How can i make myself a safer driver?
Discussion
Does anyone else see the irony of two having two very powerful cars costing well in excess of fifty thousand pounds and then not wanting to spend more than ten quid on learning how to use them more safely or is it just me?
A proper advanced driving course will save money as well as stress and your new offspring's delicate neck muscles in the first few months of their life. If your partner's peace of mind and your child's health isn't worth the cost of a course when you seem to have what, for many, is an abundance of money it seems that you are not that committed to becoming a better and safer driver.
A proper advanced driving course will save money as well as stress and your new offspring's delicate neck muscles in the first few months of their life. If your partner's peace of mind and your child's health isn't worth the cost of a course when you seem to have what, for many, is an abundance of money it seems that you are not that committed to becoming a better and safer driver.
TheKeyboardDemon said:
Don said:
Beats me why - I've thought that people with points are going to come to the IAM wanting to learn how to avoid getting any more by being a good driver and it seems a shame not to let 'em go all the way. But there you go.
I would have thought that if a trainee wanted to learn a new skill they would go to the most qualified person, so at first it doesn't make sense that you can't teach when you have points. However as a trainee I would have more confidence in an instructor with a clean licence then 1 who is 3 points away from a ban, they might both be giving me the same level of tuition yet I'd still be thinking what can they teach me? As an instructor it is better to teach through example and what better example could there be than keeping a clean licence. Also insurance premiums drop when passing with IAM/RoSPA as insurance companies know that an advanced driver reduces the risk of an incident by about 70% or more.
Just recieved word from HQ.
8pts or more and a "normal" driver - cannot take Advanced Test.
3pts or more and a "new young" driver - cannot take Advanced Test.
Apparently the reasoning is that if you get any more points you will be banned under totting up and the combination of Banned and IAM Member is "problematic".
Martin a said:
Does anyone else see the irony of two having two very powerful cars costing well in excess of fifty thousand pounds and then not wanting to spend more than ten quid on learning how to use them more safely or is it just me?
A proper advanced driving course will save money as well as stress and your new offspring's delicate neck muscles in the first few months of their life. If your partner's peace of mind and your child's health isn't worth the cost of a course when you seem to have what, for many, is an abundance of money it seems that you are not that committed to becoming a better and safer driver.
A proper advanced driving course will save money as well as stress and your new offspring's delicate neck muscles in the first few months of their life. If your partner's peace of mind and your child's health isn't worth the cost of a course when you seem to have what, for many, is an abundance of money it seems that you are not that committed to becoming a better and safer driver.
Couldn't agree more. That scenario smacks of "all the gear and no idea"!
I will say that, despite being an IAM member/Observer and a holder of a Rospa RoADA Gold award I do NOT think that this is the only way to be a good safe "advanced" driver. But both of 'em are a good way...IYSWIM.
Don said:
Martin a said:
Does anyone else see the irony of two having two very powerful cars costing well in excess of fifty thousand pounds and then not wanting to spend more than ten quid on learning how to use them more safely or is it just me?
A proper advanced driving course will save money as well as stress and your new offspring's delicate neck muscles in the first few months of their life. If your partner's peace of mind and your child's health isn't worth the cost of a course when you seem to have what, for many, is an abundance of money it seems that you are not that committed to becoming a better and safer driver.
A proper advanced driving course will save money as well as stress and your new offspring's delicate neck muscles in the first few months of their life. If your partner's peace of mind and your child's health isn't worth the cost of a course when you seem to have what, for many, is an abundance of money it seems that you are not that committed to becoming a better and safer driver.
Couldn't agree more. That scenario smacks of "all the gear and no idea"!
I will say that, despite being an IAM member/Observer and a holder of a Rospa RoADA Gold award I do NOT think that this is the only way to be a good safe "advanced" driver. But both of 'em are a good way...IYSWIM.
is this irony aimed at myself?
Rochester BMW said:
is this irony aimed at myself?
Not at all. Just a comment on that particular scenario.
If you go out and buy yourself a Ferrari at £XXX,XXX - why on earth wouldn't you spend £X,XXX on learning to drive it? Many supercars come with training courses paid for by the manufacturer for the precise reason that dealing with their capabilities is often a stretch for someone who hasn't driven something as potent before.
These days more and more cars are now what would have been defined as "supercars" only ten or fifteen years ago - hence the need for their owners to get additional training.
IMO the electronic gizmos now fitted to these "new supercars" (frankly - most 'performance' cars of today) are no substitute.
right 'Martin A', in defence to that...
Firstly I don't have 2 cars costing well in excess of fifty thousand pounds each... my 335i cost me £36k and the at the moment I don't actually own an M3 I just have one on order.....
