S2000 - why such a range of values

S2000 - why such a range of values

Author
Discussion

Orangecurry

Original Poster:

6,285 posts

162 months

Monday 29th June
quotequote all
...on cars currently for sale.

Are there years/versions to avoid?

6k to 14k, and it's not always directly connected to mileage?

Is it all about rust?

Does an increase in VED really make any difference to value?

Please educate me smile

Thanks!

mstrbkr

7,523 posts

154 months

Monday 29th June
quotequote all
You're right to point out the variation in values. They're all over the place! The variation, I believe, is that people think the car is rare enough to raise their asking price regardless of the condition. It makes finding the right car very difficult. When you view one you must check over it very well and almost ignore their asking price. I bought my second one in January this year and values were just as scattered.

Some things that really raise or lower values are:
-Number 1 spec related value differentiator is Nurburgring blue paint, especially with the blue interior. By far the least popular colour. Personally I wouldn't even consider one in this colour. So values of these are well below every other colour. They take months to sell.
-To some extent, cars registered from March 2006 to some time in 2007 are less desirable due to higher VED but without many differences to cars from 2005 to early 2006. But now the cars are 15 years old I think this is becoming less and less of a sticking point.
-Facelift cars from late 2003 have a number of additions and improvements. So late 2003 to early 2006 are popular.
-Rust is a factor but people will price a bad car high regardless of the condition because it's an S2000. There are under 50 for sale on Autotrader and it's summer. Not many to choose from!

Edit: I don't really believe there is a particular year to avoid as such. Some are just a little more desirable than others (which is subjective). I forget the actual date but some time during 2006/7 the cars lost the cable throttle and got fly by wire throttle, and traction control was added. Some dislike the these and some don't mind. There were some issues with the 2009 engines. Also anything over 100k miles seems to never sell!

Edited by mstrbkr on Monday 29th June 13:51

Orangecurry

Original Poster:

6,285 posts

162 months

Monday 29th June
quotequote all
Thanks - useful points.

BevR

505 posts

99 months

Monday 29th June
quotequote all
Is it possible that most people looking at these now have an idea of the kind of maintenance that needs to be done once they reach an age? They may be willing to pay a little more for a car that has had the TCT, calipers, Geo bolts and a new roof all done semi-recently?


mikdys

184 posts

191 months

Monday 29th June
quotequote all
I'd agree late 2003 to early 2006 is the sweet spot. Earlier cars had slightly more fragile valve spring retainers that could start to crack due to an over-rev and then fail catastrophically after a long delay. They also burnt oil when driven hard (piston rings were re-designed to stop this on later models). 2008 cars on were built at different factory and some engines had wrongly sized thrust washers fitted casing engine noise and failure. Some cars had multiple engine replacements under warranty with the replacement engines failing. These weren't immediate failures but occurred over a period of time (with the usual arguments to get them fixed under warranty from what I can gather). I'd be worried, if I bought a later car, that the engine might have a latent fault waiting to fail after a few thousand miles.

The engine is fairly stressed and probably good for 100,000 reliable miles so it's probably wise to try to get one under 70,000 so you've got some life left in it.

Then there's price. I would guess the higher priced ones are for earlier cars in really good condition ("garage queens" as it were) where the owners are pushing for more money, or later cars where more is wanted because of their age. As noted above, I don't think later cars are worth having so I'd ignore those. This leaves the middle ground on price and it seems, from Auto Trader that sellers are asking around £12 for an under 70,000 mile car. There's a nice looking Silverstone 2004 with 66,000 miles on it for an asking price of £12k at the moment from a private seller whose owned it 10 years.

There's some useful buying info' over at S2Ki.com: https://www.s2ki.com/forums/uk-ireland-s2000-commu...
(I'd probably take their advice about "seized suspension bolts" with a pinch of salt - if the car you are looking at doesn't have abnormal tyre wear and handles OK I wouldn't worry about it [BTW it's normal for the insides of both front and rear tyres to wear a little more and as long as it's even and not excessive that's fine]).

trails

751 posts

105 months

Tuesday 30th June
quotequote all
mikdys said:
I'd agree late 2003 to early 2006 is the sweet spot. Earlier cars had slightly more fragile valve spring retainers that could start to crack due to an over-rev and then fail catastrophically after a long delay. They also burnt oil when driven hard (piston rings were re-designed to stop this on later models). 2008 cars on were built at different factory and some engines had wrongly sized thrust washers fitted casing engine noise and failure. Some cars had multiple engine replacements under warranty with the replacement engines failing. These weren't immediate failures but occurred over a period of time (with the usual arguments to get them fixed under warranty from what I can gather). I'd be worried, if I bought a later car, that the engine might have a latent fault waiting to fail after a few thousand miles.

The engine is fairly stressed and probably good for 100,000 reliable miles so it's probably wise to try to get one under 70,000 so you've got some life left in it.

Then there's price. I would guess the higher priced ones are for earlier cars in really good condition ("garage queens" as it were) where the owners are pushing for more money, or later cars where more is wanted because of their age. As noted above, I don't think later cars are worth having so I'd ignore those. This leaves the middle ground on price and it seems, from Auto Trader that sellers are asking around £12 for an under 70,000 mile car. There's a nice looking Silverstone 2004 with 66,000 miles on it for an asking price of £12k at the moment from a private seller whose owned it 10 years.

There's some useful buying info' over at S2Ki.com: https://www.s2ki.com/forums/uk-ireland-s2000-commu...
(I'd probably take their advice about "seized suspension bolts" with a pinch of salt - if the car you are looking at doesn't have abnormal tyre wear and handles OK I wouldn't worry about it [BTW it's normal for the insides of both front and rear tyres to wear a little more and as long as it's even and not excessive that's fine]).
Seized bolts are an utter pain, take them seriously; I'm trying to replace a single failed bush in a rear lateral arm and it's a case of lots of heat, hammering and cutting. A single bolt and nut was almost £30 too...there are lots of bolts in double wishbone suspension.

mikdys

184 posts

191 months

Tuesday 30th June
quotequote all
Depends when you need to loosen them - I'd suggest you don't need to touch the suspension bolts on an S2000 unless there is a failed bush or bent arm and these don't happen every day smile

griffter

3,444 posts

211 months

Tuesday 30th June
quotequote all
All the above is very fair.
04/05 cars are often referred to as the most desirable but as above it’s entirely subjective. If it’s a daily driver then more benign handling and a glass rear screen probably matter, but for me, for a weekend car, I wanted as early a car as possible for the purity and the cleaner looks (IMHO). The reputation for skittish handling is probably not a total myth but I’ve never encountered it. Good tyres and suspension go a long way in these. The tax is an issue, more for some than for others, but it’s a bigger issue when fixating on 2005 cars than if you’re set on a pre facelift or a post ‘06 with drive by wire etc.

Properly maintained the drive-trains are robust, but some do use oil (a litre / 1000 miles is entirely normal) and if left to run low the results can be catastrophic. But how do you tell after 20 years, 6 owners and 100,000 miles? A good service history and - IMHO - the opportunity to meet the current owner (as opposed to a dealer) are big advantages.

Rust is the big one though. People are spending over a thousand a side sorting out rotten rear arches. They’re double skinned and involved to do properly. Boot floors also go but they’re easy to inspect and simple to fix.

griffter

3,444 posts

211 months

Tuesday 30th June
quotequote all
Values wise I think the S2000 is an £8k car. Anything less won’t leave you with much change from £8k to get it all sorted and up to scratch. Everybody has different standards of course - some people don’t care about rust, others are happy to slap drifter wheel arch extensions on and live in denial. Others regard bolster wear and warm air con as inevitable and acceptable on an older car. Each to their own.

You’ll pay more for rare colours, mint wheels, bills for geo bolts being free, clutch, brakes suspension refurb etc. Anything into the mid teens should be very low miles (reduces but does not eradicate the risk of neglect) and/or very late. The 08/09 cars do see to command a premium.

At the bottom I think values are driven by the fact that a healthy engine, even with 100k+ miles is £3k+. For some reason they’re complex/expensive to rebuild. This means that a running car is worth £5k in bits, so that’s the bottom line.

The appeal to me of the S2000 is that it’s a simple car with a wonderful complex engine. If the engine’s good and it’s rust free, anything else can be fixed and there isn’t that much to go wrong

Orangecurry

Original Poster:

6,285 posts

162 months

Tuesday 30th June
quotequote all
Thanks all - a complex picture then and every car will be in a different state of the above large list of potential issues = large value spread.

mike74

2,004 posts

88 months

Tuesday 30th June
quotequote all
No different to the extraordinary range in values for most ''modern appreciating classics'' look at certain limited edition imprezas or evo TME's, you'll see some examples double the price or more of other comparable examples.



Orangecurry

Original Poster:

6,285 posts

162 months

Tuesday 30th June
quotequote all
...but that's easy to grasp, as they are limited editions smile

mike74

2,004 posts

88 months

Tuesday 30th June
quotequote all
Orangecurry said:
...but that's easy to grasp, as they are limited editions smile
It could be argued the S2000 is a limited edition!

And I meant double the price of other comparable limited editions i.e. one TME will be twice the price of another TME with comparable mileage and condition.

Gio G

2,458 posts

165 months

Tuesday 30th June
quotequote all
I noticed this last year when I was purchasing ours, prices were erratic, however we found allot of rubbish out there too, badly fixed panels etc. Seems to be very few non-modified cars out there too, which seem to reach better prices, which is a shame, given a few light mods helps the car..

I probably paid a bit of a premium for ours, however it had a fairly good history file over the 20 years and more importantly it was rust free, plus nothing else on the market at the time.

I noticed this come up on auction recently and the price felt about right, given mileage and history..

https://www.classiccarauctions.co.uk/events/2020-a...

Noticed that US cars go for allot more. This car is identical to ours from colour, interior and mileage perspective, went for over £18k, which was a bargain according to the comments!

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2001-honda-s2000...

G

Orangecurry

Original Poster:

6,285 posts

162 months

Tuesday 30th June
quotequote all
griffter said:
Rust is the big one though. People are spending over a thousand a side sorting out rotten rear arches. They’re double skinned and involved to do properly.
Thanks that's very useful - there's a cheap one for sale with exactly that issue.

Sevenon

101 posts

4 months

Tuesday 30th June
quotequote all
Absolutely gutted as I just lost out on a very cheap S2000 that I saw advertised on FB marketplace. I wonder if anyone else saw it?

It was a 54 plate Moonrock Grey black/black interior GT (with original stand) with 99k miles. Lady owner for last 7 years. Completely standard. 4 owners. Had brand new brake pads, callipers and 4 Falken tyres last year. Bad points were one rusty rear arch, bubbling on bonnet edge, scuffed alloys and stone chipped bumper. Mainly cosmetics.

She was asking for £6k !! I wanted to put down a deposit blind and pick it up this weekend. But she lived 2 hours away. A local dealer went to see it this morning and bought it off her frown

I bought a 04 Moonrock with 115k miles in Jan 2017 for £6,500. I sold it 18 months later with 119k miles on the clock for £8,700. I didn't want to sell it but had a newborn baby so decided to get a 997 instead.

Last year (Sept 2019) I saw a Moonrock 54 plate 64k miles 4 owners S2000 for sale asking £10,250. Just wasn't in a financial position to buy... another that got away.

I've been looking at the market pretty much everyday and they are getting rarer and pricier for sure. If anyone is looking to sell a 04-55 Moonrock please PM me smile

Orangecurry

Original Poster:

6,285 posts

162 months

Tuesday 30th June
quotequote all
...that would be difficult, as you don't allow it smile

griffter

3,444 posts

211 months

Tuesday 30th June
quotequote all
Sevenon said:
Absolutely gutted as I just lost out on a very cheap S2000 that I saw advertised on FB marketplace. I wonder if anyone else saw it?

It was a 54 plate Moonrock Grey black/black interior GT (with original stand) with 99k miles. Lady owner for last 7 years. Completely standard. 4 owners. Had brand new brake pads, callipers and 4 Falken tyres last year. Bad points were one rusty rear arch, bubbling on bonnet edge, scuffed alloys and stone chipped bumper. Mainly cosmetics.

She was asking for £6k !! I wanted to put down a deposit blind and pick it up this weekend. But she lived 2 hours away. A local dealer went to see it this morning and bought it off her frown

I bought a 04 Moonrock with 115k miles in Jan 2017 for £6,500. I sold it 18 months later with 119k miles on the clock for £8,700. I didn't want to sell it but had a newborn baby so decided to get a 997 instead.

Last year (Sept 2019) I saw a Moonrock 54 plate 64k miles 4 owners S2000 for sale asking £10,250. Just wasn't in a financial position to buy... another that got away.

I've been looking at the market pretty much everyday and they are getting rarer and pricier for sure. If anyone is looking to sell a 04-55 Moonrock please PM me smile
I saw that car yesterday too. It was cheap, but there was a good few £thousand needing doing to sort the arches, at least one sill, the wheels and the paint.
I’m not sure I was encouraged to put a lot of credence in the fact that the lady owner for the last seven years had parked by touch and let it get into that state. I imagine the hard brake pipes would also have needed doing, clutch unknown etc. But I’m good at talking myself out of cars I’ve missed!

Gio G

2,458 posts

165 months

Tuesday 30th June
quotequote all
When I was on the hunt for ours, a local Honda dealer had a car, described to me as a perfect example, 2007 car, 35k miles, had been serviced very regularly, salesman emailing me the service book with 15 stamps to impress me. I viewed the car in the evening and the wheels were just freshly refurbished, which rang alarm bells, then noticed every single panel was scratched, the roof had terrible mould around the edges and partly ripped. Also sucker cup marks on the front wings..

It clearly led a hard life for it's 35k miles and they wanted over £17k for it, as it would have had a warranty on it.. Such a shame treat these cars like this..

G

mike74

2,004 posts

88 months

Tuesday 30th June
quotequote all
griffter said:
Sevenon said:
Absolutely gutted as I just lost out on a very cheap S2000 that I saw advertised on FB marketplace. I wonder if anyone else saw it?

It was a 54 plate Moonrock Grey black/black interior GT (with original stand) with 99k miles. Lady owner for last 7 years. Completely standard. 4 owners. Had brand new brake pads, callipers and 4 Falken tyres last year. Bad points were one rusty rear arch, bubbling on bonnet edge, scuffed alloys and stone chipped bumper. Mainly cosmetics.

She was asking for £6k !! I wanted to put down a deposit blind and pick it up this weekend. But she lived 2 hours away. A local dealer went to see it this morning and bought it off her frown

I bought a 04 Moonrock with 115k miles in Jan 2017 for £6,500. I sold it 18 months later with 119k miles on the clock for £8,700. I didn't want to sell it but had a newborn baby so decided to get a 997 instead.

Last year (Sept 2019) I saw a Moonrock 54 plate 64k miles 4 owners S2000 for sale asking £10,250. Just wasn't in a financial position to buy... another that got away.

I've been looking at the market pretty much everyday and they are getting rarer and pricier for sure. If anyone is looking to sell a 04-55 Moonrock please PM me smile
I saw that car yesterday too. It was cheap, but there was a good few £thousand needing doing to sort the arches, at least one sill, the wheels and the paint.
I’m not sure I was encouraged to put a lot of credence in the fact that the lady owner for the last seven years had parked by touch and let it get into that state. I imagine the hard brake pipes would also have needed doing, clutch unknown etc. But I’m good at talking myself out of cars I’ve missed!
£6k for one just about to tip over to the key six figure mileage (which puts off lots of buyers) with rotten arches and sills, a rusty bonnet, scabby wheels and other 'cosmetic' defects... so no saying what other non-cosmetic defects it also has that the owner has skimped on or avoided/ignored altogether.

Bargain!