Track days in supercars?

Track days in supercars?

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Discussion

cdon

2,119 posts

144 months

Tuesday 12th January
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braddo said:
I reckon go and spectate at high end track days like RMA and goldtrack- big budget stuff goes and maybe you can chat to a few drivers.

A few PHers have tracked mclaren 12c and others, maybe have a look around those forum subsections.
A lot of supercar owners I’ve encountered on track days will use their supercar as a means to get to the track, then run a rental or purpose built race car.

Probably the way to do it. Can’t imagine a modern supercar being all that exciting on track outside of the straights.

GT3 Porsches are the exception...

Far Cough

1,670 posts

137 months

Tuesday 12th January
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Agreed on the GT3 front....

Slightly aside from the topic, who do people use to insure at the private Destination Nurburgring days at the Nordschleife ? The quotes I am getting for my 991.2 GT3 are ridiculous ?

Kent Border Kenny

2,219 posts

29 months

Tuesday 12th January
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cdon said:
A lot of supercar owners I’ve encountered on track days will use their supercar as a means to get to the track, then run a rental or purpose built race car.

Probably the way to do it. Can’t imagine a modern supercar being all that exciting on track outside of the straights.

GT3 Porsches are the exception...
What makes you think that? I’m taking my 650s to Silverstone when allowed, and assume it’ll be great fun.

How can a light, mid-engined 650bhp two seater not be fun on a track?

wraggy

112 posts

174 months

Tuesday 12th January
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I was at a track day at Brands Hatch quite a few years ago and shared a garage with a chap in a Gallardo. Luckily he let me passenger with him on a session and he didn’t hold back! Was absolutely awesome and I felt quite deflated getting back in my crappy little car...
He had a tyre guy there with his slicks and I did wonder how much it was all costing..well out of my reach anyway.
Kudos to anyone who can afford to track anything special. I tracked an Alfa 146 and a Clio 172, but can’t afford to track anything more exotic.

UTH

3,065 posts

147 months

Tuesday 12th January
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wraggy said:
I was at a track day at Brands Hatch quite a few years ago and shared a garage with a chap in a Gallardo. Luckily he let me passenger with him on a session and he didn’t hold back! Was absolutely awesome and I felt quite deflated getting back in my crappy little car...
He had a tyre guy there with his slicks and I did wonder how much it was all costing..well out of my reach anyway.
Kudos to anyone who can afford to track anything special. I tracked an Alfa 146 and a Clio 172, but can’t afford to track anything more exotic.
Didn’t he have any problems with the noise level? I thought Brands was quite low for drive by?

wraggy

112 posts

174 months

Tuesday 12th January
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UTH said:
Didn’t he have any problems with the noise level? I thought Brands was quite low for drive by?
Honestly don’t know...it was about 15 or so years ago. I guess not as he was there doing his thing. It actually didn’t sound excessively loud but went like a scolded cat.

UTH

3,065 posts

147 months

Tuesday 12th January
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wraggy said:
Honestly don’t know...it was about 15 or so years ago. I guess not as he was there doing his thing. It actually didn’t sound excessively loud but went like a scolded cat.
Ahhh right that long ago it was no doubt a bit more relaxed. When I first started tracking at Brands I don’t think I remember a drive by at all.

braddo

7,841 posts

157 months

Tuesday 12th January
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Far Cough said:
Agreed on the GT3 front....

Slightly aside from the topic, who do people use to insure at the private Destination Nurburgring days at the Nordschleife ? The quotes I am getting for my 991.2 GT3 are ridiculous ?
I think I've seen people recommend Moris?

Kent Border Kenny

2,219 posts

29 months

Tuesday 12th January
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UTH said:
Didn’t he have any problems with the noise level? I thought Brands was quite low for drive by?
I was slightly over the limit in my R8 at Brands. The guy testing suggested that I lifted slightly on the straight, to be sure, and I was fine.

Far Cough

1,670 posts

137 months

Tuesday 12th January
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Kent Border Kenny said:
What makes you think that? I’m taking my 650s to Silverstone when allowed, and assume it’ll be great fun.

How can a light, mid-engined 650bhp two seater not be fun on a track?
I think he means that a GT3 is probably one of the only supercars that will soak up trackdays more so than others.

You will have great fun in your Macca but do a few and you'll soon realise what he means !!

UTH

3,065 posts

147 months

Tuesday 12th January
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Kent Border Kenny said:
UTH said:
Didn’t he have any problems with the noise level? I thought Brands was quite low for drive by?
I was slightly over the limit in my R8 at Brands. The guy testing suggested that I lifted slightly on the straight, to be sure, and I was fine.
Hmmmm yeah my Corvette seems to be quite a lot louder than most cars. I think I’d really struggle.