Secondly the reason I can afford such cars is because I work very hard for my living and therefore at the moment cannot justify taking time out of work to go out on advanced driving lessons! I do appreciate that my I could learn from professional drivers which is why im here trying to do so...
It is not a matter of not wanting to spend more than £10 on improving my driving, never once did I say that! If I were to take a day off to attend an advanced driving lesson / course / test it would not only cost me the price of that service but also hundreds of pounds from me not being at work! Which is why I asked the question, how can I become a safer driver without going down the expensive route of training.
And lastly 'martin a' what the bloody hell has it got to do with you how much of my money I decide to spend on advanced driving?
Why on earth should I justify myself to some stranger on a website about my finances!
Why is this website becoming somewhere that more and more people are picking holes in peoples questions and / or situations rather than being a source of helpful information...
Its ridiculous!
Firstly I don't have 2 cars costing well in excess of fifty thousand pounds each... my 335i cost me £36k and the at the moment I don't actually own an M3 I just have one on order.....
Secondly the reason I can afford such cars is because I work very hard for my living and therefore at the moment cannot justify taking time out of work to go out on advanced driving lessons! I do appreciate that my I could learn from professional drivers which is why im here trying to do so...
It is not a matter of not wanting to spend more than £10 on improving my driving, never once did I say that! If I were to take a day off to attend an advanced driving lesson / course / test it would not only cost me the price of that service but also hundreds of pounds from me not being at work! Which is why I asked the question, how can I become a safer driver without going down the expensive route of training.
And lastly 'martin a' what the bloody hell has it got to do with you how much of my money I decide to spend on advanced driving?
Why on earth should I justify myself to some stranger on a website about my finances!
Why is this website becoming somewhere that more and more people are picking holes in peoples questions and / or situations rather than being a source of helpful information...
Its ridiculous!
Rochester BMW said:
right 'Martin A', in defence to that...
Firstly I don't have 2 cars costing well in excess of fifty thousand pounds each... my 335i cost me £36k and the at the moment I don't actually own an M3 I just have one on order.....
Secondly the reason I can afford such cars is because I work very hard for my living and therefore at the moment cannot justify taking time out of work to go out on advanced driving lessons! I do appreciate that my I could learn from professional drivers which is why im here trying to do so...
It is not a matter of not wanting to spend more than £10 on improving my driving, never once did I say that! If I were to take a day off to attend an advanced driving lesson / course / test it would not only cost me the price of that service but also hundreds of pounds from me not being at work! Which is why I asked the question, how can I become a safer driver without going down the expensive route of training.
And lastly 'martin a' what the bloody hell has it got to do with you how much of my money I decide to spend on advanced driving?
Why on earth should I justify myself to some stranger on a website about my finances!
Why is this website becoming somewhere that more and more people are picking holes in peoples questions and / or situations rather than being a source of helpful information...
Its ridiculous!
Given that you have already put forward a question looking for ways in which you can raise your safety awareness I would have assumed that comments talking about the irony of buying expensive cars and then not investing money into improving driving wouldn't have applied to you. However there are ppl out there who feel that just by virtue of buying a more expensive car topped with electronic driver aids and all the skills and knowledge they needed to get their driving licence are not the ones who need to take advanced lessons, usually ppl like these are ppl who go through regular near misses and close scrapes which they would usually blame on other drivers whilst they are always faultless. Firstly I don't have 2 cars costing well in excess of fifty thousand pounds each... my 335i cost me £36k and the at the moment I don't actually own an M3 I just have one on order.....
Secondly the reason I can afford such cars is because I work very hard for my living and therefore at the moment cannot justify taking time out of work to go out on advanced driving lessons! I do appreciate that my I could learn from professional drivers which is why im here trying to do so...
It is not a matter of not wanting to spend more than £10 on improving my driving, never once did I say that! If I were to take a day off to attend an advanced driving lesson / course / test it would not only cost me the price of that service but also hundreds of pounds from me not being at work! Which is why I asked the question, how can I become a safer driver without going down the expensive route of training.
And lastly 'martin a' what the bloody hell has it got to do with you how much of my money I decide to spend on advanced driving?
Why on earth should I justify myself to some stranger on a website about my finances!
Why is this website becoming somewhere that more and more people are picking holes in peoples questions and / or situations rather than being a source of helpful information...
Its ridiculous!
In your post quoted above you talk about your job, and from your description it sounds like you're really good at your job and earn a good living as a result of that. I'm sure though that you don't just rely on your existing skills and knowledge to maintain your present level of income, in fact for most working ppl there tends to be a process of constant improvment, then evaluation followed by some mentoring and yet more improvement. Many jobs require improvements to be demonstrated before annual pay awards/rises are given, meaning that for anyone to reach the peak of their profession they would have to undergo a continous education process.
