The Running Thread Vol 2

[redrabbit29]

jm8403 said:

Good job. do you do a lot of track at zone 2 so you can do running workouts with proper effort?

Thanks!

The track is organised by my running club. It's a one hour session with around 40 minutes of actual running, most of it is hard efforts.

Something similar to:

800m hard with 90 seconds static rest

2x2 mins
1x3
1x4
1x3
1x2
2x2 mins

400m intervals

Loads of others, mostly about 7/10 or 8/10 effort to get the heart rate up and then rest to get it back down

[smn159]

10k in driving sleet at lunchtime.

Garmin did reward me with the International Women's Day badge at the end though - happy days

[Inspire]

smn159 said:

10k in driving sleet at lunchtime.

Garmin did reward me with the International Women's Day badge at the end though - happy days

Well done! I chickened out and did intervals on the treadmill at the gym!

Thanks

Rob

[smn159]

Inspire said:

smn159 said:

10k in driving sleet at lunchtime.

Garmin did reward me with the International Women's Day badge at the end though - happy days

Well done! I chickened out and did intervals on the treadmill at the gym!

Thanks

Rob

Good work - They all count!

[keo]

Was just starting to get into my running a bit more again. Ran yesterday, wanted to do a short one today and then a long one Saturday. But it’s white over and snowing hard. I don’t want to be a tart and let a bit of snow stop me, I also don’t want to slip and break my neck!

So think I will wait until the snow clears.

[redrabbit29]

keo said:

So think I will wait until the snow clears.

Sensible decision in my view. You'll not miss anything with a day off or even a couple of days. But slip and you could be really hurt, not worth risking

[smn159]

3 x 4k at tempo pace today in the driving rain. Rest day tomorrow, then parkrun Saturday and a 20 miler on Sunday.

6 weeks 'till London

[Inspire]

Last proper long run today (32k) ahead of starting the taper next week. Paris is 3 weeks today! I feel somewhat weary at present but pleased with how the training has gone to date.

Thanks

Rob

[joshcowin]

Great work!! I did 20 miles today, felt OK which was nice! Not sure weather to do another at 22miles next week!? Any thoughts?

16th April is my marathon date, its a hilly course.

[keo]

I would love to do 1 marathon as an achievement. Thinking about doing the IOM in august. Would be nice to take the car over and have a blast as well, we are on PistonHeads!

Looking at plans though they mention intervals/ specific speeds and strength training. I aren’t that serious. My question is could I do a marathon from just running?

Most of it would be slow to just get miles in. I could run a half marathon now, wouldn’t be fast but it wouldn’t be a problem. My furthest run is about 16/17 miles I have ever done and I have done 120 mile months in the past. Although no where near that now. Just been ticking over doing 50 mile months over winter!

The other thing I never fuel/ drink on my runs either.

[smn159]

keo said:

Looking at plans though they mention intervals/ specific speeds and strength training. I aren’t that serious. My question is could I do a marathon from just running?

My experience is that there is a big step up in difficulty between half and full distance. You may get away with it with just running, but the cumulative volume of training needed and the long run distances will expose any underlying weaknesses that you may have - typically hips and glutes weakness so your knee tends to track not quite straight causing pain, but could be anything

So it's possible, but it's highly likely that you'll get injured if you don't work on strength as well.

In terms of fuelling, I find it's not really needed up to half marathon distance, but I'll take a couple of gels for anything longer and space them out during the run

Edited by smn159 on Monday 13th March 08:10

[RizzoTheRat]

Local half marathon on Sunday, and I was watching near the finish.

Lead guy did 1:00:53, with second place in 1:00:54, and they passed me at a pace I doubt I'd be able to sprint a few yards at. The professionals are impressive to watch, even more so that they're wandering around quite happily 5 minute's later. I'd be lead on the floor for a hour if I managed it in double that time

Course record is apparently 58:33 which is insane.

[keo]

Thanks smn pretty much confirmed I need to stop being daft and be serious if I want to really do a marathon!

[joshcowin]

keo said:

Thanks smn pretty much confirmed I need to stop being daft and be serious if I want to really do a marathon!

Age is a factor also, the older you are the greater the benefit of strength training!

I think you can do a marathon without specific workouts and sessions, building fatigue and running on tired legs is important imo! Racing a marathon and completing one are 2 completely different things!

[redrabbit29]

Did a 10k "race" yesterday. Felt really good after giving up exercise in May 2022 due to family issues.

Completed it in 1hr02mins which is fine by me as it was hilly and I am still building fitness. My 10k PB is 50 minutes, so trying to get back towards that kind of ballpark

[MesoForm]

keo said:

I would love to do 1 marathon as an achievement. Thinking about doing the IOM in august. Would be nice to take the car over and have a blast as well, we are on PistonHeads!

Looking at plans though they mention intervals/ specific speeds and strength training. I aren’t that serious. My question is could I do a marathon from just running?

Most of it would be slow to just get miles in. I could run a half marathon now, wouldn’t be fast but it wouldn’t be a problem. My furthest run is about 16/17 miles I have ever done and I have done 120 mile months in the past. Although no where near that now. Just been ticking over doing 50 mile months over winter!

The other thing I never fuel/ drink on my runs either.

For some reason loads of my club got entries into London this year, the thing a lot of them say they find hardest is to juggle the sheer amount of time running with all the other things they have to do in their lives - most plans seem to have four 45+ minute midweek runs then a long run on a Sunday which can be hard to squeeze in.

