£22k Bentley Continental GT - running costs?
Discussion
I think people kind of expect to get hammered owning a car like this, like it is expected and almost feel embarrassed if they object or do it cheaply, it almost like it is used by the owners as a way to reinforce the difference between them and the rest of the plebs.
It is only a car after all, not a Eurofighter or A380.
It is inevitable that all cars migrate down into less well heeled ownership, some of the mystique is broekn down around the car, I remember a Golf GTI being a strange and wondrous thing with its fancy fuel injection, a few years later it is about the simplest thing you can by, ok the Bentley is an order of magnitude more complex but it will be reverse engineered by the owner community, every car has a user forum and there is always someone that pulls it to bits and becomes a guru, the knowledge filters down.
It is only a car after all, not a Eurofighter or A380.
It is inevitable that all cars migrate down into less well heeled ownership, some of the mystique is broekn down around the car, I remember a Golf GTI being a strange and wondrous thing with its fancy fuel injection, a few years later it is about the simplest thing you can by, ok the Bentley is an order of magnitude more complex but it will be reverse engineered by the owner community, every car has a user forum and there is always someone that pulls it to bits and becomes a guru, the knowledge filters down.
279 said:
300BHP/Ton, I'm going to put this bluntly. I'm a Crewe trained Bentley service technician. You're a bloke on the internet who has already admitted to not knowing much about these cars. Why are you so convinced that you know more about running, maintaining and servicing these cars than people who clearly know more about them than you do?
Are you serious? This is the internet.300bhp/ton said:
re-skinning would be many changes...
I'm not saying they aren't different in places. But the basic platform, structure, engine, suspension, layout, breaking and I daresay even HVAC and switch gear are all XJ-S or Ford parts bin. It's a lovely car the DB7, but it's £100k or what ever price tag didn't mean it was engineered any differently or used any different parts to cars costing half the amount.
Sorry but you're speaking bI'm not saying they aren't different in places. But the basic platform, structure, engine, suspension, layout, breaking and I daresay even HVAC and switch gear are all XJ-S or Ford parts bin. It's a lovely car the DB7, but it's £100k or what ever price tag didn't mean it was engineered any differently or used any different parts to cars costing half the amount.
ks again. Yes, it's based on those things, but have a look at both underneath and you will see the differences. It looks a lot more beefed up on the DB7.300bhp/ton said:
That is a risk yes. But one many people run with far more mundane cars that could still break to bank to sort. Again how much would an out of warrant M3 (or 335i) cost to repair if the motor/turbo went tits up?
True, I can see electrical niggles being reason for scrapping modern cars as they become too costly to repair, but that's another story.The M3, even if it's not really a "normal" car will still be much cheaper to repair and run than the Bentley.
Finlandia said:
300bhp/ton said:
That is a risk yes. But one many people run with far more mundane cars that could still break to bank to sort. Again how much would an out of warrant M3 (or 335i) cost to repair if the motor/turbo went tits up?
True, I can see electrical niggles being reason for scrapping modern cars as they become too costly to repair, but that's another story.The M3, even if it's not really a "normal" car will still be much cheaper to repair and run than the Bentley.
Here's an example, a blown head gasket. Nothing TOO crazy in the grand scheme of things. How much would the pair of head gaskets cost on an E92 M3? Not much more than a couple of grand, surely?
On a GT? Well, they're not available from the factory full stop, and I think a new fully dressed longblock comes in near the £20,000 mark, or if you want to do it 300per/ton's bargain basement way:
This:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Engine-Bentley-Continent...
Plus engine removal and refitting at a specialist (Waits for 300per ton to suggest this can be done at a back street garage
) ~£4k£12k and counting before the refit kit (Although I'm sure 300 thinks that replacing stretch bolts is a complete scam and some form of 'Bentley tax') alignment (But tyre shops can do tracking for £25, can't they
), diagnostic checks (because a £30 code reader proforms precisely the same functions as 4 figures worth of genuine VAS) and whatever else may come on top. And that's the bill for pretty much any non ancillary mechanical failure. There is very, very little available direct even from Crewe as the factory did not give permission for the W12 to be stripped down in dealer. ...Waits for 300 to suggest using head gaskets from a Phaeton...
