No salary on job adverts!

[James_B]

I don't think that any of my jobs have ever listed a salary beforehand. It's all been organised by negotiation once they decide that they want me to work there.

Most jobs have been tailored to what I can offer, so they couldn't iphave known the range before meeting me.

[bga]

I only list salary on entry level positions or those that have very rare skill set requirements and I may have to sponsor.

For experienced positions the pay is commensurate with the ability of the individual. If I am hiring for a "Senior Consultant" then the salary range would be from £40k - £75k. If I put that range in then every applicant will expect £75k regardless of their ability.

I can only get to a proper salary position after we have performed a technical interview and can benchmark someone. At that point we have the salary discussion based on the outcome of the benchmarking.

A decent candidate will look at the JD & the company and make their mind up if they are interested. Anyone who would overlook the role because it doesn't list salary is not going to be the right type of fit for us. Our business is in a niche field and everyone knows us, I appreciate that things may be different in non-niche industries where there are a larger number of openings that a candidate could apply for and salary information would be a useful thing to know.

[toon10]

The last time I agreed to a job interview without knowing the salary was many years ago. I was a software developer and had been made redundant when the place I was working at closed down. With a young family to support, I took every interview opportunity. I told the interview panel what salary I had been on and they offered me the job (for £1k less) but I wasn't going to argue with a mortgage and baby.

The company employed 2 other software developers at the same level to do the same job. They had a back log of projects and pressure was on the IT Manager. Fast forward 8 months and the back log was done so they didn't need 3 developers anymore. I was "asked" to resign. It turned out they were paying me £8k per year more than the other 2 guys. Our work and performance were all on par. They didn't specify the salary on the job ad as they wanted to get people quickly and were prepared to pay them the minimum they could get away with. Lesson learned.

[conanius]

I've been the hiring manager on roles where salary is, and is not listed. I've also worked in companies where everyone's salary band is listed, and where no one even knows what the bands are.

It's a difficult one as many people in here have commented, not least because advertising the range to existing employees can cause unrest.

When you are leading a team where the skill level varies significantly between those in the team, it's no surprise the salary varies too.

Unfortunately some people think they are being 'mugged off' if they aren't on top whack, even if they do lack the skills and experience the top end demands .... and even when the company is providing significant investment (training courses/mentoring/etc)

What I've learnt is you can't win either way. Positives and negatives exist whatever you do and people's opinion unsurprisingly is based on their own experiences/frustrations

I'm currently not advertising the salary on several roles we are recruiting for, and that's presented us with, in my opinion, a much wider range of candidates - good as I find personal fit is almost always key to small teams and I'm willing to take skill set hits to get in people who will work well in that team over simply playing accreditation and certification bingo.

[BlueHave]

Ransoman said:

I have always considered that if no salary is shown then the job doesn't actually exist and the recruiter is just trying to harvest CV's.

I've always thought this. I applied for a few jobs last week and instead of my CV going straight to the employer as it appeared from the job description. Instead I get some confirmation from some recruitment agency.

The problem I have with recruitment agencies is that I work in quite a specialist industry that requires a degree in the field and further skills and find that the majority of consultants that work for these agencies haven't a bloody clue what my line of work involves or the skills needed for these jobs they are finding candidates for.

I also find that if a job doesn't tell you how much the salary is then they are trying to get someone to do the job on the cheap or as close to minimum wage as possible.

I applied for a job last year which had all the bells and whistles, must have this , must have that. I have a phone conversation someone from the agency who openly admitted they where hoping to pay someone as close to £7.50 an hour as possible. If I wanted to work for such a poor wage then I could get a stress free job in Tesco.

Edited by BlueHave on Tuesday 30th May 04:24

[MitchT]

Ransoman said:

I have always considered that if no salary is shown then the job doesn't actually exist and the recruiter is just trying to harvest CV's.

In my experience it's usually because they want to know how tight they can get away with being. They might have a budget of up to £40k, but they won't tell you that in case your last employer was paying you £25k 'cause they can probably get away with offering you £28k. I've seen numerous job ads that ask you to state your current salary but give no indication of what their salary band is ... like I was born yesterday!

[hairyben]

bad company said:

deckster said:

Not rubbish at all. The recruiter doesn't care about the candidate, they care about fostering a long-term relationship with the employer.

If they can place high-quality people into the employer for a lower salary cost, then they are much more likely to get repeat business. That's worth a lot more to them than an extra grand on a single commission.

That's not the way recruiters work at all. Do you have any evidence to back up your theory?

