Track days in supercars?

Track days in supercars?

Author
Discussion

S1M VP

937 posts

204 months

Friday 15th January
quotequote all
Ash_ said:
Bloody hell dude!! You are truly living the dream with the cars you track and the ones in your stable (yes, I did a bit of stalking of your profile). Good on you for having the balls to track stuff like that. However, a question if I may, with the funding you have why don't you race, or also why don't you get something which is more track focussed for track days? For example, I'd have a KTM X-Bow as a dedicated track car or (if I could afford it) a BAC Mono, I know the KTM isn't as quick as any of the cars in your stable, but for worry free track days it's gotta be a good shout.
Thanks thumbup
The Challenge Car is a factory built 488 race car, which I've raced for the last 2 years in the Ferrari Challenge Series.
.... it's an unreal car, especially on slicks and on a dry day ..... the performance and the way it goes round corners is on a different level compared to any road car I have ever driven, although theres always faster cars and better drivers on any test day.
I consider myself very lucky to have experienced it the way I have, but covid has not been kind yo our business and it's put things into perspective; staff are more important than thrashing a car round a track.
It also takes quite a lot to set it up properly for each track and the weather conditions on the day and it can be a little temperamental meaning the Engineers must plug their laptops into it 15-20 times during a days running to check everything ... and we go through 2 sets of slicks and a set of pads in a day. I will run it for a few days here and there, but racing in the series this year is looking doubtful.
.. hence the GT3RS purchase to take to the track and have fun with my pals; knowing I can fill up myself and drive home (Although I may use the trailer given my driving enthusiasm Vs talent), but the big thing is that I don't need a team to run it.
I did consider a BAC, KTM and others, but having had more than my fair share of hairy moments, from spins to encounters with the barriers during race weekends and qualifying, I opted for something with a bit of padding/protection and a passenger seat, to take it a little easier and just enjoy the track time with friends, taking turns being driver/passenger.
Unfortunately the trackdays I had booked have now been cancelled, so I'll look forward to getting the car on track soon, probably to see you fly past in your KTM and wish I'd chosen differently ha ha !!

braddo

7,921 posts

158 months

Friday 15th January
quotequote all
mike746 said:
I have tracked most of my supercars. The GT3 was the best hands down, but expensive to track.
To give you an idea it cost me £12,000 in tyres, pads, discs a full service and a wheel alignment after for 5 days on track. this included 3 days at Spa and 2 at the Ring. Great fun but very expensive. I tracked my 458 last year and it was ok just heavy. Since then I've had built a e92 clubsport for my track days, and although it probably now owes me £45 - £50k its a lot of money but I can drive it to and from the ring or track and abuse it and drive home. This is now my go to track car. Rob at apex taxi loves his e92 m3. After seeing and being in a schirmer m3 it will blow your mind
For a bit of balance I think it's worth stating that £12k for 5 track days is not remotely a typical run rate.

I don't know what 991 brake costs are but for a 997 it's along the lines of:

£1000 for a set of Cup2 tyres
£750ish for a set of 4 brake discs (steels)
£750ish for a set of Pagid RS29 pads

That should easily do 5 days (brakes especially for days at n'ring). Spending more on Alcon discs gives even the most hardcore trackdayers 10-12 days with the RS29 pads.





GlynnsportRacing

278 posts

200 months

Friday 15th January
quotequote all
braddo said:
For a bit of balance I think it's worth stating that £12k for 5 track days is not remotely a typical run rate.

I don't know what 991 brake costs are but for a 997 it's along the lines of:

£1000 for a set of Cup2 tyres
£750ish for a set of 4 brake discs (steels)
£750ish for a set of Pagid RS29 pads

That should easily do 5 days (brakes especially for days at n'ring). Spending more on Alcon discs gives even the most hardcore trackdayers 10-12 days with the RS29 pads.

Do you mind saying where you're getting those prices as that seems very competitive. Thanks

mike746

99 posts

78 months

Saturday 16th January
quotequote all
Please let me know where you get your parts from. smile

braddo said:
mike746 said:
I have tracked most of my supercars. The GT3 was the best hands down, but expensive to track.
To give you an idea it cost me £12,000 in tyres, pads, discs a full service and a wheel alignment after for 5 days on track. this included 3 days at Spa and 2 at the Ring. Great fun but very expensive. I tracked my 458 last year and it was ok just heavy. Since then I've had built a e92 clubsport for my track days, and although it probably now owes me £45 - £50k its a lot of money but I can drive it to and from the ring or track and abuse it and drive home. This is now my go to track car. Rob at apex taxi loves his e92 m3. After seeing and being in a schirmer m3 it will blow your mind
For a bit of balance I think it's worth stating that £12k for 5 track days is not remotely a typical run rate.

