Is overtaking a lost art?
Discussion
Lots of A and B roads round here; I'm constantly amazed by how many drivers will just follow the car in front like sheep (usually leaving too small a gap) and never overtake, missing many perfectly safe opportunities to do so. Then, if the car in front turns off, they will speed up to what is obviously their preferred (and higher) rate of progress.
Also, I cycle quite a bit locally and am staggered by how many drivers really struggle to get past me - wrong gear, wrong moment etc. I often wonder if ab initio driving schools rarely teach overtaking; it may not be part of the driving test and it's impossible to teach if you never leave town but surely it's a vital skill on the open road and drivers needs to know how to execute an overtake properly?
I'm not talking about overtaking on dual carriageways or motorways here - a different topic although skill levels are often sadly lacking on these roads too.
Also, I cycle quite a bit locally and am staggered by how many drivers really struggle to get past me - wrong gear, wrong moment etc. I often wonder if ab initio driving schools rarely teach overtaking; it may not be part of the driving test and it's impossible to teach if you never leave town but surely it's a vital skill on the open road and drivers needs to know how to execute an overtake properly?
I'm not talking about overtaking on dual carriageways or motorways here - a different topic although skill levels are often sadly lacking on these roads too.
I agree, and it’s especially noticeable on a bike, as someone dawdles behind you for miles when they could have easily passed safely several times. They now have a queue of angry drivers behind them all blaming the bike.
They usually eventually pass, in the wrong gear, in the worst location possible.
They usually eventually pass, in the wrong gear, in the worst location possible.
I didn't learn how to overtake vehicles properly until IAM. Before that, I did do it a bit, especially when forced, but it was sloppy and I grimace thinking about some of them. It's just not taught, often performed badly, and there's an element of not-the-done-thing amongst the public as a result.
My daughter has recently learned to drive (in London, admittedly). She was taught -kinda - how to pass a bike, but not any other form of overtaking.
I wasn't taught either - my Dad gave me a few overtaking lessons once I had passed my test. It would be sensible to teach learners, but not always easy depending on location and availability of safe opportunities to practice, I guess.
I wasn't taught either - my Dad gave me a few overtaking lessons once I had passed my test. It would be sensible to teach learners, but not always easy depending on location and availability of safe opportunities to practice, I guess.
). That said given the driving 'standards' I wouldn't be surprised 
I definitely don't overtake as much as I used to. Years ago(early to mid 1990's) I'd overtake everything that was in front of me without fail, whereas now it is a lot more difficult to do because of the traffic volume. So 9 times out of 10 I'll usually just sit behind cars taking it easy.
I don't have any time for cyclists though(I used to be one myself years ago), and cyclists nowadays seem to just be out there to deliberately piss the drivers of cars off from what I see now. I always used to ride single breast to try to make it as easy as possible to pass me, whereas now I see cyclists riding 3 or 4 abreast without any consideration as to what is going on behind them. It boils my piss.
I don't have any time for cyclists though(I used to be one myself years ago), and cyclists nowadays seem to just be out there to deliberately piss the drivers of cars off from what I see now. I always used to ride single breast to try to make it as easy as possible to pass me, whereas now I see cyclists riding 3 or 4 abreast without any consideration as to what is going on behind them. It boils my piss.
Despite the prevalence of words such as "angry", "frustrated" and the like being used on motoring forums, I don't believe most folk are actually in that much of a hurry. Yes, folk like to throw their arms up and shout and appear as if every second of their life has to follow some urgent plan... but, an awful lot of us will just wait until we feel that the risks* involved with passing the slow vehicle in front have lessened to an acceptable level, or given the short distances that tractors tend to cover, the obstacle will turn off and no overtaking will be needed.
I drive quite a few older/slower vehicles and always try to leave plenty of room for a passing car to overtake (I also pull over if I'm causing a queue). However, many will sit on the back bumper, flash their lights etc., but aren't really that fussed or they'd have overtaken rather than try to push me along... presumably, so they can post on forums about being held up by some old fart in an old van.
That said, I often find my progress slowed by drivers of moderns, at which point, I'll generally sit behind them...
I am perfectly capable of overtaking when needed.