Good recruiters always bear in mind that satisfied candidates become senior managers / directors of client firms. Then the very same people become employers.

Professionalism depends on industry, I remember a hays montrose RC asking me to go back to a site for a couple of days to help them out... for free... leaving paying work... and why? the reason they needed helping out being the boss'd spot fired me in a tantrum a month previous and tried to get the labourers he'd had working with me to complete the electrics. and they'd ballsed it, naturally. Add to that they still owed £1k+ back wages they had no intention of paying, and they were only using hays as every other agy had blacklisted them for backdoor dealing... and yet hays RC was talking to me like I'm a little dumb bh all like "hey pop along there for me and I'll chat to them about these wages huh?"

bad company said:

It's illegal for recruiters to advertise non existent jobs. I'm not saying it never happens but it's rare.

Happens all the time mate - see my first sentence above - there were a couple of agys in the london that used to advertise tasty phantom jobs, only for "that ones all filled mate but we have this other one..." Every single week. Plus a flatmate of mine worked for an agy (grunt work but niche area so wont say) and he would put fake jobs out if there just to fill time/build lists of who was looking, and was told to do so by his boss so they looked busy

[MitchT]

Just when you think you've seen it all, you come across a job ad stating "fantastic benefits such as a new 27 iMac". So, not having to provide your own computer is now a perk! Creative sector, of course

[BlueHave]

MitchT said:

Disastrous said:

I've noticed though that the attitude of the job market seems to have changed a bit in my sector at least (media/creative). There seems to be a general feeling that you should be so grateful to be offered a role that the salary is irrelevant and instead they pack job adverts with senseless st about how there's an office dog and you get biscuits and beer on Friday afternoons and stuff.

So true!

Nail on head, the creative sector has been like that for years. They pay some of the lowest salaries around for jobs that require a professional qualification and a decent amount of talent. Problem is that whereas in IT or finance a competitive starting salary is the norm. The creative sector expect someone to work 40 hours a week as an intern for three months before getting them to beg for a permanent position at the end. In the end most of them get some other sucker in for another three months.

Edited by BlueHave on Tuesday 25th July 02:09

[Countdown]

bad company said:

It's illegal for recruiters to advertise non existent jobs. I'm not saying it never happens but it's rare.

Could you point out which law it is that the RC would be breaking?

I have seen companies advertising roles which we have advertised AND already appointed to, so the role no longer exists. I have also seen them advertising other roles where I know that the Employer advertised directly, has interviewed, and made an offer.

[MitchT]

BlueHave said:

Nail on head, the creative sector has been like that for years. They pay some of the lowest salaries around for jobs that require a professional qualification and a decent amount of talent.

Part of the issue for me, as a graphic designer, is that whoever I'm working for at any given time tends to require a specific type of work doing that draws on certain skills from a wider pool of abilities. In order to keep yourself mobile in your profession you need to maintain the full spread of skills, not just the ones that your current employer requires you to use, so you need a decent Mac and Adobe Creative Cloud at home. Keeping all of that running, along with various e-learning courses to keep your skills current, can run to well in excess of £100/month, which would be fine if you were pulling £40k+ like other skilled professionals, but in the £20k-£30k bracket that most graphic designers are in it's crippling. I enjoy the work but I'm seriously thinking of re-training to do something else as I'm 42 and I'd like, at some point, to be able to afford to start living like an adult!

[alorotom]

I was accused of wasting a companies time and 'blacklisted' by them for this lack of salary palava

They came to me and asked me to come meet the exec team and speak with them about an opportunity they thought I could help with

I went along intrigued and all was well. They wanted me to meet their CEO the following day and he was flying in just for it ... I said ok but before proceeding I wanted to know what the package was so as no to waste my or their time further

They refused so I pushed them and they then provided the details - the salary was a solid £20k less than current

Told them I wasn't interested at that rate and thanked them for considering me - I then get a disgruntled aggressive call from the CFO demanding to know why I dare waste their time and how unprofessional it was to discuss money at such early points in the discussions

I simply replied that thy had indeed wasted my time and I had been total transparent about my expectations and they actually led me astray and hung up.

I stewed on this for a few days then contacted the CEO directly to advise of his CFOs behaviour, professionalism and low moral value - he was disgusted with his team and apologised profusely and asked to meet and discuss.

2mths on the CFO was fired for doing the exact same thing to a friend for the same position they wanted me in!!

[bad company]

Countdown said:

bad company said:

It's illegal for recruiters to advertise non existent jobs. I'm not saying it never happens but it's rare.

Could you point out which law it is that the RC would be breaking?