Edited by 279 on Thursday 24th May 15:05
279 said:
Precisely.
Here's an example, a blown head gasket. Nothing TOO crazy in the grand scheme of things. How much would the pair of head gaskets cost on an E92 M3? Not much more than a couple of grand, surely?
On a GT? Well, they're not available from the factory full stop, and I think a new fully dressed longblock comes in near the £20,000 mark, or if you want to do it 300per/ton's bargain basement way:
This:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Engine-Bentley-Continent...
Plus engine removal and refitting at a specialist (Waits for 300per ton to suggest this can be done at a back street garage) ~£4k
£12k and counting before the refit kit (Although I'm sure 300 thinks that replacing stretch bolts is a complete scam and some form of 'Bentley tax') alignment (But tyre shops can do tracking for £25, can't they), diagnostic checks (because a £30 code reader proforms precisely the same functions as 4 figures work of genuine VAS) and whatever else may come on top. And that's the bill for pretty much any non ancillary mechanical failure. There is very, very little available direct even from Crewe as the factory did not give permission for the W12 to be stripped down in dealer.
...Waits for 300 to suggest using head gaskets from a Phaeton...
No head gaskets? Is the engine some kind of replacable part then?Here's an example, a blown head gasket. Nothing TOO crazy in the grand scheme of things. How much would the pair of head gaskets cost on an E92 M3? Not much more than a couple of grand, surely?
On a GT? Well, they're not available from the factory full stop, and I think a new fully dressed longblock comes in near the £20,000 mark, or if you want to do it 300per/ton's bargain basement way:
This:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Engine-Bentley-Continent...
Plus engine removal and refitting at a specialist (Waits for 300per ton to suggest this can be done at a back street garage
) ~£4k£12k and counting before the refit kit (Although I'm sure 300 thinks that replacing stretch bolts is a complete scam and some form of 'Bentley tax') alignment (But tyre shops can do tracking for £25, can't they
), diagnostic checks (because a £30 code reader proforms precisely the same functions as 4 figures work of genuine VAS) and whatever else may come on top. And that's the bill for pretty much any non ancillary mechanical failure. There is very, very little available direct even from Crewe as the factory did not give permission for the W12 to be stripped down in dealer. ...Waits for 300 to suggest using head gaskets from a Phaeton...
Edited by 279 on Thursday 24th May 15:04
Erm...Wow! Completely overloaded this topic! Wasn't expecting all this. I'm 100% not the type of person to do my own maintenance - putting fuel in, topping up the screen wash, oil and changing a wheel are about the extent of my abilities with cars. Oh, and i can't really buy a drum of oil as i live in an apartment building! I think you've really taken it to extremes 300bhp/ton as most of what you say - i won't be doing. I don't have the inclination, or time, to sourcing individual parts in a way to slightly reduce the costs TBH...
I too would like to know what sort of parts and labour costs (at a specialist vs dealer) for things like turbos, electric faults, big parts like suspension etc, as i'm struggling to find (accurate) info on the internet.
As i said earlier i have a back-up fund of say around £10k although it wasn't intended on running a car it's there if anything gets hairy. I think i will regret it either way, buying it or not buying it. I believe it will be the cheapest GT in Britain(!) (that hasn't been crashed) and although i accept it will still lose money on value i can't see these cars around the £10k mark within a couple of years.
I should have stated if i do go ahead i will only have it for a year certainly no more than two years. and i would get something else, so in a way it's just a car i can say i had and enjoy it for what it is.
Going to look on Saturday when it comes in but i feel like when i'm behind the wheel it will be hard to say no...oh, dear.
I too would like to know what sort of parts and labour costs (at a specialist vs dealer) for things like turbos, electric faults, big parts like suspension etc, as i'm struggling to find (accurate) info on the internet.
As i said earlier i have a back-up fund of say around £10k although it wasn't intended on running a car it's there if anything gets hairy. I think i will regret it either way, buying it or not buying it. I believe it will be the cheapest GT in Britain(!) (that hasn't been crashed) and although i accept it will still lose money on value i can't see these cars around the £10k mark within a couple of years.