I drive quite a few older/slower vehicles and always try to leave plenty of room for a passing car to overtake (I also pull over if I'm causing a queue). However, many will sit on the back bumper, flash their lights etc., but aren't really that fussed or they'd have overtaken rather than try to push me along... presumably, so they can post on forums about being held up by some old fart in an old van.
That said, I often find my progress slowed by drivers of moderns, at which point, I'll generally sit behind them...
I am perfectly capable of overtaking when needed.
- Either real or imagined, many would argue that overtaking is one of the most dangerous manoeuvres you might carry out. Most of us have had no instruction on how to do so safely.
spoodler said:
Despite the prevalence of words such as "angry", "frustrated" and the like being used on motoring forums, I don't believe most folk are actually in that much of a hurry. Yes, folk like to throw their arms up and shout and appear as if every second of their life has to follow some urgent plan... but, an awful lot of us will just wait until we feel that the risks* involved with passing the slow vehicle in front have lessened to an acceptable level, or given the short distances that tractors tend to cover, the obstacle will turn off and no overtaking will be needed.
I drive quite a few older/slower vehicles and always try to leave plenty of room for a passing car to overtake (I also pull over if I'm causing a queue). However, many will sit on the back bumper, flash their lights etc., but aren't really that fussed or they'd have overtaken rather than try to push me along... presumably, so they can post on forums about being held up by some old fart in an old van.
That said, I often find my progress slowed by drivers of moderns, at which point, I'll generally sit behind them...
I am perfectly capable of overtaking when needed.
This 'not in that much of a hurry' argument keeps cropping up on these threads and I don't understand it.I drive quite a few older/slower vehicles and always try to leave plenty of room for a passing car to overtake (I also pull over if I'm causing a queue). However, many will sit on the back bumper, flash their lights etc., but aren't really that fussed or they'd have overtaken rather than try to push me along... presumably, so they can post on forums about being held up by some old fart in an old van.
That said, I often find my progress slowed by drivers of moderns, at which point, I'll generally sit behind them...
I am perfectly capable of overtaking when needed.
- Either real or imagined, many would argue that overtaking is one of the most dangerous manoeuvres you might carry out. Most of us have had no instruction on how to do so safely.
If you caught up with the other vehicle then your desired speed is higher than theirs so why not take an opportunity to resume it if it presents itself?
Obviously you wait until a safe opportunity presents itself, but the question is what do you do then?
Obviously poor overtaking is dangerous, so is poor sitting behind, tailgating ETC.
If you can maintain the same level of concentration when sitting contentedly in a queue as when looking for the next overtake then good for you, but why is this any easier than being prepared to take that overtake?
The other issue is that even if you're not in a hurry, someone else might be, by forming a convoy you are making their overtake more difficult.
Overtaking rarely saves any significant journey time, I find. Quite often the overtaken vehicle will catch up at the next delay where they're probably wondering what the point was. But there is a point, which is to be able to drive my own drive on my terms rather than being subject to whatever the vehicle in front is doing.
It definitely improves my journey time.
I've been honing my overtaking skills these past few years thanks to the amount of numbnuts that now dawdle at 17 mph even in 30s and 40s around London.
No fire breathing mega bhp monster either, just a 3cyl 1.0 Dacia Duster.
What I am seeing in the 20mph zones are driver's eventually going to overtake cyclists but refusing to break 20 even for a brief spurt just to safely get past.
So you get a mini elephant racing event that causes oncoming traffic to stop or swerve.
Motorists these days seem bereft of commonsense.
I've been honing my overtaking skills these past few years thanks to the amount of numbnuts that now dawdle at 17 mph even in 30s and 40s around London.
No fire breathing mega bhp monster either, just a 3cyl 1.0 Dacia Duster.
What I am seeing in the 20mph zones are driver's eventually going to overtake cyclists but refusing to break 20 even for a brief spurt just to safely get past.
So you get a mini elephant racing event that causes oncoming traffic to stop or swerve.
Motorists these days seem bereft of commonsense.