You will find that learning to increase your levels of safety awareness is no different to this process of ongoing continous education, books like Road Craft may be of help, however ultimately it's time behind the wheel with someone who can observe, guide and assist that learning process that will truly benefit any person who wants to see the improvements your were asking about. This is the very reason I want to join IAM/RoSPA, I'm sure there are areas I can improve in, I just feel that without a properly trained instructor/observer to point them out to me I could end up finding out what those areas are the hard way. At the end of the day if it's really important to you you'll get the book and read it, follow the lessons and learn from those, and then find ways to make the time to get an observer in with you. On average most ppl need about 5 observed drives before they are up to a test standard, that's around 7.5 hours spread over 5 to 10 weeks, so it's not even a day off work it's potentially fitting it around your busy schedule at a mutually convenient time for you and your observer then working on some action points on your own while you drive to and from work until your next observed drive.
I agree that Roadcraft (or any other book) is most valuable in conjunction with a course in which you are shown what it all actually means.
Did someone else already mention that for the money rich/time poor brigade, you would get best value from your time by going to a professional coach rather than to either IAM or Rospa? Consider someone like Hugh Noblett of Cadence Driver Development - 19 years an instructor at the police driving school at Hendon, demonstrates his enthusiasm by owning a Caterham and with a reputation as a great coach. I understand the reluctance to lose a day's money, but you would get much better value out of the new M3 afterwards (I have one on order too) and maybe you could do it on a Saturday??
But one day would be the end of the beginning of a lifetime of improving your driving, rather than the beginning of the end.
Did someone else already mention that for the money rich/time poor brigade, you would get best value from your time by going to a professional coach rather than to either IAM or Rospa? Consider someone like Hugh Noblett of Cadence Driver Development - 19 years an instructor at the police driving school at Hendon, demonstrates his enthusiasm by owning a Caterham and with a reputation as a great coach. I understand the reluctance to lose a day's money, but you would get much better value out of the new M3 afterwards (I have one on order too) and maybe you could do it on a Saturday??
But one day would be the end of the beginning of a lifetime of improving your driving, rather than the beginning of the end.
Rochester BMW said:
right 'Martin A', in defence to that...
Firstly I don't have 2 cars costing well in excess of fifty thousand pounds each... my 335i cost me £36k and the at the moment I don't actually own an M3 I just have one on order.....
Secondly the reason I can afford such cars is because I work very hard for my living and therefore at the moment cannot justify taking time out of work to go out on advanced driving lessons! I do appreciate that my I could learn from professional drivers which is why im here trying to do so...
It is not a matter of not wanting to spend more than £10 on improving my driving, never once did I say that! If I were to take a day off to attend an advanced driving lesson / course / test it would not only cost me the price of that service but also hundreds of pounds from me not being at work! Which is why I asked the question, how can I become a safer driver without going down the expensive route of training.
And lastly 'martin a' what the bloody hell has it got to do with you how much of my money I decide to spend on advanced driving?
Why on earth should I justify myself to some stranger on a website about my finances!
Why is this website becoming somewhere that more and more people are picking holes in peoples questions and / or situations rather than being a source of helpful information...
Its ridiculous!
Firstly I don't have 2 cars costing well in excess of fifty thousand pounds each... my 335i cost me £36k and the at the moment I don't actually own an M3 I just have one on order.....
Secondly the reason I can afford such cars is because I work very hard for my living and therefore at the moment cannot justify taking time out of work to go out on advanced driving lessons! I do appreciate that my I could learn from professional drivers which is why im here trying to do so...
It is not a matter of not wanting to spend more than £10 on improving my driving, never once did I say that! If I were to take a day off to attend an advanced driving lesson / course / test it would not only cost me the price of that service but also hundreds of pounds from me not being at work! Which is why I asked the question, how can I become a safer driver without going down the expensive route of training.
And lastly 'martin a' what the bloody hell has it got to do with you how much of my money I decide to spend on advanced driving?
Why on earth should I justify myself to some stranger on a website about my finances!
Why is this website becoming somewhere that more and more people are picking holes in peoples questions and / or situations rather than being a source of helpful information...
Its ridiculous!
there are "tip offs" on the ride drive web site they are being re-written at present but you could email julian about them
just a suggestion
Rochester BMW said:
right 'Martin A', in defence to that...
Firstly I don't have 2 cars costing well in excess of fifty thousand pounds each... my 335i cost me £36k and the at the moment I don't actually own an M3 I just have one on order.....
Secondly the reason I can afford such cars is because I work very hard for my living and therefore at the moment cannot justify taking time out of work to go out on advanced driving lessons! I do appreciate that my I could learn from professional drivers which is why im here trying to do so...