I don't know what 991 brake costs are but for a 997 it's along the lines of:

£1000 for a set of Cup2 tyres
£750ish for a set of 4 brake discs (steels)
£750ish for a set of Pagid RS29 pads

That should easily do 5 days (brakes especially for days at n'ring). Spending more on Alcon discs gives even the most hardcore trackdayers 10-12 days with the RS29 pads.

isaldiri

13,158 posts

138 months

Saturday 16th January
quotequote all
braddo said:
For a bit of balance I think it's worth stating that £12k for 5 track days is not remotely a typical run rate.

I don't know what 991 brake costs are but for a 997 it's along the lines of:

£1000 for a set of Cup2 tyres
£750ish for a set of 4 brake discs (steels)
£750ish for a set of Pagid RS29 pads

That should easily do 5 days (brakes especially for days at n'ring). Spending more on Alcon discs gives even the most hardcore trackdayers 10-12 days with the RS29 pads.
£745 for 4 brake discs....? Er where are you getting those from? Alcons (ring only nevermind the hat) are more than that for a pair iirc....!

braddo

7,921 posts

158 months

Monday 18th January
quotequote all
For the brake discs - a German website - fvd.de - the website’s stock list is huge.

I think they were competitive for the brake pads too but I got the pads from uber9s.com


Ash_

5,250 posts

160 months

Tuesday 19th January
quotequote all
S1M VP said:
Ash_ said:
Bloody hell dude!! You are truly living the dream with the cars you track and the ones in your stable (yes, I did a bit of stalking of your profile). Good on you for having the balls to track stuff like that. However, a question if I may, with the funding you have why don't you race, or also why don't you get something which is more track focussed for track days? For example, I'd have a KTM X-Bow as a dedicated track car or (if I could afford it) a BAC Mono, I know the KTM isn't as quick as any of the cars in your stable, but for worry free track days it's gotta be a good shout.
Thanks thumbup
The Challenge Car is a factory built 488 race car, which I've raced for the last 2 years in the Ferrari Challenge Series.
.... it's an unreal car, especially on slicks and on a dry day ..... the performance and the way it goes round corners is on a different level compared to any road car I have ever driven, although theres always faster cars and better drivers on any test day.
I consider myself very lucky to have experienced it the way I have, but covid has not been kind yo our business and it's put things into perspective; staff are more important than thrashing a car round a track.
It also takes quite a lot to set it up properly for each track and the weather conditions on the day and it can be a little temperamental meaning the Engineers must plug their laptops into it 15-20 times during a days running to check everything ... and we go through 2 sets of slicks and a set of pads in a day. I will run it for a few days here and there, but racing in the series this year is looking doubtful.
.. hence the GT3RS purchase to take to the track and have fun with my pals; knowing I can fill up myself and drive home (Although I may use the trailer given my driving enthusiasm Vs talent), but the big thing is that I don't need a team to run it.
I did consider a BAC, KTM and others, but having had more than my fair share of hairy moments, from spins to encounters with the barriers during race weekends and qualifying, I opted for something with a bit of padding/protection and a passenger seat, to take it a little easier and just enjoy the track time with friends, taking turns being driver/passenger.
Unfortunately the trackdays I had booked have now been cancelled, so I'll look forward to getting the car on track soon, probably to see you fly past in your KTM and wish I'd chosen differently ha ha !!
Sounds awesome fun, I wish I had a KTM, that's more a pipe-dream of my ideal track day car, but they're well and truly out of my budget (but a considerable amount), I'm just happy doing TD's in my 2010 Cayman for now (which is also my daily).

LeroyLoser

520 posts

8 months

Sunday 20th June
quotequote all
ecain63 said:
mike746 said:
Yep, I'd agree.
Whats it like journeying there though? Or do you trailer it?

Thinking of changing the GTR (amg) for something lighter, though 400hp i’m not sure about vs the 700hp, thinking I might miss that surge up the straights..

rkanaga

476 posts

190 months

Sunday 20th June
quotequote all
Ash_ said:
S1M VP said:
To the OP ...

As said in someone else’s post, for track driving and pushing hard, there is no substitute for a properly set-up race car ..

I run & race a 488 Challenge, which is simply epic to drive on track, 700bhp, on slicks, some downforce etc .. it’s just brilliant. BUT (and it’s a big but) the downside is the costs are eye watering.

