Cyclists in London
Discussion
Ahah, this isn't the rant you were looking for[/ObiWan]
No, I just wanted to comment that, as I haven't been working in London since before I returned to cycling, how exciting I find the cyclists as they steam along roads that other road users are crawling along. It seems so obvious to me that vast portions of the city ought to be given over to cycling as it seems such an efficient way of getting about.
And to any of you cycling on any route between Bank and the Gherkin, I apologise if it's you I'm staring at. I must look like a right tourist (I am actually on my way to work) as I stand on an intersection with the pedestrian crossing light on green, while I compare the half dozen or so bikes lined up waiting to go. I can't decide which makes for the best London-bike... the Bromptons, the MTBs with slick tyres, the roadies, a couple of disc-braked roadies (must be CX bikes?), the rigid hybrids or the front sus hybrids. All seemed to move at a pace a significant factor greater than any other road user.
In fact, even the Boris bikes seem to be moving along with aplomb. They do look heavy though.
No, I just wanted to comment that, as I haven't been working in London since before I returned to cycling, how exciting I find the cyclists as they steam along roads that other road users are crawling along. It seems so obvious to me that vast portions of the city ought to be given over to cycling as it seems such an efficient way of getting about.
And to any of you cycling on any route between Bank and the Gherkin, I apologise if it's you I'm staring at. I must look like a right tourist (I am actually on my way to work) as I stand on an intersection with the pedestrian crossing light on green, while I compare the half dozen or so bikes lined up waiting to go. I can't decide which makes for the best London-bike... the Bromptons, the MTBs with slick tyres, the roadies, a couple of disc-braked roadies (must be CX bikes?), the rigid hybrids or the front sus hybrids. All seemed to move at a pace a significant factor greater than any other road user.
In fact, even the Boris bikes seem to be moving along with aplomb. They do look heavy though.
No, cyclists in London shouldn't be given priority. They are road users along with cars, buses, pedestrians, delivery vehicles and taxis. Just because their occupation of physical space is smaller doesn't mean they deserve preferential treatment.
And no, I am not anti-cyclist in the slightest. There is space for all road users on the road if everyone behaves with some courtesy, consideration and observation. What I do object to is the prioritisation of one set of road users over another based on little more than attempts at eco-taxation and pandering to the green lobby.
Edited to add that working in central London I've noticed the rise in cycling especially with the Boris bikes in the last couple of years and I think it's good generally. Some of the less experienced among you could do with improving the balance between observation, adherence to the highway code and accepting that you are not single-handedly saving the planet but we'll get there. Literally and metaphorically.
And no, I am not anti-cyclist in the slightest. There is space for all road users on the road if everyone behaves with some courtesy, consideration and observation. What I do object to is the prioritisation of one set of road users over another based on little more than attempts at eco-taxation and pandering to the green lobby.
Edited to add that working in central London I've noticed the rise in cycling especially with the Boris bikes in the last couple of years and I think it's good generally. Some of the less experienced among you could do with improving the balance between observation, adherence to the highway code and accepting that you are not single-handedly saving the planet but we'll get there. Literally and metaphorically.
Edited by Silver on Tuesday 19th July 21:28
I have no political agenda. I just see from an outsider's PoV how motor-based 4-or-more-wheeled transport seems to cause the roads to jam-up pretty quickly. In other countries where (admittedly smaller) cities are given over to none-motorised transport, people just seem to move around that much quicker and more efficiently.
Whilst I was gawping at the variety of bikes on offer today, I noticed that when the lights changed to green, only 1, 2, or 3 cars could actually move to the other side of the junction because the road ahead was jammed up. It just seems such a daft idea letting private vehicles into the city at all. I guess politicians half hoped people would stop driving there when they introduced the congestion charge... although I suspect they also WANTED people to drive there to earn the revenue. Regardless, I see no decrease in the traffic since I started working in London (off and on) in the late 1980s, just a steady year-on-year increase until around the time of the congestion charge when it just seemed to saturate.
Whilst I was gawping at the variety of bikes on offer today, I noticed that when the lights changed to green, only 1, 2, or 3 cars could actually move to the other side of the junction because the road ahead was jammed up. It just seems such a daft idea letting private vehicles into the city at all. I guess politicians half hoped people would stop driving there when they introduced the congestion charge... although I suspect they also WANTED people to drive there to earn the revenue. Regardless, I see no decrease in the traffic since I started working in London (off and on) in the late 1980s, just a steady year-on-year increase until around the time of the congestion charge when it just seemed to saturate.
