Discussion
PhilboSE said:
Today hasn’t made Lions selection for #10 any easier. Crawley and Prendergast haven’t been great, Finn Russell has made some of his errors today. Fin Smith had a good few games but not much experience at top level as yet. Marcus Smith too hard to form a team around, George Ford not much game time, O Farrell too injured.
Overall probably Finn Russell starts but only because of his experience and the backs will be all Irish and Scottish so he’ll be playing with a few mates.
I’d be very nervous with Finn R as the first pick Lions 10. He can cough up 7 points out of nothing just as easily as he can create 7. Not sure who’d I’d go with. Maybe pick the rest of the back division first then see who fits. Gibson Park must be inked in at 9, Aki probably at 13. 12 isn’t that obvious. Overall probably Finn Russell starts but only because of his experience and the backs will be all Irish and Scottish so he’ll be playing with a few mates.
McGee_22 said:
MontyPythonX said:
Silverbullet767 said:
And that flying headbutt decision was completely wrong. No one had the ball.
Agree. The low degree of danger or whatever should instantly be over-ruled when it's serious foul play!
BlackTails said:
PhilboSE said:
Today hasn’t made Lions selection for #10 any easier. Crawley and Prendergast haven’t been great, Finn Russell has made some of his errors today. Fin Smith had a good few games but not much experience at top level as yet. Marcus Smith too hard to form a team around, George Ford not much game time, O Farrell too injured.
Overall probably Finn Russell starts but only because of his experience and the backs will be all Irish and Scottish so he’ll be playing with a few mates.
I’d be very nervous with Finn R as the first pick Lions 10. He can cough up 7 points out of nothing just as easily as he can create 7. Not sure who’d I’d go with. Maybe pick the rest of the back division first then see who fits. Gibson Park must be inked in at 9, Aki probably at 13. 12 isn’t that obvious. Overall probably Finn Russell starts but only because of his experience and the backs will be all Irish and Scottish so he’ll be playing with a few mates.
JGP has as many poor, anonymous days as he does good. Given AF is Lions coach tho, you would presume he is his first choice. White has forced his way into contention though, he has been getting better and better for the last 2-3 seasons.
Blair is nailed on 15, Lowe at 11. DvDM goes missing in some games is unplayable in others. I like Mack the knife, I think he has excellent skills.
Finn x 2 for no 10.
Huw Jones and Aki at centre, Ollie L and Tom Jordan as backups. Ringrose isn’t at the level he was currently, we will have to see how ST comes back from injury.
Back row? Pick any from Curry x 2, Earl, Willis, Morgan, Cunningham-South, Conan, Doris.
Blair is nailed on 15, Lowe at 11. DvDM goes missing in some games is unplayable in others. I like Mack the knife, I think he has excellent skills.
Finn x 2 for no 10.
Huw Jones and Aki at centre, Ollie L and Tom Jordan as backups. Ringrose isn’t at the level he was currently, we will have to see how ST comes back from injury.
Back row? Pick any from Curry x 2, Earl, Willis, Morgan, Cunningham-South, Conan, Doris.
I hope the Ref’s review the 6N as a whole; lots of forward passes missed, some dubious yellow decisions at times and some reds missed and just how many lifting tackles did Carley miss in the competition finale?!?!
From an England perspective Fin Smith must have his hat in the ring for the Lions alongside the more predictable choices but I don’t get the commentators love for Mitchell - very slow at the breakdown throughout the competition which would be hugely exposed on a Lions Tour as well as some wayward kicking and decision making sometimes.
From an England perspective Fin Smith must have his hat in the ring for the Lions alongside the more predictable choices but I don’t get the commentators love for Mitchell - very slow at the breakdown throughout the competition which would be hugely exposed on a Lions Tour as well as some wayward kicking and decision making sometimes.
England absolutely monstered us, extremely clinical and well played. Mitchell was excellent, kicking fantastic. Far better Centre partnership too.
Still don’t rate Smith at fullback. Absolute show pony, he’d be a mare to play with, so unpredictable. Daley is so underrated. Itoje had his best games for years, very few pens all round. Fin smith plays like a seasoned 10. Curries red hot, and even oddball Earl.
