Time between 1st and 2nd track car
Discussion
Z4MCSL said:
thanks for the replies
For context if I go from 182 to 197 ill be getting a 197 with the 2.0T from the R26 installed so that goes form 182hp to at least 230/240hp but easily beyond 300hp with injectors, intercooler map etc.
The 197 is a lot heavier, 1240 stock vs 1090 for the 182, my 182 is currently very stripped down and less than a ton so good power to weight, certainly better than a stock 197. But with the engine conversion in the 197 that negates that point.
I also have heard a few things about the significant increase in rigidity of the roof in a 197 such that I have been told the decision whether or not to get a cage is a more difficult one with a 197 whereas with a 182 you really should get one if you are going to start tracking it a lot - I don't know if that is accurate but it was Mark Fish Motorsport who mentioned this to me and from what I have read they seem to know their stuff
Also I'm very childish and I like the idea of having a 270hp+ clio on the motorway.
As an R26 owner, I would caution anyone thinking that the engines can [b]easily[/b[] be pushed past 300bhp. Most of the people I know consider 280bhp to be the limit before you need forged internals. But, you might be lucky.For context if I go from 182 to 197 ill be getting a 197 with the 2.0T from the R26 installed so that goes form 182hp to at least 230/240hp but easily beyond 300hp with injectors, intercooler map etc.
The 197 is a lot heavier, 1240 stock vs 1090 for the 182, my 182 is currently very stripped down and less than a ton so good power to weight, certainly better than a stock 197. But with the engine conversion in the 197 that negates that point.
I also have heard a few things about the significant increase in rigidity of the roof in a 197 such that I have been told the decision whether or not to get a cage is a more difficult one with a 197 whereas with a 182 you really should get one if you are going to start tracking it a lot - I don't know if that is accurate but it was Mark Fish Motorsport who mentioned this to me and from what I have read they seem to know their stuff
Also I'm very childish and I like the idea of having a 270hp+ clio on the motorway.
The 'Meglio' conversion is popular, but not cheap and being honest, the R26 itself is a very good car on track.
Mine was bought for the train station car park and I have used it once on track, when my normal 400bhp AWD track car was being worked on. It was easily the match of may higher powered cars.
My wife had a 182cup pack back in 2005, and i stole that for track duty in the winter, so I speak with some experience.
I know nothing of your driving skills, so I am referring to what would help me enjoy track days more.
After about 40 track days in my TVR, I think that tuition at the tracks could be the answer - I would gain far more from learning how to prepare for the corner better, come out of the corners in better shape and balance, and hit the next straight faster.
I have already upgraded my 230 bhp car to 390 bhp, improved the brakes and suspension, but much to my surprise it hasn't made me a better driver.
Being faster on the straights hasn't helped my enjoyment either, and I am now convinced that stellar performance in corners is what I am missing out on.
I am booked at Cadwell Park in September, and despite having driven well over 1.5 million miles in my 50 year driving career (without ever having driven for a living),I will be getting some lessons on that track day. Cadwell has 13 corners, so is well suited to practising cornering.
After about 40 track days in my TVR, I think that tuition at the tracks could be the answer - I would gain far more from learning how to prepare for the corner better, come out of the corners in better shape and balance, and hit the next straight faster.
I have already upgraded my 230 bhp car to 390 bhp, improved the brakes and suspension, but much to my surprise it hasn't made me a better driver.
Being faster on the straights hasn't helped my enjoyment either, and I am now convinced that stellar performance in corners is what I am missing out on.
I am booked at Cadwell Park in September, and despite having driven well over 1.5 million miles in my 50 year driving career (without ever having driven for a living),I will be getting some lessons on that track day. Cadwell has 13 corners, so is well suited to practising cornering.
If you're thinking about a jump to a 197/200 then track obsession do a package where you get use of a prepped 197 for a day. It's fairly expensive at £700 but includes all consumables plus a full day on track. Might be worth having a go in one of theirs to help make your mind up?
https://trackobsession.co.uk/track-car-hire/
There may be other providers out there who do similar stuff.
https://trackobsession.co.uk/track-car-hire/
There may be other providers out there who do similar stuff.
PS. After half a dozen track days in my Clio I'm having similar thoughts about getting something with a chunk more power, there have been occasions when I've been very conscious of being a mobile chicane. However, I enjoy driving the Clio day to day and it's really rewarding on the track, especially in the wet, so I don't really want to get rid of it (or fit bucket seats and strip the interior). I'm not sure a turbo conversion is a great idea for the 18 year old 110,000 mile engine...
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Yes my seats are on the lowest setting on Supreme Motorsport mounts https://www.supreme-motorsport.co.uk/products/supr...
bigothunter said:
Consider going RWD. Once mastered, RWD is more rewarding so returning to FWD might be difficult.
100% this. So much more fun to be had with RWD.OP, why are you called Z4MCSL? A Z4M with CSL wheels or anything else? Either way I’d be getting that on track. PPF if you are worried about stone chips and drive within your limits.
Cambs_Stuart said:
What was the verdict OP? I've just spent the entire day being overtaken at cadwell park, and my niggle about getting something with more power is becoming more urgent.
The Clio should be a pretty good weapon for Cadwell. If too much traffic is a problem, have a look at the track days you’re booking and find ones which have fewer cars on track at a time. HustleRussell said:
The Clio should be a pretty good weapon for Cadwell. If too much traffic is a problem, have a look at the track days you’re booking and find ones which have fewer cars on track at a time.
