HANS type device without harnesses?

HANS type device without harnesses?

Author
Discussion

RB Will

Original Poster:

6,639 posts

200 months

Tuesday 27th October
quotequote all
Quick question Google failed to answer for me.
Can I use a HANS type device just with a normal seatbelt?
Getting old and more safety conscious but I track my daily driver so buckets, cage and harnesses are a no go.
Physics wise it looks like it would still work just concerned I’m missing something?

dh00065p

82 posts

124 months

Tuesday 27th October
quotequote all
As you really need to anchor both side of the HANS device down tightly on your shoulders for it to be effective it would not work with a standard lap/ diagonal seat belt.
In fact I thing it would be more dangerous than not using a HANS device at all.
It is possible to have a full harness fitted to your car but still retain the standard seatbelt for normal road driving and have at least better security when on track.
It does also depend on what your standard seat is like but I did this on my Megane without any problems.
Hope this helps
David

E-bmw

5,787 posts

112 months

Tuesday 27th October
quotequote all
^^^^ Wot 'e said, but you can get dense foam "neck braces" that fit under the helmet to support the neck, not sure how good they are but you occasionally see similar things in use by stunt people doing 'stuff.

mmm-five

8,374 posts

244 months

Tuesday 27th October
quotequote all
It's the shoulder belts of the harnesses that keep the HANS device on your shoulders (and thus stop your neck snapping forward via the link to the helmet).

If you don't have the shoulder belts of the harness, the device will do nothing as it will just move freely with your body/head.



One option would be the Simpson Hybrid version, which uses straps across the body to support the device...


Edited by mmm-five on Tuesday 27th October 10:33

andy97

4,032 posts

182 months

Tuesday 27th October
quotequote all
E-bmw said:
^^^^ Wot 'e said, but you can get dense foam "neck braces" that fit under the helmet to support the neck, not sure how good they are but you occasionally see similar things in use by stunt people doing 'stuff.
The foam “neck braces” are not a neck brace at all, they are a “helmet support” only and the fia standard often quoted is purely a fire resistance standard.

Mrs 97 conducts fatal accident inquiries as part of her job and did one for an accident in which a poor chap died in a stock car accident whilst wearing one, and the impact was assessed to be less than 40 mph. Many people in the sport erroneously thought that because it had an fia standard then it was a safety aid.
They are not worth wearing imho. Go with the proper belts and Hans or Simpson.

RB Will

Original Poster:

6,639 posts

200 months

Tuesday 27th October
quotequote all
Thanks for the input chaps. I did read on the Hans website that the neck collars are considered dangerous.

I’ll have a look at the Simpson one

Shaun_E

743 posts

220 months

Tuesday 27th October
quotequote all
The Simpson still needs to be anchored by harness straps.

HustleRussell

18,631 posts

120 months

Tuesday 27th October
quotequote all
Shaun_E said:
The Simpson still needs to be anchored by harness straps.
Yep. There is really no shortcut here. There is an inherent limit to the 3-point inertia reel in that it is not very tight to begin with and then it gives a little before locking.

The first upgrade if safety on track is the concern should be a seat and harness combination which restrains the driver better. Ideally a 6-point harness.

A HANS device of some description is a further upgrade to that, however the necessity of that in a production car with crumple zones, in a trackday scenario where you're only likely to hit tyre walls, is not as certain as in a race.

FNG

2,857 posts

184 months

Tuesday 27th October
quotequote all
HustleRussell said:
A HANS device of some description is a further upgrade to that, however the necessity of that in a production car with crumple zones, in a trackday scenario where you're only likely to hit tyre walls, is not as certain as in a race.
I agree with that, but with the proviso that this summer a colleague of mine crashed his clio at thruxton, first lap of the race, cold tyres - lost it going into Church and couldn’t get it back. Nosed into the tyres surrounding the marshals post at c.90mph.

He had a decent race seat and full cage with strut top triangulation, and a HANS device, and he got out of the car ok with winding and bruising.

