Mating a TKO gearbox to RV8

Mating a TKO gearbox to RV8

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Discussion

DonkeyApple

38,954 posts

128 months

Thursday 11th December 2014
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Slow M said:
2. The only item I regret, on my own build, is the use of an Aluminium bellhousing. A steel scattershield is too great a safety improvement, to not be included, in a proper build.

Best,
B.
That sounds interesting. What's the reasoning? Is it to do with energy adsorption in a crash?

Slow M

2,581 posts

165 months

Wednesday 17th December 2014
quotequote all
DonkeyApple said:
Slow M said:
2. The only item I regret, on my own build, is the use of an Aluminium bellhousing. A steel scattershield is too great a safety improvement, to not be included, in a proper build.

Best,
B.
That sounds interesting. What's the reasoning? Is it to do with energy adsorption in a crash?
Clutches can grenade rather violently. Steel scattershields contain the fragments.

Best,
B.

macdeb

Original Poster:

7,617 posts

214 months

Tuesday 6th January 2015
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Well, I got myself a TKO 600 gearbox from 'Spartridge' [cheers bloke] and picked it up from Topcats Racing. By the way, nice set up down there VERY impressive and Warren and the guys were very helpful. Dropped off my RV8 bellhousing at 'Rakeway' yesterday who are modifying it for me to take the TKO [Neal there is another of helpful guy with plenty of time to talk to you which is nice] along with fitting a concentric release bearing. Just have to decide on which clutch to use as my new AP single plate has held up so far but, do I go twin plate now or later scratchchin Today I ordered a mid-shifter kit from the States to bring gearchange in same position in the car as the old T5. I did notice that 'Real Steel' used to make a bellhousing for the RV8/TKO but no longer do so banghead
I'll keep thread updated in case anyone else finds it useful if they're considering the same in the future.

DonkeyApple

38,954 posts

128 months

Tuesday 6th January 2015
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I have to say that both Warren at TopCats and Neal at Rakeway are two rarities in this market place.

Extremely clued up on their subject, extremely helpful and educating and no hint of the usual bad mouthing of others or other tacky sales craft that blights the modding world.

SILICONEKID345HP

14,938 posts

190 months

Thursday 8th January 2015
quotequote all
macdeb said:
Well, I got myself a TKO 600 gearbox from 'Spartridge' [cheers bloke] and picked it up from Topcats Racing. By the way, nice set up down there VERY impressive and Warren and the guys were very helpful. Dropped off my RV8 bellhousing at 'Rakeway' yesterday who are modifying it for me to take the TKO [Neal there is another of helpful guy with plenty of time to talk to you which is nice] along with fitting a concentric release bearing. Just have to decide on which clutch to use as my new AP single plate has held up so far but, do I go twin plate now or later scratchchin Today I ordered a mid-shifter kit from the States to bring gearchange in same position in the car as the old T5. I did notice that 'Real Steel' used to make a bellhousing for the RV8/TKO but no longer do so banghead
I'll keep thread updated in case anyone else finds it useful if they're considering the same in the future.
How much is the whole project going to cost ? How do the ratios compare .

macdeb

Original Poster:

7,617 posts

214 months

Monday 12th January 2015
quotequote all
SILICONEKID345HP said:
How much is the whole project going to cost ? How do the ratios compare .
Daz, around £3k. new twin plate clutch, new steel flywheel, machining bellhousing, centre slave, spiogot bearing, balancing and used low mileage gearbox.
Ratios are similar to T5 at;
2.87=1st
1.89=2nd
1.28=3rd
1.0=4th
0.82=5th
There is an option for a 0,64 = 5th gear but that for me would be a too wider gap between 4th and 5th.
A Quaiffe conversion with shot-peening etc was going to cost around £2.2 [without new clutch and flywheel] and then it would be at it's limit. So I shouldn't be left at the roadside with a box full of broken cogs wink
EFA and slight change for centre slave cylinder.



Edited by macdeb on Tuesday 13th January 21:36


Edited by macdeb on Thursday 22 January 20:30

77racing

3,313 posts

146 months

Monday 12th January 2015
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Mac
I have this infront of mine, spins up like a motorcycle evil............................



I have a steel flywheel and a single plate racing AP clutch plate and cover spare in the garage if any use, although you might need some think a bit beefier with all that lovely torque you have. Don't forget you will need to fabricate a new rear box mount and a new prop shaft as yours won't be long enough.



