the ring, insurance questions

the ring, insurance questions

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Discussion

anonymous-user

14 months

Monday 25th February 2019
quotequote all
mmm-five said:
MikeDrop said:
Sorry for mentioning the "B" word in this thread, but with a Brexit deal or no deal looming, there's been talks of needing a Green Card for European driving.

How will the Ring handle these Green Card's in the event of some Armco loving?

Currently, if you prang some of their gold plated, virgin pube-encrusted Armco, they ask for a Green Card and if you haven't got one, it's cough up time. If we needed to get a Green Card in the even of Brexit, would they take this as "you're covered" and let you on your merry way? Or, will they now be a little more vigilant knowing that most, if not all, British underwriters won't, or ever will, cover driving on the Ring in the same way as their continental counterparts?

Even if they did let you on your way after showing them a Green Card, would your insurers not tell them to Foxtrot Oscar and the Ring would end up chasing you for the cash at a later date?

Be interesting to hear any informed thoughts?

Cheeeeeeeeeeers
AFAIK, Green Card has never mattered on the Ring.

You pay for armco/closure/repair/recovery by card on the spot - I've never seen them let a Brit 'off' with it by showing proof of fully-comp insurance!
This, you pay on card then claim it from your insurers iirc.

MikeDrop

1,581 posts

129 months

Monday 25th February 2019
quotequote all
CP12 said:
mmm-five said:
MikeDrop said:
Sorry for mentioning the "B" word in this thread, but with a Brexit deal or no deal looming, there's been talks of needing a Green Card for European driving.

How will the Ring handle these Green Card's in the event of some Armco loving?

Currently, if you prang some of their gold plated, virgin pube-encrusted Armco, they ask for a Green Card and if you haven't got one, it's cough up time. If we needed to get a Green Card in the even of Brexit, would they take this as "you're covered" and let you on your merry way? Or, will they now be a little more vigilant knowing that most, if not all, British underwriters won't, or ever will, cover driving on the Ring in the same way as their continental counterparts?

Even if they did let you on your way after showing them a Green Card, would your insurers not tell them to Foxtrot Oscar and the Ring would end up chasing you for the cash at a later date?

Be interesting to hear any informed thoughts?

Cheeeeeeeeeeers
AFAIK, Green Card has never mattered on the Ring.

You pay for armco/closure/repair/recovery by card on the spot - I've never seen them let a Brit 'off' with it by showing proof of fully-comp insurance!
This, you pay on card then claim it from your insurers iirc.
Thanks guys. Only suggested the "let off" option as when a mate stacked his Accord in September last year, they asked for a Green car or he would have to cough up there and then. So I assumed there was the option of showing your Green Card and then buggering off.

Agree on the point of being able to buy EU insurance. Didn't ADAC used to offer the purchase of a Green Card, German or not?

mmm-five

8,374 posts

244 months

Monday 25th February 2019
quotequote all
What do you think a 'Green Card' is?

It's not a 'get out of jail free' card - it was simply a way to confirm that your insurer provided you with the minimum legally required road insurance when driving in the EU/Europe.

The Green Card was mostly phased out as the insurers agreed (as part of standard EU insurance regs), that 3rd party cover would be EU-wide as standard - so there was no need to carry or apply for a Green Card. (and that's where the argument about UK insurers not covering public days at the Ring in their 3rd party cover - when the EU says they should).

If you carry a copy of your insurance policy/certificate (or have access to it on your phone), then you've got everything you need!

Maybe the repair bill was so large/complicated that they needed time to work it out, and so wanted proof of identity so they could invoice your mate at a later date?

OverSteery

3,009 posts

191 months

Monday 25th February 2019
quotequote all
My understanding, of which I am reasonably confident, but could be wrong.

If you are insured in Europe or Germany in this case, (green card or not), your insurance will have to pay out any claims against you. Its a public road and they insure you.

However, it's very likely you are in breach of contract with your insurers by driving the Ring, so they can legally recover from you, any costs they incurred. That could include taking your house sufficient sums are owed.

After Brexit, I expect it will be the same. If you have got insurance in your target country, it will include all public roads, but you may still be in breach of contract.

Far Cough

1,425 posts

128 months

Monday 25th February 2019
quotequote all
OverSteery said:
My understanding, of which I am reasonably confident, but could be wrong.