Kent Border Kenny

2,219 posts

29 months

Tuesday 12th January
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Far Cough said:
I think he means that a GT3 is probably one of the only supercars that will soak up trackdays more so than others.

You will have great fun in your Macca but do a few and you'll soon realise what he means !!
I seem to remember some expensive recommendations about the lifespan of wheels on my 997 if tracked, but I suppose GT3s are a bit ore robust.

As to them being supercars though...

isaldiri

12,942 posts

137 months

Tuesday 12th January
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Kent Border Kenny said:
I seem to remember some expensive recommendations about the lifespan of wheels on my 997 if tracked, but I suppose GT3s are a bit ore robust.

As to them being supercars though...
you just need to keep an eye on the brakes on the mclaren. the 650 will eat through the ceramic brakes very quickly, especially on the rears. The car is (well as far as road cars are) bloody brilliant on track though although my caveat is that's only in the dry with traction control set to track mode.

in the wet the electronic systems are a little bit more messy and harder to predict imo.

Far Cough

1,670 posts

137 months

Wednesday 13th January
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Kent Border Kenny said:
I seem to remember some expensive recommendations about the lifespan of wheels on my 997 if tracked, but I suppose GT3s are a bit ore robust.

As to them being supercars though...
Haha , thats a whole new topic right there. They are definitely more robust in my experience of having tracked all sorts of cars from bargain basements, kit cars to the GT3. As an aside the Caterham was probably the cheapest to thrash on track so far.

Black_S3

2,447 posts

157 months

Wednesday 13th January
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The guys at apex nurburg have some great videos on YouTube about this. Everything from costing a lap in their mclaren 650? ring taxi, why they chose certain cars and avoid others to a realistic break down of the costs of a race season. Fantasy world for me but it’s great to watch.

mike746

97 posts

77 months

Thursday 14th January
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I have tracked most of my supercars. The GT3 was the best hands down, but expensive to track.
To give you an idea it cost me £12,000 in tyres, pads, discs a full service and a wheel alignment after for 5 days on track. this included 3 days at Spa and 2 at the Ring. Great fun but very expensive. I tracked my 458 last year and it was ok just heavy. Since then I've had built a e92 clubsport for my track days, and although it probably now owes me £45 - £50k its a lot of money but I can drive it to and from the ring or track and abuse it and drive home. This is now my go to track car. Rob at apex taxi loves his e92 m3. After seeing and being in a schirmer m3 it will blow your mind

mike746

97 posts

77 months

Thursday 14th January
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Well said Sir..


S1M VP said:
To the OP ...

As said in someone else’s post, for track driving and pushing hard, there is no substitute for a properly set-up race car ..

I run & race a 488 Challenge, which is simply epic to drive on track, 700bhp, on slicks, some downforce etc .. it’s just brilliant. BUT (and it’s a big but) the downside is the costs are eye watering.

It’s not road legal so needs to be transported, it hasn’t got door locks or handbrake etc and has a race refuelling system, so it really needs 2 technicians to run the car for the day. It eats through brake pads and tyres (rear pads often only last 1 day and if pushing hard and running some good stints, can go through 2 sets of slick tyres in a day). In all honesty, it is wasted on Trackdays given that most organisers only allow overtaking on the left (on the straights) and it’s almost impossible to get a full clean lap in and track days usually have a LOT of cars running. It also chews through control arms, bushes, uprights, hub assemblies etc, so running costs & maintenance costs are high, especially if hitting the curbs hard. The car shares many parts with its road going cousin, so I’d imagine running a 458/488 would be equally costly to run, if doing long days and lots of mileage.

Road Cars:

I did a trackday last year at Brands Hatch on the GP circuit in my 488 Spider.
I drove it fairly hard and hit the brakes hard, like I would the challenge car.
The car was brilliant in all respects, despite running the normal road spec setup and road tyres. I didn’t have anyone there to help, hadn’t had the car checked beforehand and I didn’t even mess too much with the tyre pressures.
It ran faultlessly, although I was black flagged for noise (108dB flyby) in the first of 4x 20 min sessions, so I had to miss the 2nd session to try to do ‘something’ (ended up running in wet mode and short-shifting in session 3 & 4, to avoid being kicked off circuit, although it somehow found itself back in “race mode” in the 2nd half of session 4). It wasn’t until I got home the next day, that I realised I’d cooked the brake callipers (they were nice & shiny yellow before the day, but ended up being burnt orange) and there were lots of black rubber marks all over the bonnet which took some getting off. Thankfully the car has full PPF. I absolutely loved driving the car, but this day proved that track driving is not kind on cars and noise limits can be a real pain.