It is not a matter of not wanting to spend more than £10 on improving my driving, never once did I say that! If I were to take a day off to attend an advanced driving lesson / course / test it would not only cost me the price of that service but also hundreds of pounds from me not being at work! Which is why I asked the question, how can I become a safer driver without going down the expensive route of training.
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Rochester, your'e obviously someone who has a real desire to establish your existing skills level. With an M3 on order, terrific. I'm sure you will only benefit from one of these courses. you've already taken the first step by posting here. I really want to do this too. I'm 61, been driving for 43 years, think I'm pretty good, but. How can I be? I passed my test in 1964, and since then I've had no one who could sit along side me and give me objective criticism / advice. Looking for a IAM or ROSPA now, but Aberdeen seems to be a black hole regarding Advanced driving. Last time the IAM site here was updated was 2005. And Grampian has one of the worst fatal accident records in the UK.
To Grampians great credit though, the Pass Plus scheme for young drivers is being part funded up here by the Scottish Executive and seems to be being embraced by young drivers who have just passed their tests. Be nice to think that the kids who go through this will always be working on their skills.
And lastly 'martin a' what the bloody hell has it got to do with you how much of my money I decide to spend on advanced driving?
Why on earth should I justify myself to some stranger on a website about my finances!
Why is this website becoming somewhere that more and more people are picking holes in peoples questions and / or situations rather than being a source of helpful information...
Its ridiculous!
Firstly I don't have 2 cars costing well in excess of fifty thousand pounds each... my 335i cost me £36k and the at the moment I don't actually own an M3 I just have one on order.....
Secondly the reason I can afford such cars is because I work very hard for my living and therefore at the moment cannot justify taking time out of work to go out on advanced driving lessons! I do appreciate that my I could learn from professional drivers which is why im here trying to do so...
It is not a matter of not wanting to spend more than £10 on improving my driving, never once did I say that! If I were to take a day off to attend an advanced driving lesson / course / test it would not only cost me the price of that service but also hundreds of pounds from me not being at work! Which is why I asked the question, how can I become a safer driver without going down the expensive route of training.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rochester, your'e obviously someone who has a real desire to establish your existing skills level. With an M3 on order, terrific. I'm sure you will only benefit from one of these courses. you've already taken the first step by posting here. I really want to do this too. I'm 61, been driving for 43 years, think I'm pretty good, but. How can I be? I passed my test in 1964, and since then I've had no one who could sit along side me and give me objective criticism / advice. Looking for a IAM or ROSPA now, but Aberdeen seems to be a black hole regarding Advanced driving. Last time the IAM site here was updated was 2005. And Grampian has one of the worst fatal accident records in the UK.
To Grampians great credit though, the Pass Plus scheme for young drivers is being part funded up here by the Scottish Executive and seems to be being embraced by young drivers who have just passed their tests. Be nice to think that the kids who go through this will always be working on their skills.
And lastly 'martin a' what the bloody hell has it got to do with you how much of my money I decide to spend on advanced driving?
Why on earth should I justify myself to some stranger on a website about my finances!
Why is this website becoming somewhere that more and more people are picking holes in peoples questions and / or situations rather than being a source of helpful information...
Its ridiculous!
Edited by Hemibum on Wednesday 21st March 01:58
Edited by Hemibum on Wednesday 21st March 01:59
Don said:
Martin a said:
Does anyone else see the irony of two having two very powerful cars costing well in excess of fifty thousand pounds and then not wanting to spend more than ten quid on learning how to use them more safely or is it just me?
A proper advanced driving course will save money as well as stress and your new offspring's delicate neck muscles in the first few months of their life. If your partner's peace of mind and your child's health isn't worth the cost of a course when you seem to have what, for many, is an abundance of money it seems that you are not that committed to becoming a better and safer driver.
A proper advanced driving course will save money as well as stress and your new offspring's delicate neck muscles in the first few months of their life. If your partner's peace of mind and your child's health isn't worth the cost of a course when you seem to have what, for many, is an abundance of money it seems that you are not that committed to becoming a better and safer driver.
Couldn't agree more. That scenario smacks of "all the gear and no idea"!
I will say that, despite being an IAM member/Observer and a holder of a Rospa RoADA Gold award I do NOT think that this is the only way to be a good safe "advanced" driver. But both of 'em are a good way...IYSWIM.
What else do you also suggest can also be of benefit to drivers?
Do both the IAM and ROSPA courses only cover visual awareness/road condition perception, or do they also include elements of vehicle control in poor conditions, at high speeds and so on.
Do these courses offer tutoring on elements of "advanced driving techniques" - is that the correct expression? - left foot braking, heel-toeing etc
Many thanks,
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