Dr Jekyll said:
spoodler said:
Despite the prevalence of words such as "angry", "frustrated" and the like being used on motoring forums, I don't believe most folk are actually in that much of a hurry. Yes, folk like to throw their arms up and shout and appear as if every second of their life has to follow some urgent plan... but, an awful lot of us will just wait until we feel that the risks* involved with passing the slow vehicle in front have lessened to an acceptable level, or given the short distances that tractors tend to cover, the obstacle will turn off and no overtaking will be needed.
I drive quite a few older/slower vehicles and always try to leave plenty of room for a passing car to overtake (I also pull over if I'm causing a queue). However, many will sit on the back bumper, flash their lights etc., but aren't really that fussed or they'd have overtaken rather than try to push me along... presumably, so they can post on forums about being held up by some old fart in an old van.
That said, I often find my progress slowed by drivers of moderns, at which point, I'll generally sit behind them...
I am perfectly capable of overtaking when needed.
This 'not in that much of a hurry' argument keeps cropping up on these threads and I don't understand it.I drive quite a few older/slower vehicles and always try to leave plenty of room for a passing car to overtake (I also pull over if I'm causing a queue). However, many will sit on the back bumper, flash their lights etc., but aren't really that fussed or they'd have overtaken rather than try to push me along... presumably, so they can post on forums about being held up by some old fart in an old van.
That said, I often find my progress slowed by drivers of moderns, at which point, I'll generally sit behind them...
I am perfectly capable of overtaking when needed.
- Either real or imagined, many would argue that overtaking is one of the most dangerous manoeuvres you might carry out. Most of us have had no instruction on how to do so safely.
If you caught up with the other vehicle then your desired speed is higher than theirs so why not take an opportunity to resume it if it presents itself?
Obviously you wait until a safe opportunity presents itself, but the question is what do you do then?
Obviously poor overtaking is dangerous, so is poor sitting behind, tailgating ETC.
If you can maintain the same level of concentration when sitting contentedly in a queue as when looking for the next overtake then good for you, but why is this any easier than being prepared to take that overtake?
The other issue is that even if you're not in a hurry, someone else might be, by forming a convoy you are making their overtake more difficult.
As for being prepared to overtake, I am prepared should the opportunity arise, but I'll compare the risk and reward first... Is the risk of overtaking worth the reward of passing the car in front just to sit behind the next slow vehicle? If I'm on my bike, very likely it's worth doing as overtaking is so easy on a bike. In an old classic van, slower car etc. overtaking just adds stress to what should be an enjoyable experience and will likely do very little to shorten the journey time.
As for concerning myself with whether or not another driver is "in a hurry"... really? Not my problem, I won't deliberately impede their progress, and as said above, I'll pull over if needs be and try and make life easy for them, but otherwise that's their personal problem to solve in their own way.
Returning to the original question of overtaking being a lost art... I believe it's probably going that way. Folk concentrating on not breaking speed limits (as any speed is dangerous, don't ya know?), paranoia regarding fuel consumption,and many who will still overtake seem to rely purely on their cars horsepower and brakes rather than learning how to do this properly.
croyde said:
It definitely improves my journey time.
I've been honing my overtaking skills these past few years thanks to the amount of numbnuts that now dawdle at 17 mph even in 30s and 40s around London.
No fire breathing mega bhp monster either, just a 3cyl 1.0 Dacia Duster.
What I am seeing in the 20mph zones are driver's eventually going to overtake cyclists but refusing to break 20 even for a brief spurt just to safely get past.
So you get a mini elephant racing event that causes oncoming traffic to stop or swerve.
Motorists these days seem bereft of commonsense.
The issue being that 'elephant racing' is positively encouraged by the rigid adherence to speed limits demanded by the powers thst be. For them there is NO excuse I've been honing my overtaking skills these past few years thanks to the amount of numbnuts that now dawdle at 17 mph even in 30s and 40s around London.
No fire breathing mega bhp monster either, just a 3cyl 1.0 Dacia Duster.
What I am seeing in the 20mph zones are driver's eventually going to overtake cyclists but refusing to break 20 even for a brief spurt just to safely get past.
So you get a mini elephant racing event that causes oncoming traffic to stop or swerve.
Motorists these days seem bereft of commonsense.