It’s not road legal so needs to be transported, it hasn’t got door locks or handbrake etc and has a race refuelling system, so it really needs 2 technicians to run the car for the day. It eats through brake pads and tyres (rear pads often only last 1 day and if pushing hard and running some good stints, can go through 2 sets of slick tyres in a day). In all honesty, it is wasted on Trackdays given that most organisers only allow overtaking on the left (on the straights) and it’s almost impossible to get a full clean lap in and track days usually have a LOT of cars running. It also chews through control arms, bushes, uprights, hub assemblies etc, so running costs & maintenance costs are high, especially if hitting the curbs hard. The car shares many parts with its road going cousin, so I’d imagine running a 458/488 would be equally costly to run, if doing long days and lots of mileage.

Road Cars:

I did a trackday last year at Brands Hatch on the GP circuit in my 488 Spider.
I drove it fairly hard and hit the brakes hard, like I would the challenge car.
The car was brilliant in all respects, despite running the normal road spec setup and road tyres. I didn’t have anyone there to help, hadn’t had the car checked beforehand and I didn’t even mess too much with the tyre pressures.
It ran faultlessly, although I was black flagged for noise (108dB flyby) in the first of 4x 20 min sessions, so I had to miss the 2nd session to try to do ‘something’ (ended up running in wet mode and short-shifting in session 3 & 4, to avoid being kicked off circuit, although it somehow found itself back in “race mode” in the 2nd half of session 4). It wasn’t until I got home the next day, that I realised I’d cooked the brake callipers (they were nice & shiny yellow before the day, but ended up being burnt orange) and there were lots of black rubber marks all over the bonnet which took some getting off. Thankfully the car has full PPF. I absolutely loved driving the car, but this day proved that track driving is not kind on cars and noise limits can be a real pain.

I took my 720s to Snetterton for a days running.
The car was stupid fast compared to most other cars on track, especially down the straights, and it drove well, but occasionally during the day, the car seemed to limit the amount of power it’d give me mid-way through a session. Not sure why exactly, and there were no alarm messages, so a bit of a mystery ... Maybe it was just getting too hot. I’ve only done the one day in this car and pads & tyres were fine after, but I would have concerns about how tough the car is, so wouldn’t want to do many track days in it.

I took my Piloti to the SCD event at Donington and couldn’t say no, when offered a session on track. I have the carbon rims, but also have a set of the standard wheels which I bought, planning to take the car on a few trackdays.
The car had less than 200mls on it at the time as I’d only just picked it up, and I hadn’t swapped the wheels over, so I took it fairly easy.
The car was quick on the straights, but the setup felt surprisingly soft in the corners and I didn’t trust it - it felt like snap oversteer could be an issue if I pushed too hard. It would need a track biased geo setup, but I’ve now decided that I won’t be tracking that car, because I’m too precious over it. Not because of the cars capabilities, but more-so the risk of damage and adding lots of mileage will hammer the value of the car, which defeats the object.

I did a track day in a Cayman GT4 Clubsport last week at Snetterton, which is a race car and ran perfectly all day, but it again really needs a team to run it, but it is an awesome piece of kit. I suppose if you’re handy, have the right kit and a means of transporting it, the patience and inclination to do it yourself, you could run it for a day with a friends help, but it’s a lot of hassle. The balance was really good, so I can certtainly see why road-going Caymans are so popular for trackday cars.

The point of explaining all the above, is that if you’re too precious about whatever car you’re driving, or the running costs become a burden, you may end up not enjoying it as much as you would driving a different car.

For all these reasons, I’ve just bought a GT3RS specifically for Trackdays (although now I’ve driven it on the road, it’s brilliant on the road too).
My logic was to have a fairly quick car, that I can push hard and one that’s (hopefully) tough enough to take it without having to replace suspension parts after every 1-2 days of running. I wanted a car that I was not overly precious about adding mileage etc, a car which I can refuel myself and drive to the track and back, just to have some fun with my mates. I know it’ll never be as quick as a race car, but the purpose of this car is to have a fun trackday car, rather than setting the best possible lap time.
Only time will tell if I’ve made the right choice ... if I still feel too precious over it, I’ll change it for something a lot cheaper.

I can’t comment on the R8, as I’ve never driven one, but whichever car you end up going for ... I wouldn’t be so concerned over engine & gearbox mileage etc (providing it’s been properly maintained), just bear in mind that wishbones, joints, discs, pads, etc are all costly items in any Supercar or high end Sports Car (and that’s if you don’t bin it into a barrier, gravel etc and cause damage). Just because the car is £35k and has done most of its depreciating, replacement parts will be based on its new value and big bills may end up spoiling the overall experience, but that’s something only you can decide on.