Men against boys, but we needed a drubbing to get things changed structurally.
Scotland were manic in first half, tackled everything, excellent. Again, FR like Townsend, either mercurial or absolutely awful. Too cool for school at times and will cost them as much as he brings. Fin Smith starts at 10 as a Lion, Crawley second. He’s that good.
Morgan only Welsh player to travel.
France a team apart. Best tournament in any sport on the planet but a country mile.
TBH Aussies are nowhere near where they were, and it’s a shame the Lions are there rather than SA or NZ for me personally. I’ve not the same enthusiasm for this Tour…at all.
Still don’t rate Smith at fullback. Absolute show pony, he’d be a mare to play with, so unpredictable. Daley is so underrated. Itoje had his best games for years, very few pens all round. Fin smith plays like a seasoned 10. Curries red hot, and even oddball Earl.
Men against boys, but we needed a drubbing to get things changed structurally.
Scotland were manic in first half, tackled everything, excellent. Again, FR like Townsend, either mercurial or absolutely awful. Too cool for school at times and will cost them as much as he brings. Fin Smith starts at 10 as a Lion, Crawley second. He’s that good.
Morgan only Welsh player to travel.
France a team apart. Best tournament in any sport on the planet but a country mile.
TBH Aussies are nowhere near where they were, and it’s a shame the Lions are there rather than SA or NZ for me personally. I’ve not the same enthusiasm for this Tour…at all.
Robbo66 said:
England absolutely monstered us, extremely clinical and well played. Mitchell was excellent, kicking fantastic. Far better Centre partnership too.
Still don’t rate Smith at fullback. Absolute show pony, he’d be a mare to play with, so unpredictable. Daley is so underrated. Itoje had his best games for years, very few pens all round. Fin smith plays like a seasoned 10. Curries red hot, and even oddball Earl.
Men against boys, but we needed a drubbing to get things changed structurally.
Scotland were manic in first half, tackled everything, excellent. Again, FR like Townsend, either mercurial or absolutely awful. Too cool for school at times and will cost them as much as he brings. Fin Smith starts at 10 as a Lion, Crawley second. He’s that good.
Morgan only Welsh player to travel.
France a team apart. Best tournament in any sport on the planet but a country mile.
TBH Aussies are nowhere near where they were, and it’s a shame the Lions are there rather than SA or NZ for me personally. I’ve not the same enthusiasm for this Tour…at all.
I think that’s a pretty good summary. Still don’t rate Smith at fullback. Absolute show pony, he’d be a mare to play with, so unpredictable. Daley is so underrated. Itoje had his best games for years, very few pens all round. Fin smith plays like a seasoned 10. Curries red hot, and even oddball Earl.
Men against boys, but we needed a drubbing to get things changed structurally.
Scotland were manic in first half, tackled everything, excellent. Again, FR like Townsend, either mercurial or absolutely awful. Too cool for school at times and will cost them as much as he brings. Fin Smith starts at 10 as a Lion, Crawley second. He’s that good.
Morgan only Welsh player to travel.
France a team apart. Best tournament in any sport on the planet but a country mile.
TBH Aussies are nowhere near where they were, and it’s a shame the Lions are there rather than SA or NZ for me personally. I’ve not the same enthusiasm for this Tour…at all.
Regarding the Lions, I do hope that Australia continue their improvement. The Lions have a surplus of great options up front now and if we’re routinely monstering them up front it doesn’t really matter so much which option they take at 10.
phil_cardiff said:
Well done England, extremely efficient today. And I take my hat off to them for their relentless approach. As it should be.
And to the WRU, those debt repayments and wars with the professional sides don't seem worth it anymore, do they? Tonight we witnessed the culmination of 20 years of mismanagement.