If you are insured in Europe or Germany in this case, (green card or not), your insurance will have to pay out any claims against you. Its a public road and they insure you.

However, it's very likely you are in breach of contract with your insurers by driving the Ring, so they can legally recover from you, any costs they incurred. That could include taking your house sufficient sums are owed.

After Brexit, I expect it will be the same. If you have got insurance in your target country, it will include all public roads, but you may still be in breach of contract.
Pretty much in a nutshell yes. Obviously if you get to that situation you will also be in the world of cancelled insurance and having to declare it if you want to continue to drive etc etc. Grief in other words.

MikeDrop

1,581 posts

129 months

Monday 25th February 2019
quotequote all
mmm-five said:
What do you think a 'Green Card' is?

It's not a 'get out of jail free' card - it was simply a way to confirm that your insurer provided you with the minimum legally required road insurance when driving in the EU/Europe.

The Green Card was mostly phased out as the insurers agreed (as part of standard EU insurance regs), that 3rd party cover would be EU-wide as standard - so there was no need to carry or apply for a Green Card. (and that's where the argument about UK insurers not covering public days at the Ring in their 3rd party cover - when the EU says they should).

If you carry a copy of your insurance policy/certificate (or have access to it on your phone), then you've got everything you need!

Maybe the repair bill was so large/complicated that they needed time to work it out, and so wanted proof of identity so they could invoice your mate at a later date?
Not at all. More a way of showing "I'm insured, so don't hold my car as ransom until I can pay for your Armco" type thing.

On the occasion where I saw it first hand, they would not release the car until a) a payment was made or b) a valid insurance certificate was shown. No valid insurance certificate (coz Ring not covered) so payment had to be made.

I'm not arguing that people without valid insurance should get away without paying for damages (as exuberant as they may be), but more that when we exit the EU, deal or no deal Noel, how a Green Card would be viewed by zee Germans.

I guess a previous poster answered it in that, when leaving the EU, things will get worse before they get better as we may not be covered by the mandatory EU 3rd party cover.

TheRainMaker

4,530 posts

202 months

Monday 25th February 2019
quotequote all
MikeDrop said:
I'm not arguing that people without valid insurance should get away without paying for damages (as exuberant as they may be), but more that when we exit the EU, deal or no deal Noel, how a Green Card would be viewed by zee Germans.
Same as before I would guess.

Back in 2004/5 I had a green card to take part in a road rally, it didn't cost anything back then, and I would hope it won't cost anything in the future.


Edited by TheRainMaker on Monday 25th February 14:31

TheRainMaker

4,530 posts

202 months

Monday 25th February 2019
quotequote all
Holy cow, just went through my paperwork and found it rofl

It says nothing more than your normal insurance certificate would say.

[url]

|https://thumbsnap.com/fouCSkOS[/url][url]



Edited by TheRainMaker on Monday 25th February 14:29

C70R

7,140 posts

64 months

Wednesday 29th May 2019
quotequote all
So, I'm taking a trip later this year, and ruminating on whether insurance is worth it for a few tame TF laps.

Is there a current list of insurers, rather than the ones littered throughout this thread?

And, if so, do any of them offer the options of TF sessions and armco cover?

MikeDrop

1,581 posts

129 months

Thursday 30th May 2019
quotequote all
C70R said:
So, I'm taking a trip later this year, and ruminating on whether insurance is worth it for a few tame TF laps.

Is there a current list of insurers, rather than the ones littered throughout this thread?

And, if so, do any of them offer the options of TF sessions and armco cover?
I searched and searched and couldn't fine anyone who would cover TF days; only track days.

You can get your own car covered, but nothing that will cover third party or armco.

Dave Hedgehog

12,945 posts

164 months

Thursday 30th May 2019
quotequote all
y2blade said:
ALY77 said:
To save you four or five hours of your life the crux of the matter is this;

Touristfahren - You aren't insured & you can't get insurance.
If you crash, the owners of the ring and anyone you injure can pursue your insurers who will have to pay under european law. But since they say they wont cover you there (whether its clear or not on your policy documents) then they will in turn come after you for the money they pay out.