Again, as someone else posted, also consider which track(s) you’re most likely to drive. For example, the challenge car is epic on longer tracks like Silverstone GP, but on shorter tracks like Brands Indy, it’s too fast and can’t be properly opened up.

Hope some of the above helps.

Good luck!
Bloody hell dude!! You are truly living the dream with the cars you track and the ones in your stable (yes, I did a bit of stalking of your profile). Good on you for having the balls to track stuff like that. However, a question if I may, with the funding you have why don't you race, or also why don't you get something which is more track focussed for track days? For example, I'd have a KTM X-Bow as a dedicated track car or (if I could afford it) a BAC Mono, I know the KTM isn't as quick as any of the cars in your stable, but for worry free track days it's gotta be a good shout.
If I can add my tuppence worth. I''m pretty new to the track scene, having run Caterhams etc on the road only, but have just started in a BAC Mono. I also ran at Goodwood recently in both the Mono and a relatively modest sportscar (gen 1 NSX.) I would definitely echo what has been said already, however sporty you think your road car is, there's no substitute for a lightweight track focussed car. The gen 1 NSX is by no means heavy, but the Mono runs rings around it and feels much more suited for the track. The difference in the corners is staggering. Both are huge fun, but I would have thought that using a (heavier) modern road going supercar on a track would be very expensive on consumables and more than a bit terrifying at circuits without large runoff areas. You will be arriving at corners at speeds which will eat your brakes in no time unless you have ceramics I would imagine. The Honda coped well, but I'm sure if I had driven it longer/ for harder it would not have liked it.

If you have the funds then a GT3 or challenge car seems the way to go if you want a supercar, but it sounds a pretty pricy option.

(If I didn't have the Mono, I would be very tempted to keep the sports/ supercar for the road and get a road legal Atom, X-Bow or something as I can't be bothered with trailers etc. Having seen how vulnerable Caterham drivers looked on track there's no way I'm going that route with my level of skill though!)

The main thing is that, in my experience, once you have started you will just want to do as many trackdays as possible, it's addictive, and so you need to be comfortable with your choice.

mike746

99 posts

78 months

Monday 21st June
quotequote all
LeroyLoser said:
Whats it like journeying there though? Or do you trailer it?

Thinking of changing the GTR (amg) for something lighter, though 400hp i’m not sure about vs the 700hp, thinking I might miss that surge up the straights..
We’ll I’m back in a 991 gt3. The bmw is great but the gt3 for me is better. Had it 7 weeks and already don e 4500 miles init 😂

1781cc

409 posts

64 months

Monday 21st June
quotequote all
In my experience this is usually what happens when you see a supercar on track… hugely capable car holding people up in the corners, not committing properly and just booting it on the straight, it’s a shame because they are built to perform.

https://youtu.be/A0fNyjrFtp4

On the flip, I see a lot of super fast R8s on track with committed drivers, as well as porsches. Mclaren’s are usually the slowest, which is saying more about the driver than the car. That being said, if I bin my car I’ll be gutted but I’ll get over it, binning 75k+ worth of mclaren might make me feel different. I’d love to have that problem!

UTH

3,228 posts

148 months

Wednesday 23rd June
quotequote all
1781cc said:
In my experience this is usually what happens when you see a supercar on track… hugely capable car holding people up in the corners, not committing properly and just booting it on the straight, it’s a shame because they are built to perform.

https://youtu.be/A0fNyjrFtp4

On the flip, I see a lot of super fast R8s on track with committed drivers, as well as porsches. Mclaren’s are usually the slowest, which is saying more about the driver than the car. That being said, if I bin my car I’ll be gutted but I’ll get over it, binning 75k+ worth of mclaren might make me feel different. I’d love to have that problem!
I must admit, this is starting to ring true for me. I own a £70k C7 Corvette Z06 - on paper this should be, in the right hands, one of the quickest cars at any track day. But, I find myself relatively slow compared with how fast I'm sure I could be, and a lot is to do with not wanting to bin it into a wall! I'll caveat that by saying that firstly the only track I've taken it on is Goodwood, which is not forgiving, and that even at Goodwood, I trigger the noise limits on driveby at full chat.....so I'm actually having to go slower than I'd like to/am able to, to make sure I don't get black flagged.
On the flip side, I also co-own an Ariel Atom that I've taken to Goodwood, and in that thing I am FLYING at full whack, fast than pretty much anything out there, and having an absolute blast. I guess that's party due to the difference between worrying about a car I paid £70k for, and a car I shared 3 ways £10k each.

So, as much as I hate to admit it, given a choice, I'd take the Atom all day long over the Corvette, even though the Corvette should be a bit of an epic track monster.