the ring, insurance questions

the ring, insurance questions

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Discussion

fastraxx

8,308 posts

71 months

Saturday 23rd May 2020
quotequote all
C70R said:
That seems pretty reasonable to me.
Yeah, its decent, ill continue to chance it, though rather than spunking thousands on specific track insurance.

C70R

8,430 posts

72 months

Saturday 23rd May 2020
quotequote all
fastraxx said:
C70R said:
That seems pretty reasonable to me.
Yeah, its decent, ill continue to chance it, though rather than spunking thousands on specific track insurance.
Fair play. Risk is a very personal thing.

After a few more trips I might feel similarly, but while I'm still relatively green at the Ring I'll keep insuring.

handbraketurn

1,343 posts

134 months

Friday 19th June 2020
quotequote all
I used these guys:

https://trackday.moris.co.uk

Was quite reasonable and you can also take out additional excess cover.

There is quite a few exclusions and I'm sure you'd not end up getting the full value of your car, but my thinking was, in the worst case, I'd be happy walking away with something, than nothing.

Barriers etc, on you, so try to avoid them. biggrin

ecain63

10,426 posts

143 months

Friday 19th June 2020
quotequote all
handbraketurn said:
I used these guys:

https://trackday.moris.co.uk

Was quite reasonable and you can also take out additional excess cover.

There is quite a few exclusions and I'm sure you'd not end up getting the full value of your car, but my thinking was, in the worst case, I'd be happy walking away with something, than nothing.

Barriers etc, on you, so try to avoid them. biggrin
I use Moris too. No impact on your road insurance if you claim and better excess levels compared to others. You do pay a little more with Moris, but you get what you pay for...... and I've claimed.

handbraketurn

1,343 posts

134 months

Sunday 21st June 2020
quotequote all
ecain63 said:
handbraketurn said:
I used these guys:

https://trackday.moris.co.uk

Was quite reasonable and you can also take out additional excess cover.

There is quite a few exclusions and I'm sure you'd not end up getting the full value of your car, but my thinking was, in the worst case, I'd be happy walking away with something, than nothing.

Barriers etc, on you, so try to avoid them. biggrin
I use Moris too. No impact on your road insurance if you claim and better excess levels compared to others. You do pay a little more with Moris, but you get what you pay for...... and I've claimed.
You're the first person I have ever known to claim and I know at least 10 people who've used.

Did they pay for it to be fixed or full value of car? How was the claim experience?

Ryvita

677 posts

178 months

Thursday 9th July 2020
quotequote all
I got rightly chewed out in another thread for making an incorrect statement about Ring and insurance. I'd like to do a quick thought experiment to help myself understand the position correctly. I've read through this link (https://trackday.moris.co.uk/news/nurburgring-insurance-public-days048#blog) but I note it's now seven years old. I've also read through this sticky on the subject and the following reflects my understanding as per that info, but I'm putting this out there as a straw man to be corrected.

(If we can reach consensus on the position currently, it might also be interesting to speculate on what the position will be post-Brexit but I'm not sure we'll get that far.)

So, here’s the hypothetical.

A British driver takes his private car to a Nurburgring Touristenfahrt. The car is insured via a UK policy with European cover. The policy has the standard disclaimer that excludes the Ring. The car has a valid MOT.

During the lap, the car suffers a catastrophic failure dropping fluids and crashing into the barrier. Unfortunately a following motorcyclist slips on the fluids, crashes and dies.

Now for the questions:

1) Is the damage to the driver's car covered? Not as part of his standard policy (because of the term excluding Ring use - and this has been ruled on by the insurance ombudsman) but he could have got a first party track specific cover if he wanted it.

2) Is the damage to barriers and cost of track closure covered? Not as part of his standard policy, some track policies apparently have barrier damage cover up to a limit.

3) Is the cost of recovery covered? Not as part of his standard policy. It is possible to join ADAC ahead of time (German breakdown equivalent to the RAC/AA) who provide the bongard lorry cover, in which case it would be covered as part of that.

4) Can you be prosecuted? If the car was in good working order with a valid MOT and you did not break any German rules of the road i.e. it was a spontaneous failure/accident, then no. If you were speeding in a restricted section, overtaking on the wrong side, or otherwise breaking the law then yes up to and including whatever the German equivalent of death by dangerous driving is.

5) Can you be sued by the motorcyclist's family? Yes, a civil case could be brought by a third party. The first party track specific cover will not cover this, but your standard policy actually DOES with heavy caveats. Quoting from Moris insurance: "by law the [standard policy] insurers will still have to pick up the tab – but beware - there is nothing in law stopping them coming after you for contribution or recovery. Waving your motor insurance certificate around to the man on the gate as you enter the circuit will technically be a valid policy of insurance for third party bodily injury or property damage - but just be aware of what you might be letting yourself into." There are no third party cover policies available which could mitigate this risk.

So, what of that lot is wrong? I'm sure some of it is, over to you.

C70R

8,430 posts

72 months

Thursday 9th July 2020
quotequote all
Ryvita said:
I got rightly chewed out in another thread for making an incorrect statement about Ring and insurance. I'd like to do a quick thought experiment to help myself understand the position correctly. I've read through this link (https://trackday.moris.co.uk/news/nurburgring-insurance-public-days048#blog) but I note it's now seven years old. I've also read through this sticky on the subject and the following reflects my understanding as per that info, but I'm putting this out there as a straw man to be corrected.

(If we can reach consensus on the position currently, it might also be interesting to speculate on what the position will be post-Brexit but I'm not sure we'll get that far.)

So, here’s the hypothetical.

A British driver takes his private car to a Nurburgring Touristenfahrt. The car is insured via a UK policy with European cover. The policy has the standard disclaimer that excludes the Ring. The car has a valid MOT.

During the lap, the car suffers a catastrophic failure dropping fluids and crashing into the barrier. Unfortunately a following motorcyclist slips on the fluids, crashes and dies.

Now for the questions:

1) Is the damage to the driver's car covered? Not as part of his standard policy (because of the term excluding Ring use - and this has been ruled on by the insurance ombudsman) but he could have got a first party track specific cover if he wanted it. ]No, unless specifically covered.

2) Is the damage to barriers and cost of track closure covered? Not as part of his standard policy, some track policies apparently have barrier damage cover up to a limit. ]No, unless specifically covered.

3) Is the cost of recovery covered? Not as part of his standard policy. It is possible to join ADAC ahead of time (German breakdown equivalent to the RAC/AA) who provide the bongard lorry cover, in which case it would be covered as part of that. No, unless specifically covered.

4) Can you be prosecuted? If the car was in good working order with a valid MOT and you did not break any German rules of the road i.e. it was a spontaneous failure/accident, then no. If you were speeding in a restricted section, overtaking on the wrong side, or otherwise breaking the law then yes up to and including whatever the German equivalent of death by dangerous driving is. Possibly, but there are few tangible examples of where this has happened

5) Can you be sued by the motorcyclist's family? Yes, a civil case could be brought by a third party. The first party track specific cover will not cover this, but your standard policy actually DOES with heavy caveats. Quoting from Moris insurance: "by law the [standard policy] insurers will still have to pick up the tab – but beware - there is nothing in law stopping them coming after you for contribution or recovery. Waving your motor insurance certificate around to the man on the gate as you enter the circuit will technically be a valid policy of insurance for third party bodily injury or property damage - but just be aware of what you might be letting yourself into." There are no third party cover policies available which could mitigate this risk. Probably, but there are few tangible examples of where this has happened

So, what of that lot is wrong? I'm sure some of it is, over to you.
Some answers.

Edited by C70R on Thursday 9th July 15:32