Yep, agree on all points, whole situation is crazy, I know we don’t agree on how to fix the game in wales in terms of club and regional structure but something needs to happen, something very big! Yesterday should serve as a wake up call to the WRU but I suspect they’ll just trundle along without true purpose, direction, strategy or accountability. Sad times really.And to the WRU, those debt repayments and wars with the professional sides don't seem worth it anymore, do they? Tonight we witnessed the culmination of 20 years of mismanagement.
And chapeau again to England, superbly played and well deserved.
Stella Tortoise said:
DodgyGeezer said:
I know the RFU requested that Delilah not be used wasn't the same request made WRT hymns, or am I imagining that?
You for real?Let’s just stick with slave songs eh?
Anywho, moving on. It turns out that if we were to use modern points for all Eng/Wal games this is nowhere near the biggest victory we've had. By my reckoning that'd have been 86-0 about 135 years ago - though given different tactics etc any sort of comparison is impossible
Ireland looked subdued yesterday, I'd have expected them to put up a cricket score with an extra player for a quarter of the match.
Italy continue their steady progress, they stay in the game for longer now.
Wales were poor again.No discernible game plan.
England? Monster forwards performance, almost like watching England 20 years ago. Right now the Currys would be my 6 and 7 in Australia. Also, Fin Smith put himself ahead of Prendergast and Crowley IMO. Bearing in mind you want your Lions' captain to be a sure starter Itoje's last couple of performances put him in a straight shoot-out with Doris.
Scotland much as expected. Competitive until the forwards tire/get replaced. The backs continue to be inventive and test defences. I thought we'd struggle without Tuipoloto but Tom Jordan stepped up well. Russell needs to do less moaning to the ref...
France? team of the tournament and deserved winners for me. I'm already looking forward to a seismic event when their pack meets England's next year. It's hard to see any weaknesses.
More debatable refereeing decisions unfortunately. I'm always trying to give them the benefit of the doubt and say that these things make me appreciate just how bloody good the best ones are rather than saying the lesser ones are rubbish, It's sometimes hard though with some of the strange decisions, particularly the Mauvaka one. It goes both ways though, sometimes your team gets the lucky break.
Complaining about 7-1 split benches is pointless and just sounds like sour grapes. i may not like it or agree with it, but them's the rules for now, so suck it up.
Italy continue their steady progress, they stay in the game for longer now.
Wales were poor again.No discernible game plan.
England? Monster forwards performance, almost like watching England 20 years ago. Right now the Currys would be my 6 and 7 in Australia. Also, Fin Smith put himself ahead of Prendergast and Crowley IMO. Bearing in mind you want your Lions' captain to be a sure starter Itoje's last couple of performances put him in a straight shoot-out with Doris.
Scotland much as expected. Competitive until the forwards tire/get replaced. The backs continue to be inventive and test defences. I thought we'd struggle without Tuipoloto but Tom Jordan stepped up well. Russell needs to do less moaning to the ref...
France? team of the tournament and deserved winners for me. I'm already looking forward to a seismic event when their pack meets England's next year. It's hard to see any weaknesses.
More debatable refereeing decisions unfortunately. I'm always trying to give them the benefit of the doubt and say that these things make me appreciate just how bloody good the best ones are rather than saying the lesser ones are rubbish, It's sometimes hard though with some of the strange decisions, particularly the Mauvaka one. It goes both ways though, sometimes your team gets the lucky break.
Complaining about 7-1 split benches is pointless and just sounds like sour grapes. i may not like it or agree with it, but them's the rules for now, so suck it up.
Edited by DocJock on Sunday 16th March 08:55
Boom78 said:
phil_cardiff said:
Well done England, extremely efficient today. And I take my hat off to them for their relentless approach. As it should be.
And to the WRU, those debt repayments and wars with the professional sides don't seem worth it anymore, do they? Tonight we witnessed the culmination of 20 years of mismanagement.
Yep, agree on all points, whole situation is crazy, I know we don’t agree on how to fix the game in wales in terms of club and regional structure but something needs to happen, something very big! Yesterday should serve as a wake up call to the WRU but I suspect they’ll just trundle along without true purpose, direction, strategy or accountability. Sad times really.And to the WRU, those debt repayments and wars with the professional sides don't seem worth it anymore, do they? Tonight we witnessed the culmination of 20 years of mismanagement.