Edited by 77racing on Monday 12th January 21:13

macdeb

Original Poster:

7,617 posts

214 months

Monday 12th January 2015
quotequote all
77racing said:
Mac
I have this infront of mine, spins up like a motorcycle evil............................



I have a steel flywheel and a single plate racing AP clutch plate and cover spare in the garage if any use, although you might need some think a bit beefier with all that lovely torque you have. Don't forget you will need to fabricate a new rear box mount and a new prop shaft as yours won't be long enough.



Edited by 77racing on Monday 12th January 21:13
lick That looks so cool, shame to cover it up! Thanks for the offer, I would've had the flywheel for sure if I had known earlier banghead Ordered steel flywheel and McCleod RST 10.5" twin plate clutch this morning. Just gotta get 'em all balanced now, then offer up, then measure for propshaft and new gearbox mount. thumbup


Edited by macdeb on Monday 12th January 23:21

SILICONEKID345HP

14,938 posts

190 months

Tuesday 20th January 2015
quotequote all
macdeb said:
lick That looks so cool, shame to cover it up! Thanks for the offer, I would've had the flywheel for sure if I had known earlier banghead Ordered steel flywheel and McCleod RST 10.5" twin plate clutch this morning. Just gotta get 'em all balanced now, then offer up, then measure for propshaft and new gearbox mount. thumbup


Edited by macdeb on Monday 12th January 23:21
Do you have to change the flywheel when changing the gearbox ?

macdeb

Original Poster:

7,617 posts

214 months

Wednesday 21st January 2015
quotequote all
SILICONEKID345HP said:
Do you have to change the flywheel when changing the gearbox ?
No, I chose to as it comes with the drillings for my new twin plate clutch which made life easier, and it's an upgrade because it's stronger than OE wink

Boosted LS1

19,458 posts

219 months

Wednesday 21st January 2015
quotequote all
It may be an idea to check for clutch cover clearance to the bellhousing and if it fouls you can cut slots in the housing and weld plates over the top. Mine fouled because I was using a range rover flywheel which is deeper then sdi.

domV8

1,343 posts

140 months

Wednesday 21st January 2015
quotequote all
I have thought about changing up to a lightweight steel flywheel - but do you not have to remove the engine, disassemble and get the new flywheel balanced with the crank/etc/etc as a single rotating mass..?

Or is there a way to swap flywheels and have a properly balanced end result without having to take the engine out/apart..?

macdeb

Original Poster:

7,617 posts

214 months

Thursday 22nd January 2015
quotequote all
domV8 said:
I have thought about changing up to a lightweight steel flywheel - but do you not have to remove the engine, disassemble and get the new flywheel balanced with the crank/etc/etc as a single rotating mass..?

Or is there a way to swap flywheels and have a properly balanced end result without having to take the engine out/apart..?
Hi Dom, a 4.6 built by Dom [TVR Power] bow I would guess it's been balanced though best ask or should be on spec' sheet. All things considered, you can change flywheel with engine in situ and have the balancing matched to the existing if your not sure.


Edited by macdeb on Thursday 22 January 20:58

domV8

1,343 posts

140 months

Friday 23rd January 2015
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Hi Mac,

I was very specific at rebuild time about the importance of balancing, as the point of the rebuild/new heads was to extend the usable rev range - so wanted something that was well balanced as it would regularly see 6500rpm...

So any changes would have to retain this level of balancing - can crank assemblies balanced while still within the engine, be balanced to the same tolerances as "standard" balancing where the crank assembly has been removed from the engine..? ie. is the level of balancing achieved comparable to standard balancing processes?

Thanks,


Dom

carsy

3,018 posts

124 months

Friday 23rd January 2015
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Cant see how you can do balancing work with crank still in the engine.

When i recently spoke to Dom about balancing he didnt do proper internal balancing for the RV8, only external balancing as per 500`s.

macdeb

Original Poster:

7,617 posts

214 months

Friday 23rd January 2015
quotequote all
domV8 said:
Hi Mac,

I was very specific at rebuild time about the importance of balancing, as the point of the rebuild/new heads was to extend the usable rev range - so wanted something that was well balanced as it would regularly see 6500rpm...

