IP cameras v coax/analogue type
Discussion
I think I've touched on this subject before in replying to someone's thread about fitting CCTV cameras and it seems all the rage to go for IP ones now. I've fitted a fair few systems over the years and I've always been of the opinion that the analogue systems never go wrong and the IP ones are an over complicated solution to a problem that never existed in the first place that will go wrong at regular intervals. And I've been proved right again, Its a case of either learning to screw a BNC connector onto the end of a co-ax cable or do a 3 year degree in computer science to understand what the hell IP addresses/DNS/gateways and a whole host of other nerdy terms are all about.
I'll set the scene, I need to fit an intercom to a set of gates but the client wants to be able to answer it from their phone so I've opted for this Hikvision system only because I've fitted a few hikvision analogue camera systems and I know my way around the hik connect app.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hikvision-IP-Video-Inte...
I've got it set up at home and I've spent the whole evening just trying to get it up and running, I'm not sure if anyone has fitted one yet but my god they are so complicated its unreal, zero instructions supplied with them so its all guess work and I still cant get the time to sync between the indoor and outdoor units. It won't work if DHCP is selected and the only way I can get it running is to connect using both wired and wireless connections.
The last time I tried to fit an IP camera system all the cameras decided to set their own password that was different to the NVR password so point blank refused to connect, that took me all morning to get up and running again with long phone calls to tech support.
I really want to get into fitting stuff like this and smart tech in homes etc but people must go clinically insane battling with stuff like this, its just so much easier to say to the client that you dont get involved with anything like this.
I'll set the scene, I need to fit an intercom to a set of gates but the client wants to be able to answer it from their phone so I've opted for this Hikvision system only because I've fitted a few hikvision analogue camera systems and I know my way around the hik connect app.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hikvision-IP-Video-Inte...
I've got it set up at home and I've spent the whole evening just trying to get it up and running, I'm not sure if anyone has fitted one yet but my god they are so complicated its unreal, zero instructions supplied with them so its all guess work and I still cant get the time to sync between the indoor and outdoor units. It won't work if DHCP is selected and the only way I can get it running is to connect using both wired and wireless connections.
The last time I tried to fit an IP camera system all the cameras decided to set their own password that was different to the NVR password so point blank refused to connect, that took me all morning to get up and running again with long phone calls to tech support.
I really want to get into fitting stuff like this and smart tech in homes etc but people must go clinically insane battling with stuff like this, its just so much easier to say to the client that you dont get involved with anything like this.
Why do electricians think they are qualified to start charging people to install IT equipment? If IT people started doing Consumer Unit swaps you'd all be b
hing like hell.
Just because both a mains cable & a network cable are copper cores covered in PVC doesn't mean you're capable of installing a networked IT system.
hing like hell.Just because both a mains cable & a network cable are copper cores covered in PVC doesn't mean you're capable of installing a networked IT system.
If you are installing analogue then that's like buying a horse and cart when you have modern cars.
IPCCTV is not compliated, it's cheaper, uses smaller cables, and is much easier to troubleshoot than coax, it just requires basic rudimentary knowledge of IP networks - everyone uses a networks/subnets/gateway/DHCP(or static) to access the internet - its not rocket science, it's perfectly logical.
IPCCTV is not compliated, it's cheaper, uses smaller cables, and is much easier to troubleshoot than coax, it just requires basic rudimentary knowledge of IP networks - everyone uses a networks/subnets/gateway/DHCP(or static) to access the internet - its not rocket science, it's perfectly logical.
Edited by Brother D on Wednesday 28th October 02:54
I don’t believe there really is a market for “installing smart tech” in people’s homes ... its all designed to be so simple literally anyone can do it.
I’ve installed 3 smart cctv camera/floodlights, iot sockets and plugs, lights, etc... in a matter of minutes and all connected through google home and HomeKit so it’s voice activated. I’m not a tech person at all.
I’ve installed 3 smart cctv camera/floodlights, iot sockets and plugs, lights, etc... in a matter of minutes and all connected through google home and HomeKit so it’s voice activated. I’m not a tech person at all.
Brother D said:
If you are installing analogue then that's like buying a horse and cart when you have modern cars.
IPCCTV is not compliated, it's cheaper, uses smaller cables, and is much easier to troubleshoot than coax, it just requires basic rudimentary knowledge of IP networks - everyone uses a networks/subnets/gateway/DHCP(or static) to access the internet - its not rocket science, it's perfectly logical.