I have seen companies advertising roles which we have advertised AND already appointed to, so the role no longer exists. I have also seen them advertising other roles where I know that the Employer advertised directly, has interviewed, and made an offer.

it's in the Employment Agencies Act. Don't recall which bit.

In the scenarios you outline the agency would simply respond saying they didn't know the jobs no longer existed. As long as they advertised believing that there was a job and having been instructed by the employer they will be in the clear.

[BlueHave]

bad company said:

Countdown said:

bad company said:

It's illegal for recruiters to advertise non existent jobs. I'm not saying it never happens but it's rare.

Could you point out which law it is that the RC would be breaking?

I have seen companies advertising roles which we have advertised AND already appointed to, so the role no longer exists. I have also seen them advertising other roles where I know that the Employer advertised directly, has interviewed, and made an offer.

it's in the Employment Agencies Act. Don't recall which bit.

In the scenarios you outline the agency would simply respond saying they didn't know the jobs no longer existed. As long as they advertised believing that there was a job and having been instructed by the employer they will be in the clear.

I have been in companies that advertised jobs that had already been filled from within and they still went to be bother of having candidates attend several interviews when they had no chance of getting it.

I have also applied for jobs which I know from a trusted insider did not exist and it was just to get your details on their system.

Every recruitment agency from the smallest right up to the the top seem to be up to their tricks.

[4x4Tyke]

If no salary is displayed then company will not get my CV, in my experience they do this because they know the salary are very much below market rates. I'm not going to waste my time any more.

BlueHave said:

Every recruitment agency from the smallest right up to the the top seem to be up to their tricks.

My experience is the same, its very common in IT recruitment.

[Prof Prolapse]

4x4Tyke said:

If no salary is displayed then company will not get my CV, in my experience they do this because they know the salary are very much below market rates. I'm not going to waste my time any more.

Fair enough if that's your experience, but that really isn't always true for all industries. In pharmaceuticals it's pretty common for reasons I'm not sure of.

I think I said this earlier, but a decent recruiter will normally be able to give you a ball park. It's only a phone call, and they're just trying to make a living after all.

Not that I haven't blocked a few over the years for being retards.

[boyse7en]

Just been looking at an "exciting" opportunity to be graphic designer for a new educational company.

Salary is "competitive"
Holidays are "substantial"

The only benefits they actually specify are that there is an "Olympic table tennis table" and that the offices have views of the sea (at quite some distance away, knowing the area)

[bad company]

4x4Tyke said:

If no salary is displayed then company will not get my CV, in my experience they do this because they know the salary are very much below market rates. I'm not going to waste my time any more.

BlueHave said:

Every recruitment agency from the smallest right up to the the top seem to be up to their tricks.

My experience is the same, its very common in IT recruitment.

As I said previously the recruiter may not have been given a salary guide.

[monoloco]

bad company said:

4x4Tyke said:

If no salary is displayed then company will not get my CV, in my experience they do this because they know the salary are very much below market rates. I'm not going to waste my time any more.

BlueHave said:

Every recruitment agency from the smallest right up to the the top seem to be up to their tricks.

My experience is the same, its very common in IT recruitment.

As I said previously the recruiter may not have been given a salary guide.

ditto what BadCompany says. Despite the slagging off large parts of the sector well and truly deserve, there are a few of us recruiters who are decent/honest/professional and know what we're doing. We know that job ads with no salary get far fewer applications -for exactly the various reasons/beliefs people are ranting about above. Given the choice we will always put three vital details in an advert: Job Title, Location and Salary. However, half the time the end client doesn't have any idea what salary they will have to pay so the recruiter has to guess or leave it out, or in many cases the end client expressly forbids the agency from advertising a salary as it may cause problems internally if one of their existing staff sees it.

As someone else pointed out above, agencies usually work for a fee based on percentage salary offered to the candidate so its very much in the recruiters interest to get you as good a pay deal as possible so they are absolutely on your side on that !

My advice: if the job looks interesting and you fit the requirements, don't get on your high horse and refuse to apply for what could be your ideal and well paid job -just phone or email the agency and ask about the salary.

[Gillet]

Gotta agree this is the most frustrating part of job hunting, actually worse than not quoting a salary is stating 'competitive' - firstly I'll be the judge of whether or not it's competitive and secondly how would they respond if I sent a Cv that stated my experience as 'competitive'? I'd never hear back.

As someone said employment is a pretty simple contract for exchanging my services for a salary, the more you pay me the harder I'll work, the harder I work the more I expect to be paid.....it really is that simple surely