I should have stated if i do go ahead i will only have it for a year certainly no more than two years. and i would get something else, so in a way it's just a car i can say i had and enjoy it for what it is.
Going to look on Saturday when it comes in but i feel like when i'm behind the wheel it will be hard to say no...oh, dear.
279 said:
Precisely.
Here's an example, a blown head gasket.
I know a local guy who had one. Every service there was something here and there that it 'needed' and it was always close to if not into four figures. However when one of the turbo's was deemed to be weak that was going to be very serious money so the car was sold fairly quickly. I am sure a turbo centre in Hackney could have sorted it but.....Here's an example, a blown head gasket.
Prospective buyers know about these cars, they do the research and can spot something that is cheap for a reason. Even at 22K I am betting that any serious buyer would probably walk away from a car with a less than perfect history that couldn't be backed up within a couple of phone calls? I cant imagine a barrel of oil, hand pump and some receipts from Partco would generate the same kind of trust
As for finding a replacement secondhand engine for £5K, I would be amazed if that were the case. Like I said before its a great car for the money but it has, and always will be a Bentley. Admission to that club is never going to be cheap.
279 said:
300BHP/Ton, I'm going to put this bluntly. I'm a Crewe trained Bentley service technician. You're a bloke on the internet who has already admitted to not knowing much about these cars. Why are you so convinced that you know more about running, maintaining and servicing these cars than people who clearly know more about them than you do?
He does the same thing on all threads he posts on. Basically disagrees with everyone (even those who know what they are talking about), lists examples of things to do with other cars that have nothing to do with the subject and then gets upset and leaves 
There's a whole lot of scaremongering on this thread. From what I can gather any car out of warranty is about to explode at any minute and a car that used to cost a lot is going to explode twice.
Yes routine items are going to cost a little more, if only because you have to buy more of it. The fact that there are few thousand of these means a few will be being broken for the odd expensive part. And has been mentioned if it was to spit a turbo then I'm sure there not Bentley-powered-by fairy-dust-turbos.
Anyway I say go for it, or you could buy the Korean model with the 8 year warranty for that "peace of mind"
Yes routine items are going to cost a little more, if only because you have to buy more of it. The fact that there are few thousand of these means a few will be being broken for the odd expensive part. And has been mentioned if it was to spit a turbo then I'm sure there not Bentley-powered-by fairy-dust-turbos.
Anyway I say go for it, or you could buy the Korean model with the 8 year warranty for that "peace of mind"
279 said:
Finlandia said:
300bhp/ton said:
That is a risk yes. But one many people run with far more mundane cars that could still break to bank to sort. Again how much would an out of warrant M3 (or 335i) cost to repair if the motor/turbo went tits up?
True, I can see electrical niggles being reason for scrapping modern cars as they become too costly to repair, but that's another story.The M3, even if it's not really a "normal" car will still be much cheaper to repair and run than the Bentley.
Here's an example, a blown head gasket. Nothing TOO crazy in the grand scheme of things. How much would the pair of head gaskets cost on an E92 M3? Not much more than a couple of grand, surely?
On a GT? Well, they're not available from the factory full stop, and I think a new fully dressed longblock comes in near the £20,000 mark, or if you want to do it 300per/ton's bargain basement way:
This:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Engine-Bentley-Continent...
Plus engine removal and refitting at a specialist (Waits for 300per ton to suggest this can be done at a back street garage
) ~£4k£12k and counting before the refit kit (Although I'm sure 300 thinks that replacing stretch bolts is a complete scam and some form of 'Bentley tax') alignment (But tyre shops can do tracking for £25, can't they
), diagnostic checks (because a £30 code reader proforms precisely the same functions as 4 figures worth of genuine VAS) and whatever else may come on top. And that's the bill for pretty much any non ancillary mechanical failure. There is very, very little available direct even from Crewe as the factory did not give permission for the W12 to be stripped down in dealer. ...Waits for 300 to suggest using head gaskets from a Phaeton...