I agree it should be logical but in the couple of times I've tried IP stuff its had stupid faults. One of the problems I got with this kit is there is a time difference on the screen to what is set in the indoor unit. You can go into the settings on the indoor unit and set the time to the correct time and the correct time and date show on the home page as it should do but when you view the live feed at the camera the time stamp and date stamp are wrong by a large margin. Why can't the date and time just filter down to the outdoor camera unit?IPCCTV is not compliated, it's cheaper, uses smaller cables, and is much easier to troubleshoot than coax, it just requires basic rudimentary knowledge of IP networks - everyone uses a networks/subnets/gateway/DHCP(or static) to access the internet - its not rocket science, it's perfectly logical.
Edited by Brother D on Wednesday 28th October 02:54
There is a page on ther settings that is for the outdoor unit but its very basic, its just for the IP address and despite it all working if you try and change any settings for the outdoor unit like revert to factory it says operation failed, I'm guessing the passwords are different on both the units. Apparently you can use ims4200 or whatever its called to set the units up but it looks like you need a degree just to use that software.
As for the cable being bigger you can get power over co-ax and the RG59 cable is as thin as a cat 5 cable with no need for any extra power run, you plug it in and it just works with zero setting up. The only advantage I can see IP has is it does audio as well.
Brother D said:
If you are installing analogue then that's like buying a horse and cart when you have modern cars.
IPCCTV is not compliated, it's cheaper, uses smaller cables, and is much easier to troubleshoot than coax, it just requires basic rudimentary knowledge of IP networks - everyone uses a networks/subnets/gateway/DHCP(or static) to access the internet - its not rocket science, it's perfectly logical.
IP kit is not cheaper. Cams are more expensive than the analogue equivalent. It is more ag to set-up an IP system than analogue and takes more time. Analogue is more reliable and easier to fix issues. Many new commercial systems we get involved with are still using analogue, because it is cheaper, and easier to install. Easier to support long term. IPCCTV is not compliated, it's cheaper, uses smaller cables, and is much easier to troubleshoot than coax, it just requires basic rudimentary knowledge of IP networks - everyone uses a networks/subnets/gateway/DHCP(or static) to access the internet - its not rocket science, it's perfectly logical.
Edited by Brother D on Wednesday 28th October 02:54
I've got a numerous HikVision cameras (and a couple of other brands too), using Synology Surveillance Station to control them. A little knowledge of basic networking should be all you need to set these up. I'd recommend cabling, not wifi, but setup is pretty simple for anyone who's reasonably IT aware.
Mr Pointy said:
Why do electricians think they are qualified to start charging people to install IT equipment? If IT people started doing Consumer Unit swaps you'd all be bhing like hell.
Just because both a mains cable & a network cable are copper cores covered in PVC doesn't mean you're capable of installing a networked IT system.
It's almost as bad as IT people thinking they know about electrics.hing like hell.Just because both a mains cable & a network cable are copper cores covered in PVC doesn't mean you're capable of installing a networked IT system.
Electricians start a job and install metal basket and tray all over the place, then the cables are are neatly tied to the basket and all properly contained. The IT guys come along and lasso all their cables across the grid ceiling or try install them into our basket.
Usually though they expect the electrician to do all the donkey work and run all their cables in for them whilst they turn up in a suit and tie with a lap top to program it vall at the end and expect to make more than anyone.
Usually though they expect the electrician to do all the donkey work and run all their cables in for them whilst they turn up in a suit and tie with a lap top to program it vall at the end and expect to make more than anyone.
scottyp123 said:
I agree it should be logical but in the couple of times I've tried IP stuff its had stupid faults. One of the problems I got with this kit is there is a time difference on the screen to what is set in the indoor unit. You can go into the settings on the indoor unit and set the time to the correct time and the correct time and date show on the home page as it should do but when you view the live feed at the camera the time stamp and date stamp are wrong by a large margin. Why can't the date and time just filter down to the outdoor camera unit?
There is a page on ther settings that is for the outdoor unit but its very basic, its just for the IP address and despite it all working if you try and change any settings for the outdoor unit like revert to factory it says operation failed, I'm guessing the passwords are different on both the units. Apparently you can use ims4200 or whatever its called to set the units up but it looks like you need a degree just to use that software.
As for the cable being bigger you can get power over co-ax and the RG59 cable is as thin as a cat 5 cable with no need for any extra power run, you plug it in and it just works with zero setting up. The only advantage I can see IP has is it does audio as well.
On a decent system, time is automatically synchronised. My UniFi system gets time from an NTP server, no need to worry about clocks changing, it does it automatically. There is a page on ther settings that is for the outdoor unit but its very basic, its just for the IP address and despite it all working if you try and change any settings for the outdoor unit like revert to factory it says operation failed, I'm guessing the passwords are different on both the units. Apparently you can use ims4200 or whatever its called to set the units up but it looks like you need a degree just to use that software.
