New Rover Heads

New Rover Heads

Author
Discussion

rev-erend

20,648 posts

244 months

Thursday 5th July 2012
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Why not just go to 5.0 or 5.3 !

Mr Supercharged

486 posts

117 months

Thursday 5th July 2012
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MPoxon said:
This is exactly the spec I am working towards... IMO it is cracking combination of reliable best of breed upgrades. The only difference with my plan is the ACT Twin CF Plenum instead of Triple and the ACT Replica OEM manifolds instead of the tuned (purely as a prefer the look of the twin and OEM manifolds) I was thinking adding Omex 200 for mapped spark to complement the MA chip but keeping the dizzy so it still looks fairly standard. 350ft/lb is a great result.... especially when you consider you will have exchanged a few torques for higher revving BHP with the stealth cam.
You could do this but if you are handy with your car have you considered fitting a Canems System with a John Eales trigger wheel on the front. I run an Omex 600 on my Westfield and it is very good but IMO the Canems system looks to give everything most people would want at a fraction of the cost of a full blown 710, all in for about £900 (including the JE Trigger Wheel setup) if you do it yourself. You then have a system that if modified later can be done at any rolling road rather than relying upon 14CUX tuners. By using an Omex 200 you will end up with 2 ECUs which need tuning individually and 2 ECUs to go wrong. David, the designer of Canems is upgrading it to control the stepper motor. The John Eales trigger wheel and sensor bracket looks OEM on the engine. Maybe worth a look? One of the reasons why the Canems system is so cost competitive is because they wrote their own software, Omex have to pay a license fee for each ECU to GEMS who wrote theirs. Additionally, if you are running that much power your AFM won't cope, it will max out at 5 volts signal, so you could fit a bigger one but this adds more complication and still leaves you with a restriction to air flow. Best best, get rid of it altogether and run a MAP sensor. This makes for a very tidy engine bay with less visible wiring and hardware IMO...... Have fun, thanks...

Edited by Mr Supercharged on Thursday 5th July 18:23

MPoxon

5,277 posts

133 months

Thursday 5th July 2012
quotequote all
Mr Supercharged said:
You could do this but if you are handy with your car have you considered fitting a Canems System with a John Eales trigger wheel on the front. I run an Omex 600 on my Westfield and it is very good but IMO the Canems system looks to give everything most people would want at a fraction of the cost of a full blown 710, all in for about £900 (including the JE Trigger Wheel setup) if you do it yourself. You then have a system that if modified later can be done at any rolling road rather than relying upon 14CUX tuners. By using an Omex 200 you will end up with 2 ECUs which need tuning individually and 2 ECUs to go wrong. David, the designer of Canems is upgrading it to control the stepper motor. The John Eales trigger wheel and sensor bracket looks OEM on the engine. Maybe worth a look? One of the reasons why the Canems system is so cost competitive is because they wrote their own software, Omex have to pay a license fee for each ECU to GEMS who wrote theirs. Additionally, if you are running that much power your AFM won't cope, it will max out at 5 volts signal, so you could fit a bigger one but this adds more complication and still leaves you with a restriction to air flow. Best best, get rid of it altogether and run a MAP sensor. This makes for a very tidy engine bay with less visible wiring and hardware IMO...... Have fun, thanks...
I will have a look at the Canems system, thanks for the recommendation. I am pretty useless with DIY so I would be looking to get a 3rd party to fit whichever ECU I decide upon. I have already invested in a Mark Adams Tornado EPROM which naturally leads me down the Omex 200 to supplement the 14CUX but I will be doing some extensive research before I make my mind up. I agree that is is not ideal having to ECUs to map but if the Omex fails you can simply reconnect the igniition amp and away you go.

As part of the Tornado setup Mark recommends the Bosch AFM as you are right the standard Lucas one maxes out and it restrictive. The Bosch AFM allows you to enjoy all the benefits of an AFM whilst not being restrictive.

Do you know if Canems supports switchable maps via a dash mounted switch like Emerald. Always fancied having a map for normal driving and a map for showboating with lots of pops and bangs, flames etc buy retarding the igniition on the overrun.


Mr Supercharged

486 posts

117 months

Thursday 5th July 2012
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I think they do. The full spec of the ECU is on their web site but please check:

www.canems.co.uk/catalog/index.php?main_page=produ...

If you wait until the end of the winter time this year / early next I will have fitted one of these on mine and will post a how to do it guide on here. Otherwise you can go to Lloyds Specialist Developments who fit these routinely to TVRs. It's about £1800 to fit and road tune, an extra £200 to rolling road tune from memory. Check their web site out. I went to see them, they are 2 very competent and enthusiastic chaps who know the system very well!

I used to own a MA chip for mine, which was nice but it doesn't really put you any further forward than not having one at all once you do your other mods. This is because it will still need a full remap, the cost of this plus the Omex 200 (about £400 ish from memory) plus the labour for the installation and the extra time on the rolling road to map two ECUs will probably not cost much different from the Canems installation. At least with the Canems you have everything new under your bonnet and reliable. With the 14CUX everything is presumably the same age as your car (except your new AFM)? And with the Canems you can plug your laptop in to see for yourself what is happening. With the 14CUX the best you can do is buy the new ECU Mate from Steve Heath which is a very good tool but is not same.

I have been through the loop supercharging my Chim 400, and there is no way I will be sticking with the 14CUX, it is a very clever piece of kit, very sophisticated but it's lack of ignition control and limited tuners available means that it must go!

v8 racing

2,064 posts

211 months

Friday 6th July 2012
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Sorry for the website not being active from various searches i will have to get shaun to check that one out, first i have heard of it sorry but we will try and sort it.