I used to overtake at every given opportunity but these days, not so much…
I used to be 17 - At that age, driving a classic Mini and living in North Wales, I took great pleasure in taking corners at maximum speed and I used to get frustrated by drivers of faster cars that dawdled around the bends but then accelerated away from me on the straights. I knew the roads well and would even slow down deliberately if I was stuck in this situation to give myself space to floor it if I knew a particularly interesting series of turns was coming up.
I’m now 50, living in a more congested part of the UK with fewer interesting roads that I drive routinely/know well. I am much less frequently in the car on my own and whilst I’ll still happily overtake vehicles doing less than say 2/3rds of my desired speed, it’s a balance between the benefit of overtaking and the grief from the passenger seat…
Even when I’m back in North Wales, on my own, on a road I know well, I overtake less than I used to. The chances that one or two quick overtakes will open up 10 miles of empty road in front no longer exist. Traffic is heavier so there’s less chance of saving much time and to be honest, a combination of my age and more isolating modern cars mean that I don’t have the same desire to go quickly, just for the sensation/involvement of going quickly.
That said, I still remember when I was 17… If I’m not planning to overtake a car in front I make it as easy as possible for anyone that wants to overtake me. I’ll leave a massive/obvious gap to the car in front rather than cause a sausage of nose to tail traffic with no space to pull in if it can’t be passed in one go and if I find a youth in an underpowered car catching me round the bends I’ll avoid accelerating away on the next straight and give them the chance to pass safely.
I used to be 17 - At that age, driving a classic Mini and living in North Wales, I took great pleasure in taking corners at maximum speed and I used to get frustrated by drivers of faster cars that dawdled around the bends but then accelerated away from me on the straights. I knew the roads well and would even slow down deliberately if I was stuck in this situation to give myself space to floor it if I knew a particularly interesting series of turns was coming up.
I’m now 50, living in a more congested part of the UK with fewer interesting roads that I drive routinely/know well. I am much less frequently in the car on my own and whilst I’ll still happily overtake vehicles doing less than say 2/3rds of my desired speed, it’s a balance between the benefit of overtaking and the grief from the passenger seat…
Even when I’m back in North Wales, on my own, on a road I know well, I overtake less than I used to. The chances that one or two quick overtakes will open up 10 miles of empty road in front no longer exist. Traffic is heavier so there’s less chance of saving much time and to be honest, a combination of my age and more isolating modern cars mean that I don’t have the same desire to go quickly, just for the sensation/involvement of going quickly.
That said, I still remember when I was 17… If I’m not planning to overtake a car in front I make it as easy as possible for anyone that wants to overtake me. I’ll leave a massive/obvious gap to the car in front rather than cause a sausage of nose to tail traffic with no space to pull in if it can’t be passed in one go and if I find a youth in an underpowered car catching me round the bends I’ll avoid accelerating away on the next straight and give them the chance to pass safely.
runnerbean 14 said:
I often wonder if ab initio driving schools rarely teach overtaking; it may not be part of the driving test and it's impossible to teach if you never leave town but surely it's a vital skill on the open road and drivers needs to know how to execute an overtake properly?
Puzzles said:
People seems to get angry if someone overtakes on a single lane road.
No, honestly, they'll be fine with little Jonny zipping past in his instructor's roof box clad Corsa 
Not sure there's much point overtaking on busy UK roads as you will just get to the next queue faster so the saving will be typically measured in seconds.
Now in NZ where I live now and the roads are quiet, overtaking the odd dawdler is simple and leads to fast open sweeping roads which are a pleasure to drive.
Now in NZ where I live now and the roads are quiet, overtaking the odd dawdler is simple and leads to fast open sweeping roads which are a pleasure to drive.
otolith said:
Those tossers at Brake were telling people not long ago that overtaking was dangerous and should be avoided.
I do think that it’s an important skill which should be taught to learners, perhaps with the cooperation of another learner.
I would say that overtaking IS more dangerous than the alternative.I do think that it’s an important skill which should be taught to learners, perhaps with the cooperation of another learner.
But it's a valuable part of driving skill and experience, and of course should be taught. In flying the most dangerous things are taught and practiced over and over again, in order that when it occurs, it won't kill you.
Flying has a lot to teach driver training.
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