How much of that was down to the full cage and HANS I don’t know. And yes he was in a race car and he was pushing too hard on cold tyres and neither of these things are applicable to trackdays.

But it did make me think, because losing the rear going into that corner is a real possibility on a track car (enthusiasm > talent or experience) and the impact was huge. I wouldn’t have liked to see the consequences without the safety kit on that car. Plenty of clios buzzing around with no cage, no bucket seat, no harness (and no airbag).

So I don’t disagree with the fact that it’s unlikely but equally there are going to be certain tracks and corners and situations where a hard frontal impact like that could happen, on a trackday, and to be honest if I could afford a HANS device and a compatible helmet and a full pro-installed cage, on the basis of the in-car footage of that crash I’d buy them!

FNG

2,857 posts

184 months

Tuesday 27th October
quotequote all
Not sure if it’s ok to link YouTube videos away from a particular thread but it’s here
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=77UfUY0lhSY

And if it gets removed, YouTube search “chase racing thruxton”


rallycross

11,035 posts

197 months

Tuesday 27th October
quotequote all
FNG said:
Not sure if it’s ok to link YouTube videos away from a particular thread but it’s here
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=77UfUY0lhSY

And if it gets removed, YouTube search “chase racing thruxton”
That’s a a horrible place to crash and lucky to be ok.

FNG

2,857 posts

184 months

Tuesday 27th October
quotequote all
Yeah agreed. He’s ok and now building a new car with his team mate for next season.

As we have said to him. A whole bloody field and he hits the only thing in it.

Very unlucky but shows it can happen. Made me upgrade my seat and belts before my first trackday back in action.

Xcore

736 posts

50 months

Tuesday 27th October
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Crikey that is unlucky!

Krikkit

19,920 posts

141 months

Tuesday 27th October
quotequote all
What a massive impact, incredible. I'd be buying the cage builder a pint after that! Glad he's OK.

Nickjd

99 posts

166 months

Tuesday 27th October
quotequote all
It's got a little off topic, but to the OP, just visualise how something tethered above your right shoulder and across your chest cannot in anyway restrain a device fitting across both shoulders and intended to be able to hold back the weight of your head in the event that a stop is big enough the fracture your spine. It is never going to in a million years.
As for not being able to afford it, it comes down to what your priorities are. Missing a couple of track days and putting the money to the safety equipment you crave is all it takes.

RB Will

Original Poster:

6,639 posts

200 months

Wednesday 28th October
quotequote all
I was more basically thinking of the device pivoting around the shoulder line so thinking the arms down the chest would stop it rotating down/ forwards, hadn’t considered the whole device just moving forward, doh!

It’s not a cost thing stopping me, as I said it’s for my daily driver/ family car, so cage, buckets, harness are a no go. The standard seats won’t work with a harness even if I could get an easily removable bar or something in there

HustleRussell

18,631 posts

120 months

Wednesday 28th October
quotequote all
Presumably you still have an airbag in there? That’ll help in combination with the factory inertia reel belt as designed

RB Will

Original Poster:

6,639 posts

200 months

Wednesday 28th October
quotequote all
Yeah its a 2020 model so all sorts of safety stuff

smiles1

516 posts

182 months

Wednesday 28th October
quotequote all
I'm just about to advertise a very good condition Hans device if anyone is after one?

Used about 10 times and looks brand new.

Pothole Racing

97 posts

83 months

Thursday 29th October
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andy97 said:
The foam “neck braces” are not a neck brace at all, they are a “helmet support” only and the fia standard often quoted is purely a fire resistance standard.

Mrs 97 conducts fatal accident inquiries as part of her job and did one for an accident in which a poor chap died in a stock car accident whilst wearing one, and the impact was assessed to be less than 40 mph. Many people in the sport erroneously thought that because it had an fia standard then it was a safety aid.
They are not worth wearing imho. Go with the proper belts and Hans or Simpson.
Richard Hammond did try wearing one as a makeshift HANS device when doing the Rallycross once! laugh
Its a good job he didn't have a big crash as the harness would very likely slip off the neck brace.