Edited by 279 on Thursday 24th May 15:05
Alignment isn't a big deal as long as the Toe, Camber, Caster etc are available, Bentley surely cant hide that, a decent laser alignment by a specialist is what £300 - £400 ?
look at car forums and see what is being done, go to Readers Cars on here and find PurpleCivicturbo and tell me he couldn't sort most stuff out, there are some very very clever and ingenious people out there, people hack into defense computers, people machine miniature V12's out of a solid lump of metal and being a "bloke on the internet" does not detract from that and being trained in Crewe by Bentley gives you an insight and more knowledge than most but doesn't mean there aren't people who can run rings round you.
Push comes to shove, engine fails on a Conti and you cant rebuild it, perhaps sticking a Big Block V8 in it is the way to go, I am sure however that Stretch bolts and headgaskets can be made to the same or better specification by a supplier of such items.
sturrick said:
Stuff.
One thing I'd suggest is if you can beg or borrow a copy of VAG-COM, plug it into the car on Saturday and see if any error codes come up (it won’t have the full functionality of the main dealer kit, but will pick up on any stored error codes, we have a version tweaked for Bentley, if you buy the car) or ask your local specialist to give it the once over.And have a peek through the RR&B section on here, lots of examples of what goes wrong and cost to fix, all from people who understand why you need to change the battery in the key fob
300bhp/ton said:
I don't know the parts, but are any of them common with other VAG products? I say this, because often a part will have multiple prices depending on how you order them.
A classic one I know of is a Range Rover and Discovery door mirror (classic RR and Disco 1). When the in the mid 1990's if you order the Range Rover mirror it was double the cost of ordering a Discovery mirror at the same parts counter in the same dealer. It's the exact same mirror in both cases!!
Another example, a Jaguar 5.3 XJ-S V12 uses a TR7 air box and air filter. Buying an air filter for the Jag from a Jag specialist is vastly more expensive than buying the same filter from the Triumph specialist.
A few VW badged parts that I recall, but there's an awful lot that isn't. There is potential to generate some truly horrific bills. I recall seeing brake lines being something silly like £600.A classic one I know of is a Range Rover and Discovery door mirror (classic RR and Disco 1). When the in the mid 1990's if you order the Range Rover mirror it was double the cost of ordering a Discovery mirror at the same parts counter in the same dealer. It's the exact same mirror in both cases!!
Another example, a Jaguar 5.3 XJ-S V12 uses a TR7 air box and air filter. Buying an air filter for the Jag from a Jag specialist is vastly more expensive than buying the same filter from the Triumph specialist.
Yes there is scope to reduce the costs by sourcing alternative parts, yes you can save money on servicing but it still doesn't negate the fact that when things start to go wrong you will need very deep pockets. You could quite easily have an engine or electrical problem that could cost you 50% of the price of that car with no trouble at all.
As for oil in drums, as a main dealer we always got it in normal cans as it worked out cheaper that way.
Like any car that cost a lot new, the running costs could be expensive!
I think you'd be (very) unlucky if it cost 7-8k a year to run, but you've got to be prepared for bills of some magnitude when something goes wrong.
The upside is, if it has been maintained money no object, it will likely all have been replaced anyway!
If I was in your position OP, I'm certain I'd be buying it. These sort of chances don't come up every day after all.
I think you'd be (very) unlucky if it cost 7-8k a year to run, but you've got to be prepared for bills of some magnitude when something goes wrong.
The upside is, if it has been maintained money no object, it will likely all have been replaced anyway!
If I was in your position OP, I'm certain I'd be buying it. These sort of chances don't come up every day after all.
sturrick said:
Erm...Wow! Completely overloaded this topic! Wasn't expecting all this. I'm 100% not the type of person to do my own maintenance - putting fuel in, topping up the screen wash, oil and changing a wheel are about the extent of my abilities with cars. Oh, and i can't really buy a drum of oil as i live in an apartment building! I think you've really taken it to extremes 300bhp/ton as most of what you say - i won't be doing. I don't have the inclination, or time, to sourcing individual parts in a way to slightly reduce the costs TBH...