So any changes would have to retain this level of balancing - can crank assemblies balanced while still within the engine, be balanced to the same tolerances as "standard" balancing where the crank assembly has been removed from the engine..? ie. is the level of balancing achieved comparable to standard balancing processes?

Thanks,


Dom
Hi Dom,
Internal balancing has to be best if you think about it, having all the pistons/rods weighing exactly the same, then crank balance, then flywheel and clutch pressure plate, front pulleys. That's how mine was done.
I would think you need to ascertain if the crank was balanced independent. Though from what Carsy says that's doubtful, but like I say I'd ask. But you can have the new flywheel matched to the balancing of the old. Ask 'Brummie' on here as I recall that's what he had to have done for his LS.


Edited by macdeb on Friday 23 January 14:33

Boosted LS1

19,458 posts

219 months

Friday 23rd January 2015
quotequote all
Rv8's can be internally balanced but it takes a lot of time to do it. External balancing means that weights get added to the flywheel and pulley as required. It's much quicker and simpler but means you can't swop those componants. They belong on the original engine.

Factory engines are often assembled with mass produced parts, (cranks, pistons, rods etc) which have been manufactured to the correct tolerances required to achieve reasonable balance.

Then the assembled engines are 'driven' by a machine and additional balancing is done to the the front and rear of the crank if required. This is how it was done at Rover. Also, Camaro's don't get any balancing treatment to the crank pulley or flywheel but Corvettes do. The vettes redline 500 rpm's higher.

SILICONEKID345HP

14,938 posts

190 months

Sunday 8th February 2015
quotequote all
Boosted LS1 said:
Rv8's can be internally balanced but it takes a lot of time to do it. External balancing means that weights get added to the flywheel and pulley as required. It's much quicker and simpler but means you can't swop those componants. They belong on the original engine.

Factory engines are often assembled with mass produced parts, (cranks, pistons, rods etc) which have been manufactured to the correct tolerances required to achieve reasonable balance.

Then the assembled engines are 'driven' by a machine and additional balancing is done to the the front and rear of the crank if required. This is how it was done at Rover. Also, Camaro's don't get any balancing treatment to the crank pulley or flywheel but Corvettes do. The vettes redline 500 rpm's higher.
I had my pistons weighed and drilled also con rods ,then the crank balanced , 7lbs off the flywheel.

I saw the crank on the machine being spun ,with i think the flywheel and clutch on the end .

The whole lot cost me £75 ,my little 1860 mgb engine spun past 6500 rpm .

You can`t beat those little old engineering works and someone who looks like a geriatric doing the magic for you ..cool

Farndon Motors ,absolutely brilliant .


Edited by SILICONEKID345HP on Sunday 8th February 20:26

macdeb

Original Poster:

7,617 posts

214 months

Monday 9th February 2015
quotequote all
SILICONEKID345HP said:
I had my pistons weighed and drilled also con rods ,then the crank balanced , 7lbs off the flywheel.

I saw the crank on the machine being spun ,with i think the flywheel and clutch on the end .

The whole lot cost me £75 ,my little 1860 mgb engine spun past 6500 rpm .

You can`t beat those little old engineering works and someone who looks like a geriatric doing the magic for you ..cool

Farndon Motors ,absolutely brilliant .

Edited by SILICONEKID345HP on Sunday 8th February 20:26
yes
MJA automotive engineering in Bromsgrove here. Was abit more expensive than that but great job done and best money spent IMO thumbup


macdeb

Original Poster:

7,617 posts

214 months

Wednesday 18th February 2015
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Update; After waiting, and waiting, 3 journeys [to Cheadle] covering 480 miles and 3 days from work, being told next week, next week, next week and after nearly two months from start got my stuff back. [shame, seemed a nice bunch but my requirements were way down on the list it seems, not so important to them but very important to me] Can't live on maybe and could still be waiting now.
Spoke to an old mate [Craig @ Dyno-torque] who I should've gone to first banghead but didn't think, and he started straight away.
Thanks to guys who PM'd me with ideas and information as it was very helpful, I'll keep updating for anyone who may be thinking of the same conversion. [there are some high power RV8's coming out there]
Anyone thinking of LS conversions should pop in to Craigs, besides his 1017bhp [yes, 1017] twin turbo LS 6.9 RX7 he is doing many others at the moment and they look awesome bow

Edited by macdeb on Wednesday 18th February 16:44


Edited by macdeb on Sunday 15th March 17:44