Mars said:
I have no political agenda. I just see from an outsider's PoV how motor-based 4-or-more-wheeled transport seems to cause the roads to jam-up pretty quickly. In other countries where (admittedly smaller) cities are given over to none-motorised transport, people just seem to move around that much quicker and more efficiently.
Whilst I was gawping at the variety of bikes on offer today, I noticed that when the lights changed to green, only 1, 2, or 3 cars could actually move to the other side of the junction because the road ahead was jammed up. It just seems such a daft idea letting private vehicles into the city at all. I guess politicians half hoped people would stop driving there when they introduced the congestion charge... although I suspect they also WANTED people to drive there to earn the revenue. Regardless, I see no decrease in the traffic since I started working in London (off and on) in the late 1980s, just a steady year-on-year increase until around the time of the congestion charge when it just seemed to saturate.
OK, you're right up to a point.Whilst I was gawping at the variety of bikes on offer today, I noticed that when the lights changed to green, only 1, 2, or 3 cars could actually move to the other side of the junction because the road ahead was jammed up. It just seems such a daft idea letting private vehicles into the city at all. I guess politicians half hoped people would stop driving there when they introduced the congestion charge... although I suspect they also WANTED people to drive there to earn the revenue. Regardless, I see no decrease in the traffic since I started working in London (off and on) in the late 1980s, just a steady year-on-year increase until around the time of the congestion charge when it just seemed to saturate.
Yes, bigger vehicles do cause traffic to move slower - they have to queue at junctions and lights and often you get people who are slow to move off on a green light. Nothing that can be done to change that and the fact that some cyclists think they should suddenly be given right of way for environmental or congestion reasons isn't going to make any diference.
It's just not possible for commercial reasons for London or any other city to completely ban vehicles. It's very easy for the anti brigade to see London's traffic as consisting solely of selfish 4x4 drivers who are determined to drive no matter what. The majority of people who drive private cars in central London are doing it because either they have to or because they don't care about the CC. TfL themselves have published a report which states that the CC hasn't made a difference to traffic congestion.
Which brings me on to your point about the CC. Aside from the fact that I disagree with it because it's a tax on congestion as opposed to a deterrent, people who have to drive in central London do so because they have no choice and people who are well-paid enough not to care will pay the CC regardless of how much it is.
Just as a side note, Ken Livingstone wanted to prioritise road traffic across London to favour cyclists and pedestrians but this was reversed by Boris Johnson who wanted the priorities to depend on the area and the traffic that used it.
Edited by Silver on Tuesday 19th July 21:48
You are still politicising my point. I am not advocating giving the city over to cyclists for environmental or any other reason other than efficiency. In fact I'm not really advocating it at all, only making a note how much more efficiently cyclists moved about their business today compared with just about everyone else.
The real point of my post was simply my enjoyment of the diversity of bikes on offer.
... and when did the tube get so completely rammed? I always remember having ~10cm of "personal space". It's like the front row of a rock concert these days.
The real point of my post was simply my enjoyment of the diversity of bikes on offer.
... and when did the tube get so completely rammed? I always remember having ~10cm of "personal space". It's like the front row of a rock concert these days.
It's wonderfully liberating cycling in London. As soon as you get competent and stop feeling threatened it feels like you've been given the key to the city.
I reckon that point to point within the circle line you're faster than any other mode of transport and I'm no lycra speed freak.
It's best when there's a tube strike on - the horror of queues for busses and grid locked traffic mean nothing as you slice through London like a Latte powered homing missle.
I've been cycling daily in London for 10 years near enough. I've only had 2 falls both only involving me and totally my own fault, and I've never had any major altercations with other road users. Route planning is a big part of it, there's always a nicer way to get from A-B.
I reckon that point to point within the circle line you're faster than any other mode of transport and I'm no lycra speed freak.
It's best when there's a tube strike on - the horror of queues for busses and grid locked traffic mean nothing as you slice through London like a Latte powered homing missle.
I've been cycling daily in London for 10 years near enough. I've only had 2 falls both only involving me and totally my own fault, and I've never had any major altercations with other road users. Route planning is a big part of it, there's always a nicer way to get from A-B.
Cycling in London is easily the best way to get around - so long as it's dry and there's a shower at the end of the journey!
