you don't have comfortable margins for the overtake. If you are exposing yourself to danger, you're doing it wrong
No, it's fine to use TED as shorthand for the period of an overtake when you don't have the option to pull back in. It doesn't suggest anything of the sort.It's just an easier one to turn into an acronym than Period During An Overtake Where You're Directly Alongside What You're Overtaking.
Tyre Tread said:
otolith said:
Overtaking on a single carriageway should never be attempted by anyone less than an IAM Road Captain showing the appropriate grille badges.
That's what I thought when I read the OP's post. You just summed it up better that I could have. Thank you
it was an attempt to settle a thread, not declare my ability.
I like to think the mods were worried about the possible threat to their income from crushing a popular type of thread
ScoobyChris said:
I overtook a lady yesterday who was doing 20 mph in a 40 zone. I didn’t need to break the speed limit or make the car all noisy to safely complete the manoeuvre and my reward, looking in the mirror, was a round of applause.
I was so chuffed and glowing with pride!
Chris
i think that was ironic applause.I was so chuffed and glowing with pride!
Chris
nonsequitur said:
ScoobyChris said:
I overtook a lady yesterday who was doing 20 mph in a 40 zone. I didn’t need to break the speed limit or make the car all noisy to safely complete the manoeuvre and my reward, looking in the mirror, was a round of applause.
I was so chuffed and glowing with pride!
Chris
i think that was ironic applause.I was so chuffed and glowing with pride!
Chris
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