[redrabbit29]

keo said:

Looking at plans though they mention intervals/ specific speeds and strength training. I aren’t that serious. My question is could I do a marathon from just running?

Most of it would be slow to just get miles in

You're describing "junk miles" there. A phrase to mean doing miles just for the sake of doing miles.

A long run is a staple in most running plans and that's fine. Where the "sessions" are valuable, those quicker ones, or intervals are that they acheive a lot in a short space of time. They also get you running quicker and fitter due to the fluctuating heart rate and tempo.

You don't have to be serious, but instead of just looking at miles, maybe look more at what the point of a particular run is. So rather than just doing 5 miles on a Wednesday because you want to get your mileage up, do:

1 mile warm up.
1 mile at a faster pace
1 mile slow
1 mile fast
1 mile slow/cool down

You then achieve a similar thing there

As for fuelling, that is critical really. Running vests (the hydration ones I mean) are great. Decathlon have them for £30.

Get yourself some gels and electrolyte tablets and you'll feel way stronger over a prolonged period.

[joshcowin]

redrabbit29 said:

You're describing "junk miles" there. A phrase to mean doing miles just for the sake of doing miles.

A long run is a staple in most running plans and that's fine. Where the "sessions" are valuable, those quicker ones, or intervals are that they acheive a lot in a short space of time. They also get you running quicker and fitter due to the fluctuating heart rate and tempo.

You don't have to be serious, but instead of just looking at miles, maybe look more at what the point of a particular run is. So rather than just doing 5 miles on a Wednesday because you want to get your mileage up, do:

1 mile warm up.
1 mile at a faster pace
1 mile slow
1 mile fast
1 mile slow/cool down

You then achieve a similar thing there

As for fuelling, that is critical really. Running vests (the hydration ones I mean) are great. Decathlon have them for £30.

Get yourself some gels and electrolyte tablets and you'll feel way stronger over a prolonged period.

I cant get my head around this 'junk miles' thing, surely any running is good as it builds fatigue and will cause the body to adapt. For example the poster we are replying to wants to run a marathon, I could argue that the workout you posted has zero relevance to him/her plodding around the marathon in 5 hours. building their aerobic base could be more beneficial than increasing their v02 etc... Running on tired legs at a slow pace is what the poster will experience on marathon day, why not simulate that in training by running loads of slow miles all week and carrying that fatigue into the weekend long run?

I am not arguing more talking something through that I have thought for a while. I accept your post is credible and is the accepted way of looking at it. Its also what I do (interval sessions and steady progressive runs), can you tell I don't have people to chat running to

[jm8403]

joshcowin said:

I cant get my head around this 'junk miles' thing, surely any running is good as it builds fatigue and will cause the body to adapt. For example the poster we are replying to wants to run a marathon, I could argue that the workout you posted has zero relevance to him/her plodding around the marathon in 5 hours. building their aerobic base could be more beneficial than increasing their v02 etc... Running on tired legs at a slow pace is what the poster will experience on marathon day, why not simulate that in training by running loads of slow miles all week and carrying that fatigue into the weekend long run?

I am not arguing more talking something through that I have thought for a while. I accept your post is credible and is the accepted way of looking at it. Its also what I do (interval sessions and steady progressive runs), can you tell I don't have people to chat running to

It took me a while too. Junk miles usually means: miles that could be run better, i.e. with a strategy or goal in hand. The vast majority of club runners/joggers run all their runs in 6-8/10 effort pace meaning the slow runs are too fast and the faster runs suffer as you have fatigue you would be better off without. This applies more so to the runner trying to get from 4hr marathon to 3hr 30 or 3hrs, but of course, every runner would benefit from dedicated slower days, leaving energy for the 'reps'/'fartlek'.

[smn159]

jm8403 said:

joshcowin said:

I cant get my head around this 'junk miles' thing, surely any running is good as it builds fatigue and will cause the body to adapt. For example the poster we are replying to wants to run a marathon, I could argue that the workout you posted has zero relevance to him/her plodding around the marathon in 5 hours. building their aerobic base could be more beneficial than increasing their v02 etc... Running on tired legs at a slow pace is what the poster will experience on marathon day, why not simulate that in training by running loads of slow miles all week and carrying that fatigue into the weekend long run?

I am not arguing more talking something through that I have thought for a while. I accept your post is credible and is the accepted way of looking at it. Its also what I do (interval sessions and steady progressive runs), can you tell I don't have people to chat running to

It took me a while too. Junk miles usually means: miles that could be run better, i.e. with a strategy or goal in hand. The vast majority of club runners/joggers run all their runs in 6-8/10 effort pace meaning the slow runs are too fast and the faster runs suffer as you have fatigue you would be better off without. This applies more so to the runner trying to get from 4hr marathon to 3hr 30 or 3hrs, but of course, every runner would benefit from dedicated slower days, leaving energy for the 'reps'/'fartlek'.

Exclusively slow running tends to promote poor form as well, shuffling rather than picking your knees up and a tendency to heel strike, landing ahead of your centre of gravity on a straight leg, which puts excessive loading through the knee and hips. Doing all of your runs at the same slow pace means little variety in the loadings, making overuse injuries more likely.

Variation is important as different paces train different systems in your body. Even speed intervals are useful occasionally for marathon runners as they tend to reinforce good running form.