I too would like to know what sort of parts and labour costs (at a specialist vs dealer) for things like turbos, electric faults, big parts like suspension etc, as i'm struggling to find (accurate) info on the internet.
As i said earlier i have a back-up fund of say around £10k although it wasn't intended on running a car it's there if anything gets hairy. I think i will regret it either way, buying it or not buying it. I believe it will be the cheapest GT in Britain(!) (that hasn't been crashed) and although i accept it will still lose money on value i can't see these cars around the £10k mark within a couple of years.
I should have stated if i do go ahead i will only have it for a year certainly no more than two years. and i would get something else, so in a way it's just a car i can say i had and enjoy it for what it is.
Going to look on Saturday when it comes in but i feel like when i'm behind the wheel it will be hard to say no...oh, dear.
Do yourself a favour. Bring a torch with you, open the bonnet, unlock the two plastic locking clips on the passenger side of the plastic plenum cover, then pull off the rubber seal that sits on the plenum cover so that you are clear to lift it up. Then flash your torch into that area for pools of water and/or a damp loom. The loom you're specifically looking for runs from the fusebox (strange box infront of the two inline sliver boxes which have two plugs in them each which are the ECUs) and then runs towards and then underneath the HVAC system in the middle of the plenum area. If it is damp or green, do not buy the car. I too would like to know what sort of parts and labour costs (at a specialist vs dealer) for things like turbos, electric faults, big parts like suspension etc, as i'm struggling to find (accurate) info on the internet.
As i said earlier i have a back-up fund of say around £10k although it wasn't intended on running a car it's there if anything gets hairy. I think i will regret it either way, buying it or not buying it. I believe it will be the cheapest GT in Britain(!) (that hasn't been crashed) and although i accept it will still lose money on value i can't see these cars around the £10k mark within a couple of years.
I should have stated if i do go ahead i will only have it for a year certainly no more than two years. and i would get something else, so in a way it's just a car i can say i had and enjoy it for what it is.
Going to look on Saturday when it comes in but i feel like when i'm behind the wheel it will be hard to say no...oh, dear.
279 said:
Do yourself a favour. Bring a torch with you, open the bonnet, unlock the two plastic locking clips on the passenger side of the plastic plenum cover, then pull off the rubber seal that sits on the plenum cover so that you are clear to lift it up. Then flash your torch into that area for pools of water and/or a damp loom. The loom you're specifically looking for runs from the fusebox (strange box infront of the two inline sliver boxes which have two plugs in them each which are the ECUs) and then runs towards and then underneath the HVAC system in the middle of the plenum area. If it is damp or green, do not buy the car.
Not wanting to push this but, no headgasket replacement - pls buy new engine? REALLY?CampDavid said:
Not wanting to push this but, no headgasket replacement - pls buy new engine? REALLY?
I think that's pretty much the case.I saw it mentioned on an Ebay ad for an engine stated that it had been replaced due to a head gasket failure and that gaskets weren't available from Crewe and thought that they would surely be available, so sure enough the next day I had a click around the parts catalogue and low and behold, no headgaskets listed. In fact as I mentioned, past ancillaries you cannot get much at all.
279 said:
I think that's pretty much the case.
I saw it mentioned on an Ebay ad for an engine stated that it had been replaced due to a head gasket failure and that gaskets weren't available from Crewe and thought that they would surely be available, so sure enough the next day I had a click around the parts catalogue and low and behold, no headgaskets listed. In fact as I mentioned, past ancillaries you cannot get much at all.
Jesus. That's pretty mental.I saw it mentioned on an Ebay ad for an engine stated that it had been replaced due to a head gasket failure and that gaskets weren't available from Crewe and thought that they would surely be available, so sure enough the next day I had a click around the parts catalogue and low and behold, no headgaskets listed. In fact as I mentioned, past ancillaries you cannot get much at all.
I was thinking about head gaskets the other day, as I stood beside my 7 series which had just popped a coolant hose, pondering that at some stage the art of changing a headgasket would be gone, engines would be fit and forget units.
Kinda thought this would happen on something like a Toyota IQ first, not a Bentley!
In reality, I guess you could probably fab some up using the old ones for a pattern but it still seems mad
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