My route to work is 8 miles and door to door it's quicker than walking to the station, getting the train and walking to the office at the other end.
Now the weather has improved I see a lot more cyclists out - it's a shame most of them seem to be totally clueless about what's going on around them. God knows how they survive...
My route to work is 8 miles and door to door it's quicker than walking to the station, getting the train and walking to the office at the other end.
Now the weather has improved I see a lot more cyclists out - it's a shame most of them seem to be totally clueless about what's going on around them. God knows how they survive...
Worst thing about a tube stirke for regular cyclists?
First those that pull out the 23 year old hack from the garag and wobble their way in paying attention to no one and almost killing themselves and others several times..
Second bigger bus queues with lots of people spilling out on to the road and dropping off kerbs in front of you...
Aside from that - yep lovely to be at home eating dinner with the family whilst watching the news reporting "stranded" commuters taking 3-4h to get home.
Just a shame I'm currently stuck 50% working in South Africa instead of using my bike to commute to London everyday :-(
First those that pull out the 23 year old hack from the garag and wobble their way in paying attention to no one and almost killing themselves and others several times..
Second bigger bus queues with lots of people spilling out on to the road and dropping off kerbs in front of you...
Aside from that - yep lovely to be at home eating dinner with the family whilst watching the news reporting "stranded" commuters taking 3-4h to get home.
Just a shame I'm currently stuck 50% working in South Africa instead of using my bike to commute to London everyday :-(
Silver said:
No, cyclists in London shouldn't be given priority. They are road users along with cars, buses, pedestrians, delivery vehicles and taxis. Just because their occupation of physical space is smaller doesn't mean they deserve preferential treatment.
And no, I am not anti-cyclist in the slightest. There is space for all road users on the road if everyone behaves with some courtesy, consideration and observation. What I do object to is the prioritisation of one set of road users over another based on little more than attempts at eco-taxation and pandering to the green lobby.
Edited to add that working in central London I've noticed the rise in cycling especially with the Boris bikes in the last couple of years and I think it's good generally. Some of the less experienced among you could do with improving the balance between observation, adherence to the highway code and accepting that you are not single-handedly saving the planet but we'll get there. Literally and metaphorically.
In theory I completely agree with that, but in practice I'm not sure how sustainable it is?And no, I am not anti-cyclist in the slightest. There is space for all road users on the road if everyone behaves with some courtesy, consideration and observation. What I do object to is the prioritisation of one set of road users over another based on little more than attempts at eco-taxation and pandering to the green lobby.
Edited to add that working in central London I've noticed the rise in cycling especially with the Boris bikes in the last couple of years and I think it's good generally. Some of the less experienced among you could do with improving the balance between observation, adherence to the highway code and accepting that you are not single-handedly saving the planet but we'll get there. Literally and metaphorically.
By "sustainable", I don't mean green. I simply mean having space to fit everyone in.
I commute in along CS7 which runs up the A24 and A3, basically following the route of the Northern Line. I rather sadly counted the number of sets of traffic lights on the route home earlier in the week, and in the first 8 or so miles, there are on average a set of lights every 150 yards. At the busier sets of lights (Vauxhall, Kennington, Stockwell etc), there will frequently be as many as 30 cyclists waiting at the lights, and that fills up the advanced stop box and maybe 5-10 yards of the cycle lane back up the carriageway.
If you took all the cyclists off their bikes and put them into cars, then you're adding well over an additional 150 yards of cars onto the road at each of those junctions, and the cars are already largely nose to tail. Where would you put them all?
Of course, not all the cyclists would drive in, but trains and tubes aren't exactly full of space either. Set aside all the politics of any sort whatsoever, and in a city like London, it has to make sense to do everything possible to encourage people to minimise the space they take up as they move around the place.
How people take up less space really shouldn't matter, but short of spending countless billions building double-deck roads or something, the space we have in London is finite, yet population isn't getting any smaller, and the size of the average car has rocketed over the last few decades.
Time to go Dutch - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qk6YxhKH590
henrycrun said:
Time to go Dutch - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qk6YxhKH590
Spot the young Fabio Capello at 1min 52sec, and the illegal carrying of a passenger on a cycle neither constructed nor converted for such purpose at 2min 08sec. 
Edited by yellowjack on Saturday 23 July 00:24
Gassing Station | Pedal Powered | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff