RE: NSX won't be a drinker

[PJ S]

trackdemon said:

They could just put the NSX back into production. I think its that good

I'd like to see a shorter overhang on the rear if they were going to do that.
I'm sure pedestrian legislation has put paid to that being even feasible, if Honda wanted to - although it could also be seen as if they've ran out of ideas.
So, whilst still a good motor, it's a non-starter for very obvious reasons.
If they can't top the HSC with anything, then the NSX moniker should be retired rather than reused on some monstrosity of an Acura design concept.
If they proceed with that Acura as a way to introduce the brand into Europe, they'll find it sells less than the NSX did.

Edited by PJ S on Thursday 26th April 23:54

[ferrisbueller]

PJ S said:

ferrisbueller said:

trackdemon said:

I took advantage of my position as propriator of an NSX 4 hours ago, and believe me on the roads I drove I don't need more power. Give me the same (I mean the quality, the tactile engine, the amazing gearchange) but just add a touch more delicacy to the control surfaces, update the systems and 'add lightness' as Chapman might say. You've got an amazing package with Cayman S+ performance, Mondeo useability, Honda running costs and Veyron rarity

Agreed.

They need to make a 50k NSX and, if they must, a 60-70k technological showpiece called something entirely different.

Hard to do given the Legend is pushing £40K.
Granted the NSX is a different beast, but the price would probably end up nearer £60-65K.

Don't see your point there mate. A Z4M costs the same as a 540M or 550i, different cars aimed at different people, sold in different volumes. The Z4M and Cayman are where Honda'd need to be shooting IMHO. The market for entry level supercars has changed a lot in the last few years, I don't think Honda should go chasing the F430 and leave a yawning gap between the S2000 and whatever it is they want to call this 500bhp thing. At the same time I think they already know they wouldn't be able to coax people out of their 997s.

It's a difficult question for them to answer. I think the diversity of their concepts refelcts that.

[PJ S]

ferrisbueller said:

PJ S said:

ferrisbueller said:

trackdemon said:

I took advantage of my position as propriator of an NSX 4 hours ago, and believe me on the roads I drove I don't need more power. Give me the same (I mean the quality, the tactile engine, the amazing gearchange) but just add a touch more delicacy to the control surfaces, update the systems and 'add lightness' as Chapman might say. You've got an amazing package with Cayman S+ performance, Mondeo useability, Honda running costs and Veyron rarity

Agreed.

They need to make a 50k NSX and, if they must, a 60-70k technological showpiece called something entirely different.

Hard to do given the Legend is pushing £40K.
Granted the NSX is a different beast, but the price would probably end up nearer £60-65K.

Don't see your point there mate. A Z4M costs the same as a 540M or 550i, different cars aimed at different people, sold in different volumes. The Z4M and Cayman are where Honda'd need to be shooting IMHO. The market for entry level supercars has changed a lot in the last few years, I don't think Honda should go chasing the F430 and leave a yawning gap between the S2000 and whatever it is they want to call this 500bhp thing. At the same time I think they already know they wouldn't be able to coax people out of their 997s.

It's a difficult question for them to answer. I think the diversity of their concepts refelcts that.

That's where you're going wrong - confusing Honda's way of doing things with that of BMW's.
Honda have never had crossover price-points or had two different sets of buyers for the same money. Their set-up has always been linear as far as price bands go.
Where Honda would do well, is to improve their engine range - there's probably no reason why a 350 bhp S2000 couldn't take on the Z4M and Cayman you refer to.
Similarly, with the right engine and chassis, that HSC could've taken on F430's for £20-25K less - but their F1 standing would need to change dramatically for that to translate into more sales than the NSX managed.
Without it, they will struggle - not as much as before, but by comparison as to what they could achieve.

Personally, I'd rather Honda were an engine supplier only for F1, and put their resources in WTCC and Rallying with properly designed for cars befitting of those categories.

Only once Honda sell in volume, cars over £60K, can they then really think about the Acura concept as an AM (Rapide) alternative.
You've only got to look at Lexus and wonder why Honda haven't done likewise. It's worked out well for Lexus, especially with the LFA concept.

If you ask me, Honda have lost direction on who they are and who they want to be. They used to be very clearly defined, but now it's not so clear. By removing the ITR, ATR, and demise of the NSX, Honda have become recognised by one remaining Type R model, and even that's not clearly defined when compared to the Japanese saloon version.

[ferrisbueller]

PJ S said:

ferrisbueller said:

PJ S said:

ferrisbueller said:

trackdemon said:

I took advantage of my position as propriator of an NSX 4 hours ago, and believe me on the roads I drove I don't need more power. Give me the same (I mean the quality, the tactile engine, the amazing gearchange) but just add a touch more delicacy to the control surfaces, update the systems and 'add lightness' as Chapman might say. You've got an amazing package with Cayman S+ performance, Mondeo useability, Honda running costs and Veyron rarity

Agreed.

They need to make a 50k NSX and, if they must, a 60-70k technological showpiece called something entirely different.

Hard to do given the Legend is pushing £40K.
Granted the NSX is a different beast, but the price would probably end up nearer £60-65K.

Don't see your point there mate. A Z4M costs the same as a 540M or 550i, different cars aimed at different people, sold in different volumes. The Z4M and Cayman are where Honda'd need to be shooting IMHO. The market for entry level supercars has changed a lot in the last few years, I don't think Honda should go chasing the F430 and leave a yawning gap between the S2000 and whatever it is they want to call this 500bhp thing. At the same time I think they already know they wouldn't be able to coax people out of their 997s.

It's a difficult question for them to answer. I think the diversity of their concepts refelcts that.

That's where you're going wrong - confusing Honda's way of doing things with that of BMW's.
Honda have never had crossover price-points or had two different sets of buyers for the same money. Their set-up has always been linear as far as price bands go.
Where Honda would do well, is to improve their engine range - there's probably no reason why a 350 bhp S2000 couldn't take on the Z4M and Cayman you refer to.
Similarly, with the right engine and chassis, that HSC could've taken on F430's for £20-25K less - but their F1 standing would need to change dramatically for that to translate into more sales than the NSX managed.
Without it, they will struggle - not as much as before, but by comparison as to what they could achieve.

Personally, I'd rather Honda were an engine supplier only for F1, and put their resources in WTCC and Rallying with properly designed for cars befitting of those categories.

Only once Honda sell in volume, cars over £60K, can they then really think about the Acura concept as an AM (Rapide) alternative.
You've only got to look at Lexus and wonder why Honda haven't done likewise. It's worked out well for Lexus, especially with the LFA concept.

If you ask me, Honda have lost direction on who they are and who they want to be. They used to be very clearly defined, but now it's not so clear. By removing the ITR, ATR, and demise of the NSX, Honda have become recognised by one remaining Type R model, and even that's not clearly defined when compared to the Japanese saloon version.

Yep. You've totally got me. I say that there should be a 10k gap between a Legend and an "NSX" - you say that's wrong. I point out that, as an example, BMW have the Z4 priced the same as a 550i and seemingly manage to do quite well , then you tell me I'm wrong to say Honda should do the same as BMW?

The World has changed a lot since the introduction of the NSX; 15 years on the junior supercar brigade has all moved on. However, the NSX would still be more than capable of tackling a Cayman on a level playing field with only minor adjustment.

To get 350bhp out of an S2000 would be difficult indeed. Honda make NA engines so forced induction is out. Given the NSX only put out 300 bhp from a 3.2 V6, that won't fit in the S2000 afaik, you'd need to get a tuned variant of the legend engine in there. Thus ruining the weight distribution and causing a few practical issues - like fitting the thing in there.

However, I do agree that they seem to have lost a little bit of direction.

[Type 49]

I havnt read the whole thread and i am only posting in the vain hope that someone from Honda who can make a difference is reading this.

The new car looks PIG UGLY if it were a girl it would rate around 7 pints.

On the plus side providing my wife can park it i will probably buy one (if somthing can be done about the look).

I enjoyed my nsx for 9 years but the magic ebbed away.