I took my 720s to Snetterton for a days running.
The car was stupid fast compared to most other cars on track, especially down the straights, and it drove well, but occasionally during the day, the car seemed to limit the amount of power it’d give me mid-way through a session. Not sure why exactly, and there were no alarm messages, so a bit of a mystery ... Maybe it was just getting too hot. I’ve only done the one day in this car and pads & tyres were fine after, but I would have concerns about how tough the car is, so wouldn’t want to do many track days in it.

I took my Piloti to the SCD event at Donington and couldn’t say no, when offered a session on track. I have the carbon rims, but also have a set of the standard wheels which I bought, planning to take the car on a few trackdays.
The car had less than 200mls on it at the time as I’d only just picked it up, and I hadn’t swapped the wheels over, so I took it fairly easy.
The car was quick on the straights, but the setup felt surprisingly soft in the corners and I didn’t trust it - it felt like snap oversteer could be an issue if I pushed too hard. It would need a track biased geo setup, but I’ve now decided that I won’t be tracking that car, because I’m too precious over it. Not because of the cars capabilities, but more-so the risk of damage and adding lots of mileage will hammer the value of the car, which defeats the object.

I did a track day in a Cayman GT4 Clubsport last week at Snetterton, which is a race car and ran perfectly all day, but it again really needs a team to run it, but it is an awesome piece of kit. I suppose if you’re handy, have the right kit and a means of transporting it, the patience and inclination to do it yourself, you could run it for a day with a friends help, but it’s a lot of hassle. The balance was really good, so I can certtainly see why road-going Caymans are so popular for trackday cars.

The point of explaining all the above, is that if you’re too precious about whatever car you’re driving, or the running costs become a burden, you may end up not enjoying it as much as you would driving a different car.

For all these reasons, I’ve just bought a GT3RS specifically for Trackdays (although now I’ve driven it on the road, it’s brilliant on the road too).
My logic was to have a fairly quick car, that I can push hard and one that’s (hopefully) tough enough to take it without having to replace suspension parts after every 1-2 days of running. I wanted a car that I was not overly precious about adding mileage etc, a car which I can refuel myself and drive to the track and back, just to have some fun with my mates. I know it’ll never be as quick as a race car, but the purpose of this car is to have a fun trackday car, rather than setting the best possible lap time.
Only time will tell if I’ve made the right choice ... if I still feel too precious over it, I’ll change it for something a lot cheaper.

I can’t comment on the R8, as I’ve never driven one, but whichever car you end up going for ... I wouldn’t be so concerned over engine & gearbox mileage etc (providing it’s been properly maintained), just bear in mind that wishbones, joints, discs, pads, etc are all costly items in any Supercar or high end Sports Car (and that’s if you don’t bin it into a barrier, gravel etc and cause damage). Just because the car is £35k and has done most of its depreciating, replacement parts will be based on its new value and big bills may end up spoiling the overall experience, but that’s something only you can decide on.

Again, as someone else posted, also consider which track(s) you’re most likely to drive. For example, the challenge car is epic on longer tracks like Silverstone GP, but on shorter tracks like Brands Indy, it’s too fast and can’t be properly opened up.

Hope some of the above helps.

Good luck!

ecain63

10,456 posts

144 months

Thursday 14th January
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mike746 said:
I have tracked most of my supercars. The GT3 was the best hands down, but expensive to track.
To give you an idea it cost me £12,000 in tyres, pads, discs a full service and a wheel alignment after for 5 days on track. this included 3 days at Spa and 2 at the Ring. Great fun but very expensive. I tracked my 458 last year and it was ok just heavy. Since then I've had built a e92 clubsport for my track days, and although it probably now owes me £45 - £50k its a lot of money but I can drive it to and from the ring or track and abuse it and drive home. This is now my go to track car. Rob at apex taxi loves his e92 m3. After seeing and being in a schirmer m3 it will blow your mind
The GT3 is something I'd considered recently. However, having totalled up my costs for 2020 (15 track days, Inc a Ring trip) I'll happily stay with my Exige 410. £7500 all in, which includes fuel, track insurance, tyres, pads, service, track entry, Chunnel, hotels etc.

mike746

97 posts

77 months

Thursday 14th January
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Id say that's very cheap at £500 per day.
ecain63 said:
The GT3 is something I'd considered recently. However, having totalled up my costs for 2020 (15 track days, Inc a Ring trip) I'll happily stay with my Exige 410. £7500 all in, which includes fuel, track insurance, tyres, pads, service, track entry, Chunnel, hotels etc.

ecain63

10,456 posts

144 months

Thursday 14th January
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mike746 said:
Yep, I'd agree.