As for the cable being bigger you can get power over co-ax and the RG59 cable is as thin as a cat 5 cable with no need for any extra power run, you plug it in and it just works with zero setting up. The only advantage I can see IP has is it does audio as well.
My experiences with Hikvision kit have been universally awful - bug infested and brittle software. My wife agreeed to a Hikvsion burglar alarm install when I wasn’t paying attention, and it is pile of crap.
The whole point about using IP cameras is the connectivity. Analogue cameras will only talk to an A/D converter in a box (like an old video tape machine) and then the manufacturer has to make some web interface which they will screw up. Something like UniFi comes as a piece of network equipment that also happens to take pictures. Getting to talk to an app is a no brainer. Setting the whole thing up using POE and a UPS backed switch means that I can still remotely access the system, even in a power cut.
I set up an IP based system at our place in Spain - the integration between network and cameras has been invaluable as we haven’t been there for nearly a year. I can do things like restarting the whole camera set up because I have control of the POE switch, so when something goes wonky (and it does on all systems), I can just reboot it remotely.
rxe said:
On a decent system, time is automatically synchronised. My UniFi system gets time from an NTP server, no need to worry about clocks changing, it does it automatically.
My experiences with Hikvision kit have been universally awful - bug infested and brittle software. My wife agreeed to a Hikvsion burglar alarm install when I wasn’t paying attention, and it is pile of crap.
The whole point about using IP cameras is the connectivity. Analogue cameras will only talk to an A/D converter in a box (like an old video tape machine) and then the manufacturer has to make some web interface which they will screw up. Something like UniFi comes as a piece of network equipment that also happens to take pictures. Getting to talk to an app is a no brainer. Setting the whole thing up using POE and a UPS backed switch means that I can still remotely access the system, even in a power cut.
I set up an IP based system at our place in Spain - the integration between network and cameras has been invaluable as we haven’t been there for nearly a year. I can do things like restarting the whole camera set up because I have control of the POE switch, so when something goes wonky (and it does on all systems), I can just reboot it remotely.
This is how it should work on the system I've fitted. Its not like I'm totally clueless on these things, I understand about IP addresses and subnets and what not, I've managed to get my own camera system working at home by opening ports on my router and set up a DDNS account to keep it all up and running so I do know some stuff, its just that it seems nothing plays ball the way it should with me.My experiences with Hikvision kit have been universally awful - bug infested and brittle software. My wife agreeed to a Hikvsion burglar alarm install when I wasn’t paying attention, and it is pile of crap.
The whole point about using IP cameras is the connectivity. Analogue cameras will only talk to an A/D converter in a box (like an old video tape machine) and then the manufacturer has to make some web interface which they will screw up. Something like UniFi comes as a piece of network equipment that also happens to take pictures. Getting to talk to an app is a no brainer. Setting the whole thing up using POE and a UPS backed switch means that I can still remotely access the system, even in a power cut.
I set up an IP based system at our place in Spain - the integration between network and cameras has been invaluable as we haven’t been there for nearly a year. I can do things like restarting the whole camera set up because I have control of the POE switch, so when something goes wonky (and it does on all systems), I can just reboot it remotely.
On this intercom I've got, there is an indoor station with a screen where you do all the setting up and an outdoor camera station with a call button, there is zero setting up to do with this, its got a 12V supply and an RJ45 socket and thats that, there isn't even a reset button on it.
I've gone into all the settings on the screen and I've set the time and date on it and I've also set up the time syncing page and it does sync and correct the time on the indoor unit, it just doesn't filter through to the camera side of things outside, when you bring the live picture up the timestamp is out by a month and a few hours.
The bit outside isn't just the outside bit of the intercom, I think it is actually a fully blown IP camera with a call button on it, it could be used in isolation to the inside bit if I wanted to. I've even tried to connect to it by plugging it into my laptop and changing the subnet on the laptop to the same as the camera and I can get the log in page up but it just says wrong password no matter what I type in whether its the default one or the one I changed it to on the set up screen. To re-set the password on it I apparently need to send of an xml file to hikvision and they will send a code back to me, now that sounds ludicrously over the top if you ask me.
Ive got 3 POE hikvision cameras connected to a synology NAS - it was pretty much plug and play. The only tweeking was to set the quality, recording type (24x7, movement triggered, and the image area to monitor) I can login remote via the synology app or direct to the individual camera. Its 4k not crappy analogue
and its been rock steady for 3 years. I made my own cables (put RJ45s on the end) laid my own cables with zero knowledge except that gleaned from the internet.
Hikvision stuff is pretty good, so dont know what the problems are that you are experiencing.
and its been rock steady for 3 years. I made my own cables (put RJ45s on the end) laid my own cables with zero knowledge except that gleaned from the internet.
Hikvision stuff is pretty good, so dont know what the problems are that you are experiencing.
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