And chapeau again to England, superbly played and well deserved.
DocJock said:
Complaining about 7-1 split benches is pointless and just sounds like sour grapes. i may not like it or agree with it, but them's the rules for now, so suck it up.
I think it needs to be continually reiterated that it's ruining the sport. I'm in full agreement with the likes of Princess Anne that it has changed the sport fundamentally for the worse.Ultimately with the six nations, it will be a two tier competition if France, England and Ireland maximise the use of their player base. Scotland, Wales and Italy will never have the depth to effectively be able to field two full top teams.
They will produce results against the head occasionally, but it is not a level playing field.
I'd argue that it's 8 tactical substitutes that's ruining things.
The expanded bench was introduced to cover injuries, particularly to front row forwards, in the name of safety. IMO it's had the opposite effect. I know we'll never get rid of tactical subs, because players will just be coached in how to appear 'injured' if tactical replacements were to be banned.
The expanded bench was introduced to cover injuries, particularly to front row forwards, in the name of safety. IMO it's had the opposite effect. I know we'll never get rid of tactical subs, because players will just be coached in how to appear 'injured' if tactical replacements were to be banned.
DocJock said:
I'd argue that it's 8 tactical substitutes that's ruining things.
The expanded bench was introduced to cover injuries, particularly to front row forwards, in the name of safety. IMO it's had the opposite effect. I know we'll never get rid of tactical subs, because players will just be coached in how to appear 'injured' if tactical replacements were to be banned.
I agree entirely. Halve the number of subs. At least eleven need to know that they are playing a full 80 mins. The expanded bench was introduced to cover injuries, particularly to front row forwards, in the name of safety. IMO it's had the opposite effect. I know we'll never get rid of tactical subs, because players will just be coached in how to appear 'injured' if tactical replacements were to be banned.
Reducing the number of subs means that player physique (particularly in the pack) will change from power to athleticism/fitness. Also in the “good old days” players would tire in the last quarter and open up space - now this rarely happens. I commented yesterday on how Genge has bulked up - obviously he decided (or been told) he’s got to be an 18 stone powerhouse to avoid getting monstered at the scrum.
I just don’t see the point of bringing subs on for the last 5 minutes of a match - obviously it gets them the match bonus fee but it does rather demean the value of a cap if most of them have been gained from playing 15 minutes.
Lions picks will be interesting. I wouldn’t have picked many English players to be on the plane after the first couple of rounds but they’ve really progressed through the tournament. Fin Smith probably put his hand up the most for the #10 shirt on form and being someone that could slot in with unfamiliar players.
I don’t hold anything too great against project players picked for national teams, but personally I think that British & Irish Lions should be made up of, well, British & Irish players. Qualifying to play for a country (particularly on 3 year residency terms) doesn’t equate to being that nationality.
Would a (conceivable) back line of
Gibson Park
Tuipolutu
Aki
Lowe
Hansen
Van der meuwe
really be ”British & Irish” or would it look more like an invitational team? Imagine the Australian headlines when we beat them.
I just don’t see the point of bringing subs on for the last 5 minutes of a match - obviously it gets them the match bonus fee but it does rather demean the value of a cap if most of them have been gained from playing 15 minutes.
Lions picks will be interesting. I wouldn’t have picked many English players to be on the plane after the first couple of rounds but they’ve really progressed through the tournament. Fin Smith probably put his hand up the most for the #10 shirt on form and being someone that could slot in with unfamiliar players.
I don’t hold anything too great against project players picked for national teams, but personally I think that British & Irish Lions should be made up of, well, British & Irish players. Qualifying to play for a country (particularly on 3 year residency terms) doesn’t equate to being that nationality.
Would a (conceivable) back line of
Gibson Park
Tuipolutu
Aki
Lowe
Hansen
Van der meuwe
really be ”British & Irish” or would it look more like an invitational team? Imagine the Australian headlines when we beat them.
Edited by PhilboSE on Sunday 16th March 16:38
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