If its a barrier belonging the track you bend then you're fixing the barrier and your car.
If you drop fluid and eight German bank officials on 100k euros a year, with families to support slide on your oil say, in to barriers from their R1's and all end up cripples, then you are paying for eight bikes, a barrier, eight medivac airlifts and the 24 hour care for eight of them for the rest of their lives.
eek
If i recall the owner of the car that dumped coolant on the track that caused the 10 (?) car crash a couple of years ago ended up with a bill of about a million euro's


C70R

7,140 posts

64 months

Thursday 30th May 2019
quotequote all
MikeDrop said:
C70R said:
So, I'm taking a trip later this year, and ruminating on whether insurance is worth it for a few tame TF laps.

Is there a current list of insurers, rather than the ones littered throughout this thread?

And, if so, do any of them offer the options of TF sessions and armco cover?
I searched and searched and couldn't fine anyone who would cover TF days; only track days.

You can get your own car covered, but nothing that will cover third party or armco.
www.Insuremytrackday.com seem to offer armco cover (to £4k) and cover on TF days.

Am I missing something?

Munter

30,190 posts

201 months

Thursday 30th May 2019
quotequote all
C70R said:
www. Insuremytrackday.com seem to offer armco cover (to £4k) and cover on TF days.

Am I missing something?
Usually you are missing 3rd party cover.

Get a copy of all the small print for what they are offering for TF days. I'll bet £1 to charity it doesn't cover over 3rd party costs etc which your road insurance should according to germany (but doesn't really because england) cover.

C70R

7,140 posts

64 months

Thursday 30th May 2019
quotequote all
Munter said:
Usually you are missing 3rd party cover.

Get a copy of all the small print for what they are offering for TF days. I'll bet £1 to charity it doesn't cover over 3rd party costs etc which your road insurance should according to germany (but doesn't really because england) cover.
It doesn't, but that isn't what I wanted.

GC8

19,426 posts

150 months

Friday 31st May 2019
quotequote all
Dave Hedgehog said:
If i recall the owner of the car that dumped coolant on the track that caused the 10 (?) car crash a couple of years ago ended up with a bill of about a million euro's
A good argument right there for replacing your coolant with water for a trip to the ‘Ring.

C70R

7,140 posts

64 months

Friday 7th June 2019
quotequote all
Does anyone have any experience of www.Insuremytrackday.com at the ring?

I suspect it's unlikely we'll get anyone having claimed - but has anyone used?

Puntoboy

70 posts

177 months

Tuesday 11th June 2019
quotequote all
Black_S3 said:
The old terms surrounding one way public toll roads or specifically naming the nordschleife have completely dropped off my renewal this year & I've read their entire T&Cs. Insurer is Marketstudy. What's peoples thoughts?

I was in the same position. Checked every document I had from my insurer (Aviva) and couldn't find a single reference to the Nordschleife. I contact them directly and asked the question, they came back to be a few hours later (after clarifying internally) that as long as the Nordschleife is not closed for a track day, then I would be fully covered. I specifically asked them about Tourist Days and they confirmed I would be covered as well.

thenortherner

1,345 posts

123 months

Wednesday 12th June 2019
quotequote all
MikeDrop said:
I searched and searched and couldn't fine anyone who would cover TF days; only track days.

You can get your own car covered, but nothing that will cover third party or armco.
I'm insured through Moris - they do specific cover for TF days.

My car's covered for £12.5K, there's £1K excess and it cost £140. You get an early booking discount and they take note of previous track day experience when building the quote online so I'm guessing they take this into account.

mmm-five

8,374 posts

244 months

Wednesday 12th June 2019
quotequote all
thenortherner said:
I'm insured through Moris - they do specific cover for TF days.

My car's covered for £12.5K, there's £1K excess and it cost £140. You get an early booking discount and they take note of previous track day experience when building the quote online so I'm guessing they take this into account.
Me too, but it is only 1st party cover.

You get a further discount for multi-day cover for the same trip.

MikeDrop

1,581 posts

129 months

Thursday 13th June 2019
quotequote all
mmm-five said:
thenortherner said:
I'm insured through Moris - they do specific cover for TF days.

My car's covered for £12.5K, there's £1K excess and it cost £140. You get an early booking discount and they take note of previous track day experience when building the quote online so I'm guessing they take this into account.
Me too, but it is only 1st party cover.

You get a further discount for multi-day cover for the same trip.
Yup I meant 3rd Party Cover. You just can't get it.

Although interesting that policies lately seem not to specifically exclude the 'Ring. I'll need to double check mine.