There were a lot of BMW M-series machines, I counted 12 in the car park at one point, plus various 320/420 (and at least one R500) caterams. It was also a very busy day, with a lot of red flags due to cones being hit, and more than the usual amount of people going off and having engine failures, so lots of people coming on and off circuit at the same time. it was a shame, prior to this the last few track days I've been on have had a good smattering of MX5s, Ford ST150/ST170, Various Clios etc which are usually good fun to be on track at the same time as. This track day had a lot more fast stuff.
Or it may simply be that a complex track like Cadwell shows my lack of ability more than my local circuits of Snetterton, Bedford or Brands.
Cambs_Stuart said:
There were a lot of BMW M-series machines, I counted 12 in the car park at one point, plus various 320/420 (and at least one R500) caterams. It was also a very busy day, with a lot of red flags due to cones being hit, and more than the usual amount of people going off and having engine failures, so lots of people coming on and off circuit at the same time.
it was a shame, prior to this the last few track days I've been on have had a good smattering of MX5s, Ford ST150/ST170, Various Clios etc which are usually good fun to be on track at the same time as. This track day had a lot more fast stuff.
Or it may simply be that a complex track like Cadwell shows my lack of ability more than my local circuits of Snetterton, Bedford or Brands.
I'm a regular trackday driver (5th event this year is next Thursday) and the trend is definitely towards ever more powerful cars. In a low power/weight car, you get blasted past down almost every straight. But it's good practice pulling them back under braking and through bends it was a shame, prior to this the last few track days I've been on have had a good smattering of MX5s, Ford ST150/ST170, Various Clios etc which are usually good fun to be on track at the same time as. This track day had a lot more fast stuff.
Or it may simply be that a complex track like Cadwell shows my lack of ability more than my local circuits of Snetterton, Bedford or Brands.
bigothunter said:
I'm a regular trackday driver (5th event this year is next Thursday) and the trend is definitely towards ever more powerful cars. In a low power/weight car, you get blasted past down almost every straight. But it's good practice pulling them back under braking and through bends
A few people I spoke to said they'd upgraded with the money they saved in lockdown. Makes me regret blowing it all on a new kitchen. You will never be the fastest car out there, because there will always be someone in a race spec Radical or whatever.
My most surprising incidents being overtaken were twofold:
1. Doing 135 down the Bentley straight at Snetterton only to be overtaken by a teenage girl doing about 175.
2. Being overtaken by a standard Hillman Imp at Cadwell Park. OK, I let him past because I was amazed to see him on my tail, but his lines and braking were awesome - I learnt a lot following him for a few laps.
And the teenage girl? Jamie Chadwick, shaking down her GT4 Aston before a race that weekend. Now, she was seriously fast.....and only 16 at the time.
My most surprising incidents being overtaken were twofold:
1. Doing 135 down the Bentley straight at Snetterton only to be overtaken by a teenage girl doing about 175.
2. Being overtaken by a standard Hillman Imp at Cadwell Park. OK, I let him past because I was amazed to see him on my tail, but his lines and braking were awesome - I learnt a lot following him for a few laps.
And the teenage girl? Jamie Chadwick, shaking down her GT4 Aston before a race that weekend. Now, she was seriously fast.....and only 16 at the time.
Morning all,
So the conclusion I've come to for now is to stick with the 182.
I was meant to do my first day at Bedford yesterday but sadly had to cancel. However I did a few bits on the car in preparation and realised I still love the little blighter.
I still have cage and harnesses to go in and need to fit a new steering wheel and do the door cards
After that I'm thinking I might play around with the engine but probably not a turbo and then I'm probably done with it. Will book as many track days as possible and just focus on getting better at driving the thing!
I'm thinking of possibly swapping my daily for a mk3 megane (cup s or trophy) and then I may take that on a track day to see how it feels.
I've also got a drift taster day coming up next Sunday so I'll probably Completely change my mind after that and decide to buy an s14 or repurpose my z4
The other conclusion I've come to is that there just is no solution to this problem. I will never stop thinking about other cars, I will inevitably spend about an hour a day surfing ebay, pistonheads and autotrader looking at used cars and simultaneously speccing up new Yaris GRs and Cayman GTSs on the configurators but then keep deciding I really don't need a new car.
Such is life
So the conclusion I've come to for now is to stick with the 182.
I was meant to do my first day at Bedford yesterday but sadly had to cancel. However I did a few bits on the car in preparation and realised I still love the little blighter.
I still have cage and harnesses to go in and need to fit a new steering wheel and do the door cards
After that I'm thinking I might play around with the engine but probably not a turbo and then I'm probably done with it. Will book as many track days as possible and just focus on getting better at driving the thing!
I'm thinking of possibly swapping my daily for a mk3 megane (cup s or trophy) and then I may take that on a track day to see how it feels.
I've also got a drift taster day coming up next Sunday so I'll probably Completely change my mind after that and decide to buy an s14 or repurpose my z4
The other conclusion I've come to is that there just is no solution to this problem. I will never stop thinking about other cars, I will inevitably spend about an hour a day surfing ebay, pistonheads and autotrader looking at used cars and simultaneously speccing up new Yaris GRs and Cayman GTSs on the configurators but then keep deciding I really don't need a new car.
Such is life
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