Mr Supercharged

486 posts

117 months

Friday 6th July 2012
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No problem, sounds like I need to use firefox rather than safari on my MAC. I like to look at your web page to see what you're up to at V8D. When I blow up my 4.0 (3.9 Serpentine) I'll be needing a new engine. Spoke to you ages back and you said that you do some special heads for supercharging, larger on the exhaust or something? Presumably you do a Cam too for hydraulic tappets, one with minimum overlap so you don't just pump the compressed air out the exhaust when both valves are open simultaneously? Are these modified /ported heads still stiff enough not to crack after removal of material during the porting process?

I've been looking for a suitable exchange engine off Ebay, to avoid paying the surcharge since I guess you won't want my 3.9 Intermediate (Serpentine) as an exchange for a X-Bolted 4.0.....? What would you recommend here? I'd like to achieve as close to or better, 400BHP, 400Lbft from a 4litre reliably with my supercharger with the right heads and cam. An engine that could be called all the fours! Would the bottom end need stronger steel forged rods and forged pistons or could the standard parts cope for road use? At Austec Racing they have already seen 365lbft before having to retard the ignition on the distributor to stop detonation at the top end. With an intercooler, ECU upgrade and a smaller pulley on the supercharger we could be there I should imagine.....Thanks.


Bassfiend

5,530 posts

210 months

Saturday 7th July 2012
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v8 racing said:
Sorry for the website not being active from various searches i will have to get shaun to check that one out, first i have heard of it sorry but we will try and sort it.
If you're using IE9 the you have to enable "compatability view" to be able to see the options down the left hand side...

Cheers

Phil

carsy

3,018 posts

125 months

Saturday 7th July 2012
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God knows what i`m using but i cant access it either.

Graham

16,340 posts

244 months

Sunday 30th December 2012
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carsy said:
God knows what i`m using but i cant access it either.
just tried it today, half works in chrome but cant see any detail and wont open at all in ie

On the TA heads question one of the tuscan racers is having an engine built with them ( JE 5.1) and pushing the car into class A so it will be interesting to see how it performs..

TarmacRV8

49 posts

33 months

Sunday 4th March 2018
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Hello fellow enthusiasts, I'm new here, anyone had some results with the TA heads? from reading threads it seems a lot aren't to excited by them.

After some refinement of them and an engine rebuild, I've got myself a tough tractable 5 litre with them.

over 100hp per litre at 5500 rpm on 98 pump gas , 10.4 static comp and 245@50 solid roller. winds to 7500 effortlessly but have limited revs in the interest of longevity.

rev-erend

20,648 posts

244 months

Tuesday 6th March 2018
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The brutal truth is that most here just have standard RV8 heads.

Not sure if anyone has even tried the TA heads..

A few of us have Wildcat projects..

TarmacRV8

49 posts

33 months

Saturday 10th March 2018
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Ok thanks for the reply reverend, yes for most purposes the rover heads do the job . And i admit with the ta head theres been extra work into hand porting, chambers, intake and exhaust manifolds , guides , seats, valves and a new roller rocker desugn to get results.
As you would with any head improvement.

Slow M

2,581 posts

166 months

Sunday 11th March 2018
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TarmacRV8 said:
Ok thanks for the reply reverend, yes for most purposes the rover heads do the job . And i admit with the ta head theres been extra work into hand porting, chambers, intake and exhaust manifolds , guides , seats, valves and a new roller rocker desugn to get results.
As you would with any head improvement.
There are some companies, whose products are so well developed, that you actually don't have to modify the heads. Simply order the most appropriate ones they offer. AFR, for one. It's too bad, that they never got into the Rover game.

B

phazed

19,256 posts

164 months

Sunday 11th March 2018
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I just noticed that V8 Performance Parts are doing the TA heads. Not cheap as you would expect but a bit disappointing to say the least when it states that those heads are worth an extra 40 BHP! I assume they state that if you were to just bolt them onto a standard engine.

Have a read of his description.

https://www.v8performanceparts.co.uk/ta-performanc...

TarmacRV8

49 posts

33 months

Sunday 11th March 2018
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X hp bolt on is bit of a moot point.
Valves are larger, ports and chambers more efficient etc for x cc you would expect 100+ hp more. I know i found 150 more myself

phazed

19,256 posts

164 months

Sunday 11th March 2018
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I fitted a pair of V8D stage 4 heads many years ago to a 4.6 RV8 which had the 72mm plenum, Typhoon cam and with a flowed inlet achieved approximately 50bhp increase.

TarmacRV8

49 posts

33 months

Sunday 11th March 2018
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Yes if you bolt on a head and change nothing else the benefit will be limited .
Same if you bolt on ta/wildcat heads.
If you take advantage of the airfliw potential if a new casting and make sure everything matches the gain will be more pronounced.
I guess the v8d heads are highly optimised rovers.
The ta/s arent optimised as sold

phazed

19,256 posts

164 months

Sunday 11th March 2018
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I understand what you’re saying but why sell TA heads in the first place needing work to get the maximum performance?

Yes, you are correct, the V8D heads are fully worked items. About as far as you can go with Rover heads .

TarmacRV8

49 posts

33 months

Monday 12th March 2018
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they got to make a return on investment and hipefully a profit afterall.
And everyone has a different expectation and use for their engine

TarmacRV8

49 posts

33 months

Monday 12th March 2018
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40hp bolt on is very decrnt for the price anyhow